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To add to what TB0ne has already pointed out, the thread was nearly 2 years old until recently restarted.
And that the OP has also not been on LQ since that time.
@rippletan,
Absolutely ZERO problem if you know Kali and wish to be helpful with Kali questions. I think you'll find there are a lot of them and also that many of the analysis already made by some other members about typical Kali questions is somewhat spot on.
Meanwhile, there is a sticky about Kali in the Newbie forum.
And once again, we are not saying that someone can't use Kali and also use it differently than the inventors of Kali had envisioned. However it would be helpful if the questioners had done a bit more than just asked, "How do I ..." and shown some effort, etc.
Like I say, if you have some Kali knowledge, then please do offer some support to those members asking those "out of the box" questions about Kali.
Certainly the Kali inventors are not supporting those types of configurations and questions, and not too many LQ members here have cited that they have much experience using Kali other than for it's intended purpose.
ripped out of context! what's the larger picture (the whole interview)?
and again, who said that?
The person speaking in that video is Mati Aharoni, lead Kali developer. He might know a thing or two more than us on this particular distribution, am i right?
The question he's been asked is pretty straight forward, no need for a larger picture ( considering that he's asked specifically about users utilizing Kali linux as their main daily operating system) and i can see why he replies like that.
Again, all the Kali Linux website does, is pointing out that Kali is not your typical Ubuntu or Fedora. It requires more effort than a traditional Linux distribution to be dealt with and so the usage is not suggested to unexperienced Linux users.
We are in a place called linuxquestions here, people ask questions and we try to help them solve their issues, not judging them for their choice of distribution. If that's what you want to do, you should join an Apple or Microsoft forum.
As ondoho posted, the Kali website is not 'misinterpreted'; their developers SPECIFICALLY SAY it is not a recommended distribution for gaming (and other things). And claiming you weren't suggesting anything after what you posted makes no sense.
Nope; try again. And as said before, what *CAN* do is often different than what you *SHOULD* do. For example, CAN I use an RPI to run a mail server for 1,000 users? Sure. SHOULD I? Nope.
So WE should stop telling people what to do...because you TOLD US TO? Because YOU want to tell them something different? Makes no sense, again.
Sorry, no...either you just aren't understanding what's being said, or you're intentionally trolling. You're not off to a great start on this site. Good luck.
Instead of just quoting me and say Nope; try again. Argument your replies. You cannot expect people to believe in what you say without making a valid point or argument.
And your argument in regards to what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do is completely ridicolous. Using a linux distribution different from Ubuntu or Steam OS to play with Steam is not the same thing as using a RPI to run a mail server.
Steam is just an application, like many others. The fact that you need to take a few extra steps to make it work on some distributions does not mean you should not do it. I really don't understand your arguments guys. So if it's not working out of the box , you SHOULD not be using it??
Good luck using linux with this forma mentis.
And just to be COMPLETELY CLEAR, about what the question asked is in the video to Mati Aharoni, i'll quote it down here, word for word.
"I wonder you must be aware that that seems to be some groundswelling around people using Kali as their full time linux desktop. They're using it as their main distro, not just for penetration testing but , ON EVERYDAY STUFF. what do you think about that phenomenon and why do you think that's happening?"
Reply:
"I think that's happening because Kali linux just turns to be a very stable and reliable Operating System and very very flexible, often more flexible than other distributions around that so i can definitely see that happening, i mean, we support the latest kernel in each release, so you usely find that Kali has better hardware support than more traditional operating systems, so i can definitely see that happening, it doesn't surprise me, it doesn't surprise me... "
Now, the lead developer of Kali says that about Kali Linux, but because of some random users on LinuxQuestions not agreeing with that, people should not be doing it??
Now what i can agree on is, we could guide the users pointing them in the right direction. Newbies should learn how to properly maintain their machines, WHATEVER THEIR OS OF CHOICE IS.
I could've understand if you just pointed out : you know, it doesn't work out of the box because it's not developed for that particular use, but if you are interested you can do this this and this to make it work. But remember, dealing with an advanced linux distribution like Kali, can often have you end up with a broken system while trying to make things work. So make sure to make a backup of your entire installation before doing anything (you could do it with tools like rsync, if you need help with that let me know) that could potentially brake your system.
