My opinion in regards to the topic "Populate the HCL" in "Hardware" section.

Asking people to populate the HCL list won't do much because it bears a very small power.

It's like asking a smoker to stop smoking.

Instead, I'd rather help people to run games on Linux.
Again, Linux developers are overlooking how important games are for Linux' popularity.

My explanation:
To run games on Linux, you can use WINE, but it's too complicated, or it doesn't support many games, that in turn involve hundreds, or thousands of players (like MMORPGs).
Here is a chain reaction:
A gamer likes Linux, but he (sorry ladies :) knows his favorite MMORPG won't run on Linux, or he doesn't know how to run it there.
Linux developers are focused on other things than games, therefore there is less help in regards to running games on Linux.
But once Linux becomes more game-friendly, gamers will realize that it's cheaper (lower system requirements, lower price of OS itself etc.), more flexible then the proprietary operating systems, and that they can share their ideas with other Linux peers.
Then, they will stop fueling the proprietary market by buying less of the latest hardware, that that market promotes.
In turn, the hardware manufacturers will have to adjust, by offering support for Linux, and that's where we're getting to populating the HCL.
One gamer can be very powerful as far as pulling peers to a new game, platform, or hardware.

Whole guilds and clans of gamers from all around the world are moving all over the internet, across different games, and different servers in search for the best place for them.
But of course, who would worry about stupid games...

Just my two cents.

I think you misunderstand the purpose of the HCL.
The purpose of the HCL is not to "force" manufacturers to make linux compatible hardware.

The HCL is there so that a linux user who finds that a particular piece of hardware works well with linux, can share that information with other linux users. Buying a new laptop ? Has it been listed in the HCL ? Need a new printer|webcam|scanner ? Is it in the HCL ?
Unless people share their experiences with different hardware, we are all taking a chance when we expect something to work with linux.

Smoking is irrelevant. Power is irrelevant.

If something works well and it's not in the list, then add it. No games can even be tested without hardware that works, so let's establish a list of compatible hardware before we start dreaming about what we're going to do with it.

I understand exactly what HCL is for.The problem is that you will not achieve this by politely asking people to do it: you need to offer them some incentive.

Why do you think did you have to ask people to contribute to HCL in the first place? No incentive, that's why.

I actually suggested that posting on the HCL should give people an automatic rep point, but that wasnt taken up. Its not much but its a minor incentive.

But why on earth are you bringing up the HCL in relation to gaming on linux? They are in _no_way_connected_. Even if they were, just getting more games to run with linux distros (either native or with WINE, etc.) it will not change the need for the HCL. Even if every game in existance were to suddenly, magically run with linux distros, that wont make every bit of hardware otu there run with linux. Not every bit of hardware would have linux support added even if that happened...there is a lot of hardware made for business use, they dont give a hang about gamers or gaming.

Rather than try to confuse matters by talking about the HCL, try doing something constructive- email some game companies and hassle them to make linux native games. Make a petition for gamers to sign asking for linux native games. Ask Jeremy if the site can have a 'WINE CL and setup guide'.

kuser, don't get me wrong but if YOU need an incentive to populate HCL, then say it. Please, don't speak for other people. Perhaps, you're judging other people by YOUR standards. I, for one, and hundreds of others didn't need any incentive to make entries in HCL. It's about sharing your knowledge/findings to benefit others. It's the open-source spirit and let's keep it that way.

2 members found this post helpful.

In my first post here, I already said what incentive I and other gamers need, not only to populate HCL, but to contribute more to Linux altogether.

Of course I'm judging others from my perspective because it's not possible not to judge others from one's perspective: everyone is a little biased.
In this topic, I tried to picture the point of view of a gamer towards Linux, and contributing to it in the form of populating the HCL.

Better games support -> greater probability that gamers will contribute to linux.

Upon reading your OP Still don't know what populating HCL has to do with games. If you want members' responses you'd need to be slightly clearer . Additionally, as one of the posters above, my impression is (judging only by what you've written here) that you seem to misunderstand the purpose of HCL.

I made a draft picturing my idea using Open Office 3.3.
Link to Open Office ODG file:
gamers.odg - 0.01MB
Link to the same diagram, but in PNG format:
gamers.png - 0.07MB
For some reason, zshare removed my files, so here are new links:
http://www.mediafire.com/?v55xufazgt...o5ghgbja91n3p1

We...OK, I wont speak for others.....I understood your idea from the beginning. A cute graphic doesnt change anything.

I still see no connection between the HCL and gaming on linux. Reasons stated above.

As an aside, I think you havent thought about this hard enough. nVidia and AMD/ATI already provide video card drivers for linux. Well, there is 'optimus' problems and some issues with switchable graphics, but what sort of gamer is getting optimus laptops or switchable graphics?

So the main people who you need for support as a gamer are already doing the job.

Yeah, intel, AMD/ATi and nVidia would love that idea. :|

Its wrong anyway, you're not goping to play 'metro 2033' @ 1920x1080 at high detail with full AA/AF on your old GT8800, no mater how much lower the OS hardawre requirements are.

Newer games need more GPU power, and that is not stopping any time soon.

What if Red Hat started manufacturing graphics cards?

You cant just 'start manufacturing graphics cards'. Well, you sort of can, but then you would just be buying ATI/AMD or nVidia GPUs (or Matrox, S3, etc. if you want to make video cards that no gamer cares about). Then mounting them onto your cards.

That would make this hypothetical 'Red Hat Hardware' in the same situation as everybody else curretly making 'gamers' cards.

There is no way that Red Hat could just pull a rabbit out of their Fedora and start making competitive GPUs themselves. Even companies like Matrox that were once giants and have spent huge amounts of money on R+D, had very experienced engineers, etc.. have dopped from the gamers market. Red Hat hasnt got the experience.....and even if they did, they would probably be outspent, outsold and outclassed by ATI/AMD and nVidia.