Looking to start doing software dev. on Linux... need advice

jqpdev · 04-10-2010, 08:13 PM

I prefer to use IDEs because I like the code completion, design tools, syntax highlighting, tool tips, online help and other productivity features that they provide. I'm pretty familiar with compiling, linking, executing, and debugging applications and would rather delegate make file editing/maintenance to a software component than spend time on it.

I get your point about not being locked into a specific product or tool set. However, if the tool set meets one's needs then being locked in doesn't matter. If I don't use non-standard language features, in the case of C/C++, then I am free to switch between tools.

As far as lowering the developer's learning curve goes (aka dumbing-down), I see that as good thing. However, I agree that no product or tool set should disable the developer from getting at the details of the compile/link/execute/debug process. Hiding mundane details of the compile/link/execute/debug process I consider a good feature.

I was a big fan of Borland's products, including the Kylix product. Borland's products allowed the developer to compile, link, run from the command line and they included a make utility. However, the company is basically dead and Kylix died on the proverbial operating table many years ago.

I will be spending some time with the command line tools to make sure I'm familiar with them (no pun intended). However, I would like to have the option of using an IDE for speed, productivity, convenience reasons. When I started programming Linux didn't exist.

jqpdev · 04-10-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTK358

Another way to do it (this is the way Make usually does it):

Code:

gcc -c source1.c
gcc -c source2.c
gcc -c source3.c
gcc source1.o source2.o source3.o -o myprogram

That way, you don't have to recompile all the sources, just the ones you changed.

Simply compile only the changed sources and relink. Let's say you compiled the above example and modified source2.c afterwards. make will detect that only source2.c is newer than source2.o, and it will run just these commands:

Code:

gcc -c source2.c
gcc source1.o source2.o source3.o -o myprogram

More info: http://www.eng.hawaii.edu/Tutor/Make/

The above would be correct in how the make utility works.

graemef · 04-10-2010, 09:23 PM

Well let's hear it for the IDE...

There is nothing wrong with using an IDE lots of very good software has been written by developers using an IDE; it's really just a matter of preference. That said I would urge you to understand the different tools that are used within the development environment so that you will understand when you may need to jump out of the comfort zone of the IDE to using the underlying tools. Also learn about tools that are not part of the environment, Linux provides a lot of extremely good tools that support software development and understanding these will be beneficial in your endeavours.

There is a sticky thread on IDEs in this forum that you may want to look at.

For much of my C++ development I use Qt Creator, because I tend to use the Qt library which is a cross platform C++ library with good GUI support, you may want to give that a gander, but I would suggest that you need to be familiar with the C++ language before jumping into the Qt libraries.

I've not used Dreamweaver so I can't give you a good answer but you may want to take a look at Bluefish, I think that it support HTML, CSS and XML but I'm not certain how good its support for server side scripting languages is (such as PHP). My big gripe with Dreamweaver (and front page) is that too many people can use it but have no idea about html, learn html, learn CSS and you will be fine.

MySQL comes with some good GUI tools to manage your database MYSQL Administrator and MTSQL Query Browser, take a look at those.

jqpdev · 04-10-2010, 10:35 PM

Thanks graemef...

I hopped into this forum looking for specific information. In my quest for the info. I overlooked the stickied thread at the top, but I found it after my last post.

Its great that the community member created the list in the stickied thread. However, I was hoping to get some objective reviews/critiques on the IDEs and their features. My intent was to make an objective, informed choice about the tools I use.

There are definite advantages to using integrated tool sets. As I mentioned before I prefer to use an IDE. I will spend enough time to learn vi and Emacs so that I can be proficient outside of a GUI environment when its needed, but I do not intent to spent the majority of my development time with those tools. Emacs is powerful but lacks the feature set I'm looking for in a developer tool. I find it irritating, when working with non-integrated tools, that I have to learn all of the peculiarities of each tool. Standardization has many great benefits and I'm generally a fan of standards... or controlled chaos ;o)
However, I do not support a one-size-fits-all approach.

I will have take a look at the Qt Creator product.

MTK358 · 04-11-2010, 05:23 AM

Nobody said you must use vi or Emacs.

There is nothing wrong with using GUI editors like gedit or Kate, and they have syntax highlighting, too.

graemef · 04-12-2010, 04:48 AM

The tools I was think of were not so much the editor but the compiler, make files debugger and so on.

Learn about some of the gcc options such as those needed for debugging, profiling and optimisation.
Know what is going on in the make file and for example see how the IDE makes conditional makes depending upon whether it is a debug or release version
Understand how the debugger works and where the results are not to be relied upon (Such as some pointer dereferencing)

jqpdev · 04-12-2010, 06:37 PM

Thanks guys...

@MTK358:
You are correct no one indicated that I *must* use vi and/or emacs. Kate and gEdit look great and I have considered both.

@graemef:
I checked out Qt Creator which also looks great but it is too expensive. Currently my programming time on Linux is my own time and unpaid so, I can't justify the cost of Qt.