If you don't want to go through all this you could try using a more straight forward distribution like Ubuntu or Mint"
THAT, would be acceptable, THAT would be helpful. Just saying Kali linux is not for Steam is of ZERO help.
An answer like the one below is giving the newbie precious informations, is increasing their knowledge about Linux, one little step at a time. No one was born expert linux user from day one. That's what we are here for.
Distribution: Currently: OpenMandriva. Previously: openSUSE, PCLinuxOS, CentOS, among others over the years.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rippletan
The person speaking in that video is Mati Aharoni, lead Kali developer. He might know a thing or two more than us on this particular distribution, am i right?...
Like the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by From Kali's developers
Is Kali Linux Right For You?
As the distribution’s developers, you might expect us to recommend that everyone should be using Kali Linux. The fact of the matter is, however, that Kali is a Linux distribution specifically geared towards professional penetration testers and security specialists, and given its unique nature, it is NOT a recommended distribution if you’re unfamiliar with Linux or are looking for a general-purpose Linux desktop distribution for development, web design, gaming, etc.
Even for experienced Linux users, Kali can pose some challenges. Although Kali is an open source project, it’s not a wide-open source project, for reasons of security. The development team is small and trusted, packages in the repositories are signed both by the individual committer and the team, and — importantly — the set of upstream repositories from which updates and new packages are drawn is very small. Adding repositories to your software sources which have not been tested by the Kali Linux development team is a good way to cause problems on your system.
While Kali Linux is architected to be highly customizable, don’t expect to be able to add random unrelated packages and repositories that are “out of band” of the regular Kali software sources and have it Just Work. In particular, there is absolutely no support whatsoever for the apt-add-repository command, LaunchPad, or PPAs. Trying to install Steam on your Kali Linux desktop is an experiment that will not end well.
We understand your "point", only problem is that it does NOT compute with what KALI'S developers say on their own website.
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Originally Posted by rippletan
Instead of just quoting me and say Nope; try again. Argument your replies. You cannot expect people to believe in what you say without making a valid point or argument.
I believe TB0ne DID make a VERY valid argument.
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And your argument in regards to what you CAN do and what you SHOULD do is completely ridicolous...
Actually it's not "ridicolous", it's rather sensible actually.
Quote:
Steam is just an application, like many others. The fact that you need to take a few extra steps to make it work on some distributions does not mean you should not do it. I really don't understand your arguments guys. So if it's not working out of the box , you SHOULD not be using it??
Yes, Steam is an application and one that Kali's developers explicitly mention in their warning on their website for Kali. You've already been told why people here don't recommend people use it for UNSUITABLE/UNINTENDED purposes. If you're having trouble reading/understanding what you've been told, maybe read Kali's website.
No-one here said if something "isn't working out of the box", that it means you should not use it and you know it.
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Good luck using linux with this forma mentis...
Good luck on this forum with your attitude.
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THAT, would be acceptable, THAT would be helpful. Just saying Kali linux is not for Steam is of ZERO help.
Oh, so now you're telling us what's "acceptable and what's not acceptable ??? I believe that's up to LQ to decide, not yourself.
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An answer like the one below is giving the newbie precious informations, is increasing their knowledge about Linux, one little step at a time. No one was born expert linux user from day one. That's what we are here for.
An "answer like that" is far more likely to *discourage* a newbie, NOT help them. No-one said anyone was born an "expert linux user", once again, YOU said that.
I am not "suggesting" anything to anyone, it's you people that should stop misinterpreting what the Kali website says. It's creator said that he can see why people are starting to use it as a daily driver, it's a rock solid and reliable linux distribution.
Below the video of one of Kali Linux's Authors talking about this exact argument:
ripped out of context! what's the larger picture (the whole interview)?
and again, who said that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rippletan
The person speaking in that video is Mati Aharoni, lead Kali developer.
