guru's infected threads - I am voting against reputation system

I can ask question like that: are LQ is autocracy with @jeremy as autocrat and 'guru's, 'LQ veterans' as nobles? If yes then it is clear now that any newcomer, at first have to learn where is its place in this system. Posting, it earns higher position, the benefit is that from that higher position, it would have privilege to giving lessons about 'LQ culture', that 'jeremy rules here' and so on, so newcomer at some point might have impression that 'jeremy' is not a person, but incarnation of all the wisodm gathered here.

I would transliterate and tell 'praise jeremy'. No offense. One of the key word here is 'respect'. To respect someone because of that person impressive count of posts and long tail or green, greener points ? I understand @jeremy created LQ, but also Americans journeyed to the moon, Egyptians built pyramids and so on. Is anyone here feeling particular respect to Egyptians? I am rather only impressed that's all.

Originally Posted by igadoter Posting, it earns higher position, the benefit is that from that higher position, it would have privilege to giving lessons about 'LQ culture', that 'jeremy rules here' and so on

What makes you think the post count has anything to do with that? There's nothing preventing a newcomer from giving you a valuable advice and putting you on the right track with their first post if you need it.

Personally, I like post counts and age of account because it gives an idea of which are people who like to post on forums (like myself) and those who only post when they're either in need of help or feel they can give excellent help. Doesn't mean anything, really, and I could do without it, but I'm curious that way.
As for reputation points -- I like them because they let one know when help has been given. I like it that my inquisitiveness has helped somebody.
But, all in all, all these things are just "statistics" and, as most people know, one can always lie with statistics so they should only be used as a rough guide.
I think the idea that newcomers may be intimidated by older posters with higher post and reputation counts suggests that the newcomers "have something to prove". If somebody comes here for help, as I have done, they post in the hope that somebody here does know more than them -- otherwise why post? If people want to help then I would hope they would post in order to try to help the person asking the question and not to in some way prove themselves.
The example earlier regarding older members coming in after a newer poster, repeating what they said but with a little embellishment, then "taking the credit" is a good one -- if that does happen, why be bothered by it? If you're here to help, why care who "gets the credit"? And, frankly, how do you know who "got the credit" in the eyes of the original poster?

Originally Posted by dugan From the fact that I answered a question of his by giving him a search string to punch into google. And it was a specific search string that I tried first, not "go google it" or "do a general web search".

If this babysitting happened to me then it happened to many others before. I am not a kind of rare species here. The only difference is that, at this day, I felt bad to be treated as baby, and I "lost my sense of humor".

The only question is what to do next. Take this as "bad day of strange guy from strange country" or to treat this more
seriously ? Difficult decision, but luckily good ideas are always coming back. So if there is something valuable here,
it will appear again, but then no one will remeber this thread.

Originally Posted by igadoter If this babysitting happened to me then it happened to many others before. I am not a kind of rare species here. The only difference is that, at this day, I felt bad to be treated as baby, and I "lost my sense of humor". The only question is what to do next. Take this as "bad day of strange guy from strange country" or to treat this more seriously ? Difficult decision, but luckily good ideas are always coming back. So if there is something valuable here, it will appear again, but then no one will remeber this thread.

What is wrong with what was done?

I mean, were you hoping for an education thanks to a member of the forum?

Leading someone is not wrong, teaching people and giving people no chance to learn to research causes further harm.

Originally Posted by 273 If somebody comes here for help, as I have done, they post in the hope that somebody here does know more than them -- otherwise why post?

I would rather emphasize the idea of working in a team as efficient way for solving problems. "Leader" is not necessary
most knowledgable person, but most organized, able to make the team to work as team. So think about thread like "team made on the fly" to solve problem.

Originally Posted by 273 The example earlier regarding older members coming in after a newer poster, repeating what they said but with a little embellishment, then "taking the credit" is a good one -- if that does happen, why be bothered by it? If you're here to help, why care who "gets the credit"?

