Hi. I have come to the time of my life where I'm looking at university courses (Australia.)

So, looking at some courses that look good- and one of the subjects happens to be Visual Basic programming.

I know that it is a proprietary piece of junk (convince me otherwise?)

So, no need to cover that side of the argument. What I want to know is: is it worth learning and why.

thanks.

titanium_geek

As per my thinking, If you are planning to make applications for Windows in the near future, go for it. But specifically, I wud recommend you to go for VB.NET as that framework is ruling most of the things in Windows in the near future.

And to add to your surprise!....I Have Visual Basic 6. 0 (VB) as one of my subjects in my curriculum! (Mumbai City, Maharashtra State, India)

Yes, it is worth learning if you need to know event driven programs, simplictiy of applications, learn a good RAD tool, play around with mouse and code tweaks. it is one good cake to have a taste of!

If you're working in a Windows shop or one that has PC Windows clients, VB.NET can be useful for prototyping and small projects that need to complete fast.

VB 6.0 is pure legacy right now - MS is going to deep six support for it at the end of the year. And this is one of the BIGGEST problems with MS. Planned obsolesence.

I've been a developer for a very long time - most languages hang around and are used for new development for about 7-10 years. C, C++, BASIC (different flavors), and COBOL all have lasted longer than that. VB has been around for about 14 years and is still used for new development. All versions up thru 6.0 are basically history.

I agree that VB6 is most definitely not worth learning. I haven't used VB .Net, but from what I hear it's like a completely different language. But if you are going to learn VB.Net, you could just as easily learn C# instead...

when i started my first job lots of people didn't consider vb as a programming language but it is. You often see it for quick and dirty applications with ms access database(Most of the time it is VBA).
For windows only C# is good but for other platforms think about c/c++, java, perl...

Your better off learning something else in my opinion, because VB isn't the type of thing you'll need a class to teach you.

Your better off spending your time and money learning something that is harder to pick up. If you are a decent programmer you can pick up VB in a matter of days if you need it for a project.

As jtshaw suggests...
I agree..


You can pick up VB, if you have handled windows Applications, Used GNU/Linux a bit and configured things ....

Its easier to pick up on your own if you have done some programming and understood some basics of event driven programming.

Consider learning what the market in Australia Demands!

thanks for all the responses. It's really frustrating when you use the keyword linux and get VB in the same course description. Ah... it's only one class in one semester. I know java, so I really can't see the point but oh well.

The Australian market demands teachers, actually. and linux.
Any aussies out ther who can tell me how they got into the tech world? (or anyone, really)

titanium_geek

GACK! looking at the linux programming class prerequisites: VB programming. ARGH!!

but then, looking at it all, I realize that it's probably being used to teach programming in a non code way- you know that idealistic way of programming were you design flawless code yadda yadda . :0)

anythoughts on VB being a simple language that teaches how to program, not howto-program-code?

I think a lot of universities do that- the university that did stuff at our school here had an even more bizzare language to teach programming. At least VB is somewhat useable. :0)

titanium_geek

VB is worthless. Why? I´ll split the arguments in VB6 or less and VB.NET:

VB 6 or less:

- Not portable

- Requires the heavy ugly vb60run.dll

- Cannot call many calling conventions / cannot link to many c or pascal library because it does not support lot´s of data structure. It can´t even link to many Win API functions that use not so common data types.

- Depends on OCXs to do ..... anything. OCXs are done in Delphi or c, so VB keeps being useless

- Frustration, you can´t do anything usefull out of it.

- Needs to be interpreted by VB60run.dll, so it´s slower then normal compiled code.

- Anything you can do on VB can be done on c++ or object pascal. The contrary is not true.

VB.NET:

- Not portable

- Requires the ultra-heavy 20MB framework

- Slow (yes, it´s slow)

- Depends on a framework that is changing constantly and 2.0 version may not even be compatible with

- Anything you can do on VB can be done on c++ or object pascal. The contrary is not true.

- I doubt it can link to any c or object pascal library

I started learning programming with VB. It´s fun, but it is also useless. Learn a real programming language. VB is a lie. It pretends to be a programming language, but it´s not..... programming languages must be usefull.

I feel, its more of a event driven and a RAD tool!!!...
You CAN'T say's it a programming language ......

VB is only helping you to make BEST small and quick applications!!!

Dont pay for learning VB ......(repeat!)....

I agree with everything sekelsenmat said about VB ... but I still love it and I still use VB6.0 whenever it's applicable as "the right tool for the right job"?

When is it "useful"?

I absolutely think of VB as the GUI equivalent of shell scripting. As "glue" when you need a few pushbuttons, some database lookup ... and something more than a .bat file, but less than a full blown application.

VB is a great way to throw together a GUI if you need a quick'n'dirty utility on MS Windows.

On the other hand, VB will teach you little (if anything), about good programming. I'd look elsewhere for that...

IMHO .. PSM

Don't expect to be taught at Uni.
You learn by yourself.

my advice:
The main thing to do if going for a course is choose a nice place to go. (no, really)
Get on a course that gives you a *work placement*. That's where you will
learn most of what will be useful.


More ranting:
=========

Don't expect to be magically taught. Lots of lecturers are just there on a free-ride on the gravy train.

University doesn't teach you much.
Most lecturers don't read code submitted and haven't got a clue what's what.

People hack and copy code, if you write crap code, or copy someone else's
and if I write good code, but both give the correct output we'll both get A+

They waste time teaching project management (HAHAHAHA) because it's
woolly and easy, as *if* anybody will give a 22 year old from college a project to run!!!!

The main thing Uni' does, is gives you a foot in the door.

But the problem is: You can build extremely quick small GUI App using other RAD environments.

Here are 5:

- Java NetBeans

- Borland Delphi

- Lazarus and FreePascal

- Borland C++

- Eclipse (on Java mode)

All of them use the "glue" a few pushbuttons. At least Delphi and Lazarus can do the: glue Database component, then glue dataaware component, set their properties in the property editor and BUM! Instant database app. (In Delphi this will work for lot's of databases, Lazarus supports less databases this easely)

And in all those cases you get to use a powerfull programming language. So I'd say VB is for the missguided. Also VB is not free, so I'd say it's quite worse then Java NetBeans, eclipse or Lazarus. These are all free and build windows apps.

I find it bad that I am yet to find a good (drag and drop components) RAD environment for c++ on Linux... Most environments I found lack something.

That is so true. When I changed from VB to Delphi I was completely lost .... there were pointers ... zillions of different data structures, packed and non packed datas, calling conventions for functions, inheritance, rssss ... it was lot's of fun.

ok: conclusion: it(VB) sucks.

My problem is that the courses I am looking at have VB as a prerequisite for second semester and oh-so-much-more-cooler classes like linux programming.

Question: would attempting the java cert at 16 and only missing a pass by 10 questions be enough to fill the pre req? Howabout the AP collegeboard computerscience tests- again, java- they are attempted only... because they aren't self-study friendly. I know java, I just can't pass the tests...

My hope is that, since the class structure is a guide only- by the time I start Feb 2006 that they will have picked something better, like python (java is already included in the course, as is C++ and a bunch of linux stuff.)

ranting as always...
titanium_geek