The question he's been asked is pretty straight forward, no need for a larger picture ( considering that he's asked specifically about users utilizing Kali linux as their main daily operating system) and i can see why he replies like that.
yes, there IS a need for a larger picture.
since you seem unwilling to provide it, i will:
the interview happened in 2014 on jupiterbroadcasting - kali was only 1 year old then, it's still another year before mr robot goes on air, and it seems that professional penetration testers were bashed as near-criminals back then (they talk about this).
the interview starts 00:46:57, ends 01:05:45. that's roughly 20 minutes.
they mostly talk about offensive security, how the then-young kali distro differs from its ancestor backtrack, and how kali linux is not illegal or dangerous, but a important and useful tool for network security professionals.
since kali has commercial offers, mati aharoni's talk sounds a bit like a sales pitch to me.
which is totally ok, but might explain why he was eager to give & get positive feedback about all aspects of kali. the context of the interview is such that i'm pretty sure neither party had teenage gamers & script kiddies in mind, but network admin professionals, when they talk about folks using kali as their daily drivers.
i bet he bitterly regretted that short quote in subsequent years... seeing as the now multiply quoted (in this thread alone) "should i use kali linux" is still on their website, unlike that 4-year old interview.
so, the out-of-context excerpt starts at 00:54:21 and lasts 1.5 minutes, and even during those 1.5 minutes they already drift away from the "kali as desktop distro" topic, and never once return to it for the rest of the interview.
no talk of gaming or installing it to hard drive.
instead they talk at length about how safe a kali usb with persistence can be, etc. etc.
all this happened in 2014, kali linux was just one year old, and mr robot didn't go on air until a year later!
the youtube video quoted was put online in 2017; clearly by someone who wanted to show the world that even mati aharoni agrees with millions of hyped kali noobs.
We understand your "point", only problem is that it does NOT compute with what KALI'S developers say on their own website.
And what does the website say exactly?? in short: you should not expect things like Steam to Just Work (aka work out of the box). It discourages users who just want a general purpose OS and are not interested in Penetration Testing at all, to install Kali. Which is COMPLETELY diffent.
there are A TON of things that don't work out of the box in linux world, even if you have the "right" distribution (it's silly even to say). That does not mean you shouldn't do it.
I repeat, if "works out of the box" is your IT philosophy, then buy an Apple Product, Linux is not for you.
yes, there IS a need for a larger picture.
since you seem unwilling to provide it, i will:
the interview happened in 2014 on jupiterbroadcasting - kali was only 1 year old then, it's still another year before mr robot goes on air, and it seems that professional penetration testers were bashed as near-criminals back then (they talk about this).
the interview starts 00:46:57, ends 01:05:45. that's roughly 20 minutes.
they mostly talk about offensive security, how the then-young kali distro differs from its ancestor backtrack, and how kali linux is not illegal or dangerous, but a important and useful tool for network security professionals.
since kali has commercial offers, mati aharoni's talk sounds a bit like a sales pitch to me.
which is totally ok, but might explain why he was eager to give & get positive feedback about all aspects of kali. the context of the interview is such that i'm pretty sure neither party had teenage gamers & script kiddies in mind, but network admin professionals, when they talk about folks using kali as their daily drivers.
i bet he bitterly regretted that short quote in subsequent years... seeing as the now multiply quoted (in this thread alone) "should i use kali linux" is still on their website, unlike that 4-year old interview.
so, the out-of-context excerpt starts at 00:54:21 and lasts 1.5 minutes, and even during those 1.5 minutes they already drift away from the "kali as desktop distro" topic, and never once return to it for the rest of the interview.
no talk of gaming or installing it to hard drive.
instead they talk at length about how safe a kali usb with persistence can be, etc. etc.
all this happened in 2014, kali linux was just one year old, and mr robot didn't go on air until a year later!
the youtube video quoted was put online in 2017; clearly by someone who wanted to show the world that even mati aharoni agrees with millions of hyped kali noobs.
And here we go... that word again... script kiddie.
Allright, let me try to explain myself better. I am a professional penetration tester and seasoned Linux user since the mid 90s. That does not entitle me to make fun of kids that are currently noobs with it, or refer to them with a derogative word like Script Kiddie.
Every single one of us was a script kiddie back then, unless you guys were born pros. I have a completely different point of view of being a script kiddie. A script Kiddie is still better than a completely ignorant user that does not even make the effort to learn how to use a piece of software. The WHOLE CONCEPT of Kali revolves around having a distribution that packs a whole bunch of tools for penetration testing.