For me it is completely ridiculous. First if something was explained why to explain this yet again, in the same manner ?
Gratification is probably about psychology. There are two persons both telling the same, but you know that one of this person is "Linux admin, who when had ten years was given its first UNIX machine to play". What about that second person? Does anyone knows who is it ?

Originally Posted by igadoter I would rather emphasize the idea of working in a team as efficient way for solving problems. "Leader" is not necessary most knowledgable person, but most organized, able to make the team to work as team. So think about thread like "team made on the fly" to solve problem.

Where did I mention a "leader" I said that somebody asking for help wants help from somebody who knows more than them. Yes, collaboration is good, but if both parties know nothing then they can't help each other much.

Originally Posted by igadoter For me it is completely ridiculous. First if something was explained why to explain this yet again, in the same manner ? Gratification is probably about psychology. There are two persons both telling the same, but you know that one of this person is "Linux admin, who when had ten years was given its first UNIX machine to play". What about that second person? Does anyone knows who is it ?

Perhaps you care more about "recognition" than you ought to then? Perhaps you would rather gain gratification from recognition rather than helping somebody? I am not suggesting that the situation is optimal just that caring about recognition rather than helping is, perhaps, selfish.

I also find it funny that this thread comes from you asking a question that it was impossible to answer, then complaining because somebody tried to give you a start in finding out.

Originally Posted by igadoter If this babysitting happened to me then it happened to many others before. I am not a kind of rare species here. The only difference is that, at this day, I felt bad to be treated as baby, and I "lost my sense of humor".

Uhm, dude, you've been ranting for over 24 hours not because you think you got bad advice, but because being given that advice hurt your pride and, you say now, made you feel like you were being treated like a baby.

I think the only thing that needs to change is igadoter's attitude.

I'm missing where this all is going. Seems like one person who had objections has changed their viewpoint.

Seems like the topic is getting obfuscated, not that it needs to be hyper-focused on the original thought.

How about a list. And just in case it helps:

[list=1][*]List item 1[*]List item 2[/list]

will create a numbered list, and you can use a, b, c if you wish instead.

The list I'm looking for is your points, as in point by point.

Because, sorry but things are getting all over the map here and so I wonder how this ends up being useful "Suggestions and Feedback", if not reaches a conclusion of "Agree to disagree".

What my example list would actually look like when posted (without being bordered with "noparse/noparse" tags that is:

1. List item 1
2. List item 2

I rarely "unsubscribe" but gee ... after 99+ posts I'm sitting here wondering how much more 'round this all goeth.

Originally Posted by igadoter I would rather emphasize the idea of working in a team as efficient way for solving problems. "Leader" is not necessary most knowledgable person, but most organized, able to make the team to work as team. So think about thread like "team made on the fly" to solve problem.

The whole application of "team" concepts to such a forum is ridiculous, and harmful. Frankly, almost nothing makes me avoid a thread more than a post that begins with "Hey team!", or otherwise attempts to use team motivational slogans or methods to get support.

The team concept pre-supposes a coordianted group in communication, with pre-agreed common goals and individual responsibilities.

I think that many posts here, especially from newer members in my opinion, are asked by people in their professional capacity from within their own "team", and expect to be able to extend the sphere of their own organizations team responsibilities to include include people here offering help! The result is that they treat volunteers here as subordinates with the implication that we are somehow obligated to perform some tasks, and otherwise are not living up to our responsibilities!

Collaboration among strangers is one thing, a great thing, but the whole team paradigm is out of place and harmful to such fora, in my never humble opinion.

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 I mean, were you hoping for an education thanks to a member of the forum?

I found this

My inner strength and self respect is getting stronger every day. Thank you to those who tried to bring me down. You made me who I am today.

Originally Posted by igadoter I found this

I'm not trying to bring you down. I am instead promoting self education.

You know, when I started with Linux it could take all night to get XFree86 working. There was no real place to turn so you learnt how to do things on your own.

And now we have people that think they are entitled to answers? From a community of people lending their time?

Presenting people with a resource such as a Google hint is a good thing. Nothing wrong with that.