I grabbed a book from shelf of a friend "Linux Programming Unleashed" by: Kurt Wall, Mark Watson, and Mark Whitis. The book is a bit dated, but free. It looks like it will help me get started gcc, gdb, make, etc.

Can you point me to where I can find out more about where the compiler and/or debugger should not be trusted?

MTK358 · 04-12-2010, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jqpdev

You are correct no one indicated that I *must* use vi and/or emacs. Kate and gEdit look great and I have considered both.

Kate even has a built-in terminal.

Gedit has one available as an add-on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jqpdev

I checked out Qt Creator which also looks great but it is too expensive.

Qt creator is free!

graemef · 04-12-2010, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jqpdev

I checked out Qt Creator which also looks great but it is too expensive. Currently my programming time on Linux is my own time and unpaid so, I can't justify the cost of Qt.

You can get a community version of the software. This comes without a cost but I believe that the restriction is that you need to release your code under a LGPL license.

jqpdev · 04-13-2010, 12:19 AM

Thanks for the correction... The right side navigation menu on the following page doesn't mention the LGPL download option:
http://qt.nokia.com/products/developer-tools

Sergei Steshenko · 04-13-2010, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jqpdev

Thanks for the correction... The right side navigation menu on the following page doesn't mention the LGPL download option:
http://qt.nokia.com/products/developer-tools

http://qt.nokia.com/products/licensing :

Quote:

This version of Qt is appropriate for the development of Qt applications (proprietary or open source) provided you can comply with the terms and conditions contained in the GNU LGPL version 2.1.

If you look into http://get.qt.nokia.com/qtcreator/qt...-1.3.1-src.zip , you'll see it's LGPL.

jqpdev · 04-13-2010, 01:58 AM

I created a simple test file called Helloworldtest.cpp with gedit... may as well start with a newb test of my fresh Debian v5.04 install. Here is the Helloworldtest.cpp

Code:

#include <iostream>

int main()
{
    cout << "hello world";
    return 0;
}

After a little hunting I found g++ in /usr/bin. So I typed in:

Code:

/usr/bin/g++ ./Helloworldtest.cpp -o ./testhello.exe

I get the following:

Code:

./hellotest.cpp: In function ‘int main()’:
./hellotest.cpp:5: error: ‘cout’ was not declared in this scope

0.o

I know my c++ is rusty, but I'm really not seeing what is wrong in the file. I tried changing the include statement to:
#include <iostream.h>

but it didn't fix the problem. So, I grabbed the Qt LGPL download and installed it. I created a console project and added my Helloworldtest.cpp to the project. I attempted to build the project using the original include statement but Qt says:

Code:

‘cout’ was not declared in this scope

which is what g++ said. So... If I recreate the simple helloworld.cpp file on a windows box I'm pretty sure it will compile/run just fine with only ansi C++ options enabled.

There is something I'm obviously missing... anyone care to point out the obvious to me. Thanks.

Sergei Steshenko · 04-13-2010, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jqpdev

I created a simple test file called Helloworldtest.cpp with gedit... may as well start with a newb test of my fresh Debian v5.04 install. Here is the Helloworldtest.cpp

Code:

#include <iostream>

int main()
{
    cout << "hello world";
    return 0;
}

After a little hunting I found g++ in /usr/bin. So I typed in:

Code:

/usr/bin/g++ ./Helloworldtest.cpp -o ./testhello.exe

I get the following:

Code:

./hellotest.cpp: In function ‘int main()’:
./hellotest.cpp:5: error: ‘cout’ was not declared in this scope

0.o

I know my c++ is rusty, but I'm really not seeing what is wrong in the file. I tried changing the include statement to:
#include <iostream.h>

but it didn't fix the problem. So, I grabbed the Qt LGPL download and installed it. I created a console project and added my Helloworldtest.cpp to the project. I attempted to build the project using the original include statement but Qt says:

Code:

‘cout’ was not declared in this scope

which is what g++ said. So... If I recreate the simple helloworld.cpp file on a windows box I'm pretty sure it will compile/run just fine with only ansi C++ options enabled.

There is something I'm obviously missing... anyone care to point out the obvious to me. Thanks.

Something like

Code:

using namespace std;

.

graemef · 04-13-2010, 02:05 AM

The iostream header file includes the cout method in the std namespace. (In fact all standard library classes method etc are held in the std namespace)

You can solve this in several ways:

change cout to std::cout
add using std::cout in the main function to say that you are going to be using the std version of cout
add using namespace std to say that you will be using the standard library version of all functions.

I would recommend either of the first two.

jqpdev · 04-14-2010, 11:31 AM

Thanks guys... seems that I have some reading to do to get up to speed. I completely forgot the scope limitations imposed by namespaces. To the interest of getting up to speed, I picked up "The C++ Programming Language: Special Edition" by Stroustrup.