Don't wanna be a script kiddie? Then you should be writing every single piece of software you use, if you DO use tools written by other people, then, in a way, you are a script kiddie too. and that's not what Kali was meant for. Am i right?
I am thrilled to see growing interest towards Linux in the Desktop environment. Now, are the reasons to find behind a succesful TV SHOWS that gets little kids into installing "that cool hacker OS"? Fine!! They have only to learn!!
After all theese years as a Linux user i learned an extremely important lesson:
It does not matter what is the reason that triggers you to try resolving an issue, it's what comes after that really matters. Doing so you build problem solving skills that are badly needed in today's "we'll do it all for you" tech world.
Now i don't know is this person is using Kali for this or that reason, all i know it's that it's contributing to linux diffusion, in his own little way.
Will that person quit after seeing the steep learning curve that Linux requires? I don't know. But i am damn sure he's at least trying. And i am here to help him, and you should to.
And again, i hope my point is clear here. What my argument is all about is not just because you said Kali is not meant to be installed Steam on, it's because you didn't give a large enough view to the person asking the question.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rippletan
And what does the website say exactly??
THIS:
Quote:
Trying to install Steam on your Kali Linux desktop is an experiment that will not end well.
What's unclear about the above or the rest of it ?? Unless you are a complete moron, you would not be giving such BAD advice to people that might not know any better. That's also pretty poor on your part.
Quote:
in short: you should not expect things like Steam to Just Work (aka work out of the box). It discourages users who just want a general purpose OS and are not interested in Penetration Testing at all, to install Kali. Which is COMPLETELY diffent.
No, it does not say that, read it again (if you have read it at all).
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there are A TON of things that don't work out of the box in linux world, even if you have the "right" distribution (it's silly even to say). That does not mean you shouldn't do it.
I repeat, if "works out of the box" is your IT philosophy, then buy an Apple Product, Linux is not for you.
And how many times do you need to be told before you understand what is being said??? AGAIN, no-one here is saying that if "it doesn't work out out of the box", to not use it. How many times do you need to be told that, before you understand??
You can keep arguing about it all you like... you know what Kali's own website says about it, I've even quoted a part of it here AND given you the link to read the WHOLE thing for yourself. What more do you want?
FYI, nobody here cares what you think about Kali nor anything else, you have already made a very bad impression of yourself already. If you want to keep going, and giving BAD advice like that, don't expect others to agree with you. Don't expect people here to trust you, as I would NOT with advice like YOU have given.
Also, you do NOT know more than Kali's own developers, who once again, clearly state what Kali is meant for and ONLY meant for on their own website, thet cannot make it any plainer, so if you're unhappy about how people reply to Kali related questions here, then, maybe you should find a different forum to participate in.
What's unclear about the above or the rest of it ?? Unless you are a complete moron, you would not be giving such BAD advice to people that might not know any better. That's also pretty poor on your part.
No, it does not say that, read it again (if you have read it at all).
And how many times do you need to be told before you understand what is being said??? AGAIN, no-one here is saying that if "it doesn't work out out of the box", to not use it. How many times do you need to be told that, before you understand??
You can keep arguing about it all you like... you know what Kali's own website says about it, I've even quoted a part of it here AND given you the link to read the WHOLE thing for yourself. What more do you want?
FYI, nobody here cares what you think about Kali nor anything else, you have already made a very bad impression of yourself already. If you want to keep going, and giving BAD advice like that, don't expect others to agree with you. Don't expect people here to trust you, as I would NOT with advice like YOU have given.
Also, you do NOT know more than Kali's own developers, who once again, clearly state what Kali is meant for and ONLY meant for on their own website, thet cannot make it any plainer, so if you're unhappy about how people reply to Kali related questions here, then, maybe you should find a different forum to participate in.
Wow, you are just incredible. If everyone would have been like you in IT, hacking would've never existed in the first place.
The entire concept of hacking resolves around the idea of making something do what is not meant to do in the first place. I repeat myself, the more i read you, the more i cannot understand why you are a linux user at all. And to give a clearer picture, please read the answer i gave below where i explain my point of view to ondoho.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rippletan
...
Every single one of us was a script kiddie back then, unless you guys were born pros. I have a completely different point of view of being a script kiddie. A script Kiddie is still better than a completely ignorant user that does not even make the effort to learn how to use a piece of software.