Originally Posted by astrogeek The whole application of "team" concepts to such a forum is ridiculous, and harmful.

I see no harm here. Two newcomers can resolve problem by their own, you can see "teams" created every moment, people help
to each other to carry luggage. It comes quite naturally, but mostly it is based on presumptions that members of a team
are equal. People are joinning through threads, exchanging information, maybe they will solve the problem, maybe not,
but working this way always gives gratification.

Of course this is too slow way to learn. So in the real world one needs go to school. And school is very good place for all kinds of 'guru's.

So, I can state this: let don't make from forum kind a school. Even the word 'forum' is Latin word, if am I correct: place where people meets.

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 I'm not trying to bring you down.

Sorry, it was a joke. I have difficulites to understand "an education thanks to a member", and I found this rather
funny page
http://www.searchquotes.com/search/Education_Thank_You/

I am instead promoting self education.

I am all on your side. I am self-educated person.

You know, when I started with Linux it could take all night to get XFree86 working. There was no real place to turn so you learnt how to do things on your own. And now we have people that think they are entitled to answers? From a community of people lending their time?

It is rather self-promotion. The only system of validation here are those post counts and reputation points,
that is very poor. In fact you can't treat this seriuosly, but only as child-game. These are only strange
collections, aimed at making impression on newcomers. Maybe it is poor choice of words. It looks solid.
But it is clear that poster do not take responsibility. The advice of 'guru' may blow-up system. But newbie
would recognize it was fault of guru ?

Presenting people with a resource such as a Google hint is a good thing. Nothing wrong with that.

Yes, if it is not based on presumption "in the net one can find everything". I mean that person giving
such advice, should know that there are resources on the internet, which might help, and looking for them
is not like seeking in garbage. I am not asking for the other person to do this search for me. But I don't want
to spend whole day searching, assuming I would follow such advice. Because then why to bother to post at all ?
One of the reason can be: to save some time. If not then why to post?

Originally Posted by igadoter I see no harm here. Two newcomers can resolve problem by their own, you can see "teams" created every moment, people help to each other to carry luggage. It comes quite naturally, but mostly it is based on presumptions that members of a team are equal. People are joinning through threads, exchanging information, maybe they will solve the problem, maybe not, but working this way always gives gratification. Of course this is too slow way to learn. So in the real world one needs go to school. And school is very good place for all kinds of 'guru's. So, I can state this: let don't make from forum kind a school. Even the word 'forum' is Latin word, if am I correct: place where people meets.

The world would still be in middle ages if we followed this model of progress. I think leaving newbies to themselves to "collaborate" to learn would only result in wasting time on constant attempts at reinventing the wheel

I think you're mixing up two meanings of the word 'equal'. In terms of knowledge and expertise, gurus and newcomers to linux are not 'equal' - gurus know things that newbies don't. I don't know about you but I originally signed up to LQ with the hope that I will be helped by more experienced people than I was. Why else would I sign up? If all the members were roughly at my level when I signed up, it would be the case of the blind leading the blind with occasional streak of luck, for which I have no time. LQ is a place where I can get help with my problems or (once in a blue moon) I can help someone. If you want to work collaboratively on some projects, check places such as github.

However, when it comes to being equal meaning 'equally important or respected, then yes we should be 'equal' and I believe we are. This, however, has nothing to do with the post count or LQ title.
I am more experienced than many people here at LQ but at the same time, there's even a bigger number of members here who have much greater knowledge than I have. That's how it works. A situation where a more experienced person guides (please note, guides, not spoon feeds) a less experienced one has proven to be the most efficient way for people to progress so far. This should not be confused with feeling inferior. If one feels intimidated/inferior being advised by more knowledgeable members, he/she should really get over themselves and rethink why they had signed up here.

Personally, I think you're trying to find a problem where there's none. Even as a complete newbie, I have never experienced anything but helpful responses to me, even if they were harsh at times. One needs to learn how to take feedback even and especially the kind of feedback that you don't like.