You seem to have a lot of trouble understanding what's being said. Your own "point of view" about "script kiddies" is irrelevant, and once again, NOBODY CARES what you think about Kali, who should be using it, etc. What IS relevant is that, it completely contradicts what KALI'S DEVELOPERS say on THEIR website! What part of that do you not understand???
An educated user who listens to people with DECADES of experience between them, is better than a "completely ignorant" user.
Quote:
The WHOLE CONCEPT of Kali revolves around having a distribution that packs a whole bunch of tools for penetration testing.
Don't wanna be a script kiddie? Then you should be writing every single piece of software you use, if you DO use tools written by other people, then, in a way, you are a script kiddie too. and that's not what Kali was meant for. Am i right?
...
After all theese years as a Linux user i learned an extremely important lesson:
It does not matter what is the reason that triggers you to try resolving an issue, it's what comes after that really matters. Doing so you build problem solving skills that are badly needed in today's "we'll do it all for you" tech world.
Exactly, "a distribution that packs a whole bunch of tools for penetration testing", keywords there are "penetration testing" NOT installing the Steam client and playing games on Kali. Exactly, that I can agree with you on.
It's simply not practical for everyone to write their own OS, even if everyone DID have the skills to be able to. Nor would most people have the time to do it. That's right, Kali was meant for people that ALREADY have the necessary networking, command-line, etc skills. People that UNDERSTAND how Linux and networking in general work, and NOT for noobs, that's right.
Nobody is saying that it "matters what triggers you to solve a problem", YOUR saying that. And that is also beside the point.
Quote:
Now i don't know is this person is using Kali for this or that reason, all i know it's that it's contributing to linux diffusion, in his own little way.
People using Kali because they think it's cool to use it and/or who are delusional enough to think that by virtue of using Kali, that means you're going to become the worlds best hacker are NOT "contributing" ANYTHING to Linux. Any number of forum posts here alone should tell you that.
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Will that person quit after seeing the steep learning curve that Linux requires? I don't know. But i am damn sure he's at least trying. And i am here to help him, and you should to.
I think for a lot of people - particularly those that don't what to learn anything - the answer would be YES! I myself started using Linux in the mid to late 2000's and I can tell you as a matter of fact at least a couple of things:
While I will admit that Kali Linux did not exist when I started using Linux; I can tell you without a doubt that, I have learned a LOT about Linux using normal general-purpose distro's, and have NEVER needed to use Kali to learn anything. Another fun FACT: I seriously doubt I would still be using Linux, if I started off with Kali, and it would have been a MUCH STEEPER learning curve to learn what I currently know.
Also, adding a user account is a very basic and trivial task, that ANYONE using Kali SHOULD already know, like using the command-line to run the useradd command in the first place.
Also, a quick Google search of "learning linux" brings up many guides that say nothing about starting with Kali and in fact give much of the same advice others have already given here (about NOT using Kali for playing games and instead starting off with a normal general purpose distro instead).
The above links are only just two of the hits I got Google. Where does it say you can only learn Linux by jumping straight into the deep end ?
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And again, i hope my point is clear here. What my argument is all about is not just because you said Kali is not meant to be installed Steam on, it's because you didn't give a large enough view to the person asking the question.
Once again, Kali's own developers are crystal clear on what Kali should be used for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rippletan
Wow, you are just incredible. If everyone would have been like you in IT, hacking would've never existed in the first place.
I really think you need to say that to a mirror. You have not only given some very BAD advice, you have completely ignored what Kali's own developers have clearly stated on their OWN WEBSITE, you are also ignoring the SAME advice from several members here that have DECADES of experience between them. And not even ONE other member here to date is agreeing with your argument and your still trying to justify your BAD advice... that's "incredible" !!
Who's said anything about stopping people from hacking, once again, you NEED to have the necessary foundational skills to use Kali effectively and this still does NOT mean that it's a good idea to be using Kali for purposes it is NOT MEANT FOR. Do you not understand that???
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The entire concept of hacking resolves around the idea of making something do what is not meant to do in the first place. I repeat myself, the more i read you, the more i cannot understand why you are a linux user at all. And to give a clearer picture, please read the answer i gave below where i explain my point of view to ondoho.
Well then, I think you'd better find a different forum, as we try to teach people to use the RIGHT tool for the RIGHT job. Kali is NOT the right tool for the job unless you are using it for it's INTENDED purposes. There's also a rule here about discussing hacking - in that, we are not allowed to.
Once again, I do NOT CARE one little bit what you think of me, Kali, LQ, or anything else... do you not understand that ?
I did read what you said to ondoho and it still does NOT change what is written on Kali's own website - I strongly suggest you READ it.
A more little tip:
If you want to give BAD advice here and completely ignore what others here say AND what Kali's own developers say, then don't be surprised if others here rebuff your argument - as we have.
Furthermore, there is NO way known that you could convince me that everyone else is wrong and/or doesn't know what their talking about, but you do, bullsh*t you do.
And here we go... that word again... script kiddie.
Allright, let me try to explain myself better. I am a professional penetration tester and seasoned Linux user since the mid 90s. That does not entitle me to make fun of kids that are currently noobs with it, or refer to them with a derogative word like Script Kiddie.
riiiight...
the fact that you react so strongly to the word "script kiddie" - which wasn't directed at anyone in particular - tells me that you are much younger than you are now trying to give the impression to be.
anyhow, you are now veering left and right of the topic at hand, trying to broaden it into more than there really is to it... for me, what needed to be said was said, and now this thread certainly doesn't pose any danger anymore to clueless noobs searching for advice...
i just hope you realise how a quote in its intended context can differ in meaning, compared to someone giving it new context in light of recent events (tv shows, fandom etc.).
riiiight...
the fact that you react so strongly to the word "script kiddie" - which wasn't directed at anyone in particular - tells me that you are much younger than you are now trying to give the impression to be.
anyhow, you are now veering left and right of the topic at hand, trying to broaden it into more than there really is to it... for me, what needed to be said was said, and now this thread certainly doesn't pose any danger anymore to clueless noobs searching for advice...
i just hope you realise how a quote in its intended context can differ in meaning, compared to someone giving it new context in light of recent events (tv shows, fandom etc.).
oh God, i react strongly to that term because it's a term from a past and different IT world that just does not resonate with today's world.
Back then, computers used to be lot more complex to use in so many ways, and just the fact that one could manage to use trumpet winsock on Windows in order to make his internet connection work was reason to consider him somewhat above the average user. There were not so many forums around and getting by precious knowledge just a click away was much less common.
All of us struggled many times to solve our problems and find solutions to it, even if the problem we were trying to solve was irrelevant or pointless.
Compiz and ATI gpus combined later on were a main reason for broken systems for many linux users (the persons that were asking questions back then, felt a great accomplishment when they finally managed to make things work. They may have not used that Cube once after, but in the process they learned what a compositor is and what a xorg configuration file is)
as i mentioned before, i do not argue you guys pointing out the facts and advices given on Kali's website, i am just arguing that maybe giving little bit more context would have been more helpful.
Let's put it like this. Kali is probably the first distribution this person ever installed on his system, and is probably struggling to make Steam work on it. He doesn't have the knowledge we have, so everything sounds much more difficult than it could be for one us.
Helping him out telling him why he is getting this error, should be the first thing we do, in order to educate him and pass him knowledge, then afterwards suggesting to learn linux on a less complicated and advanced distribution is perfectly fine.
Chances are he is going to have issues on a simpler distribution like Ubuntu as well
and he will have to deal with it no matter what.
Please don't take my argument as an absolute point of view, it's just how i personally believe we should approach new linux users. The platform is not gonna increase in popularity just with us, it needs more new and young users. Sure, many of them will quit, Linux isn't for everyone after all, but giving them some help in the first hard months is not bad at all.
Just with my little and simple advice, at least he learned how to create a new user with sudo privileges in his system, and he will be able to replicate that in any other distribution. That's a good thing no??
You seem to have a lot of trouble understanding what's being said. Your own "point of view" about "script kiddies" is irrelevant, and once again, NOBODY CARES what you think about Kali, who should be using it, etc. What IS relevant is that, it completely contradicts what KALI'S DEVELOPERS say on THEIR website! What part of that do you not understand???
An educated user who listens to people with DECADES of experience between them, is better than a "completely ignorant" user.
Exactly, "a distribution that packs a whole bunch of tools for penetration testing", keywords there are "penetration testing" NOT installing the Steam client and playing games on Kali. Exactly, that I can agree with you on.
It's simply not practical for everyone to write their own OS, even if everyone DID have the skills to be able to. Nor would most people have the time to do it. That's right, Kali was meant for people that ALREADY have the necessary networking, command-line, etc skills. People that UNDERSTAND how Linux and networking in general work, and NOT for noobs, that's right.
Nobody is saying that it "matters what triggers you to solve a problem", YOUR saying that. And that is also beside the point.
People using Kali because they think it's cool to use it and/or who are delusional enough to think that by virtue of using Kali, that means you're going to become the worlds best hacker are NOT "contributing" ANYTHING to Linux. Any number of forum posts here alone should tell you that.
I think for a lot of people - particularly those that don't what to learn anything - the answer would be YES! I myself started using Linux in the mid to late 2000's and I can tell you as a matter of fact at least a couple of things:
While I will admit that Kali Linux did not exist when I started using Linux; I can tell you without a doubt that, I have learned a LOT about Linux using normal general-purpose distro's, and have NEVER needed to use Kali to learn anything. Another fun FACT: I seriously doubt I would still be using Linux, if I started off with Kali, and it would have been a MUCH STEEPER learning curve to learn what I currently know.
Also, adding a user account is a very basic and trivial task, that ANYONE using Kali SHOULD already know, like using the command-line to run the useradd command in the first place.
Also, a quick Google search of "learning linux" brings up many guides that say nothing about starting with Kali and in fact give much of the same advice others have already given here (about NOT using Kali for playing games and instead starting off with a normal general purpose distro instead).
The above links are only just two of the hits I got Google. Where does it say you can only learn Linux by jumping straight into the deep end ?
Once again, Kali's own developers are crystal clear on what Kali should be used for.
I really think you need to say that to a mirror. You have not only given some very BAD advice, you have completely ignored what Kali's own developers have clearly stated on their OWN WEBSITE, you are also ignoring the SAME advice from several members here that have DECADES of experience between them. And not even ONE other member here to date is agreeing with your argument and your still trying to justify your BAD advice... that's "incredible" !!
Who's said anything about stopping people from hacking, once again, you NEED to have the necessary foundational skills to use Kali effectively and this still does NOT mean that it's a good idea to be using Kali for purposes it is NOT MEANT FOR. Do you not understand that???
Well then, I think you'd better find a different forum, as we try to teach people to use the RIGHT tool for the RIGHT job. Kali is NOT the right tool for the job unless you are using it for it's INTENDED purposes. There's also a rule here about discussing hacking - in that, we are not allowed to.
Once again, I do NOT CARE one little bit what you think of me, Kali, LQ, or anything else... do you not understand that ?
I did read what you said to ondoho and it still does NOT change what is written on Kali's own website - I strongly suggest you READ it.
A more little tip:
If you want to give BAD advice here and completely ignore what others here say AND what Kali's own developers say, then don't be surprised if others here rebuff your argument - as we have.
Furthermore, there is NO way known that you could convince me that everyone else is wrong and/or doesn't know what their talking about, but you do, bullsh*t you do.
Jsb we are not arguing about who SHOULD use Kali linux, we are just arguing about the kind of answer. Me and you both know that Steam can run on Kali as it can on any other distribution. (even if probably none of us two ever even tried)
There is NO DOUBT at all on what you said, Kali is certainly not the ideal distro to play games with, i never argued that.
All i am just pointing out is that the user posted an error he is getting, and nobody told him "why", besides just making him notice that Kali should not be used for that. Telling him both things, would have been much more educational. At least now he knows how to create a new user with sudo privileges. That's precious (basic of course, but still) knowledge that he'll be able to replicate in any other distribution he'll use in the future.
Will the user then decide to take both suggestions and use a less advanced distro to start learning linux? It's up to him of course. But the point here is just that he learned something new knowing that Steam is not working "not only" because Kali is not the ideal distro to play with, but because is set in a way that requires few extra steps in order to make things like that work.
He will run in issues like that also in other simpler distributions, he will have to crawl in forums asking for advice, and hopefully, i ll be there to help him out.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rippletan
Jsb we are not arguing about who SHOULD use Kali linux, we are just arguing about the kind of answer. Me and you both know that Steam can run on Kali as it can on any other distribution. (even if probably none of us two ever even tried)
There is NO DOUBT at all on what you said, Kali is certainly not the ideal distro to play games with, i never argued that.
All i am just pointing out is that the user posted an error he is getting, and nobody told him "why", besides just making him notice that Kali should not be used for that. Telling him both things, would have been much more educational. At least now he knows how to create a new user with sudo privileges. That's precious (basic of course, but still) knowledge that he'll be able to replicate in any other distribution he'll use in the future.
I believe you were and ARE arguing about who should use Kali.
Exactly, Steam can run on most (if not any) other distro's, which combined with the other reasons Kali should ONLY be used for it's intended purposes, but also, by people who KNOW what they are doing, there are many upon many Linux distro's out there, where NO "extra steps" are required to make it work. So WHY try and make it work on a distro it's NOT intended for ?? That makes NO logical sense what-so-ever and is once again, BAD advice to be giving to a "newbie", period.
Kali Linux is not just not an "ideal" distro, it is UNSUITABLE for newbies and general purposes full stop, period. What is it that you don't understand about that ?? It's a very simple concept to understand.
If you learn Linux the same way most other people learn it, then you should understand things like how user privilege systems work, why you need to use a normal limited user account when using such software on Linux. Once again, if the person knows what they are doing in the first place, then they should know how to troubleshoot the issue. And once again, anyone whos knows what their doing, would NOT be using Kali for anything other than it's intended purposes, period. So once again, very BAD advice to be giving. You were telling them step by step on how to do it, not just explaining why it wasn't working for them, be honest.
Quote:
Will the user then decide to take both suggestions and use a less advanced distro to start learning linux? It's up to him of course. But the point here is just that he learned something new knowing that Steam is not working "not only" because Kali is not the ideal distro to play with, but because is set in a way that requires few extra steps in order to make things like that work.
He will run in issues like that also in other simpler distributions, he will have to crawl in forums asking for advice, and hopefully, i ll be there to help him out.
That's right, it is up to them at the end of the day, we can only offer advice and "show them the door", they have to open it.
It's once again beside the point of weather the person knows why it didn't work. You could quite easily use ANY OTHER DISTRO to try running the Steam client under the root user account and see what happens. Once again, why do they need to use Kali to figure that out ?
Yes exactly my point before, problems ain't limited to just Kali, so yes, using a far more SUITABLE distro can also teach some Linux troubleshooting, agree. They could also download some Virtual Machine software and as many do TO learn, break the system and then trying to fix it. I've learned though doing just that myself.
But look, I agree with 0nd0h000, enough said. I just hope no-one takes your BAD advice.
I believe you were and ARE arguing about who should use Kali.
Exactly, Steam can run on most (if not any) other distro's, which combined with the other reasons Kali should ONLY be used for it's intended purposes, but also, by people who KNOW what they are doing, there are many upon many Linux distro's out there, where NO "extra steps" are required to make it work. So WHY try and make it work on a distro it's NOT intended for ?? That makes NO logical sense what-so-ever and is once again, BAD advice to be giving to a "newbie", period.
Kali Linux is not just not an "ideal" distro, it is UNSUITABLE for newbies and general purposes full stop, period. What is it that you don't understand about that ?? It's a very simple concept to understand.
If you learn Linux the same way most other people learn it, then you should understand things like how user privilege systems work, why you need to use a normal limited user account when using such software on Linux. Once again, if the person knows what they are doing in the first place, then they should know how to troubleshoot the issue. And once again, anyone whos knows what their doing, would NOT be using Kali for anything other than it's intended purposes, period. So once again, very BAD advice to be giving. You were telling them step by step on how to do it, not just explaining why it wasn't working for them, be honest.
That's right, it is up to them at the end of the day, we can only offer advice and "show them the door", they have to open it.
It's once again beside the point of weather the person knows why it didn't work. You could quite easily use ANY OTHER DISTRO to try running the Steam client under the root user account and see what happens. Once again, why do they need to use Kali to figure that out ?
Yes exactly my point before, problems ain't limited to just Kali, so yes, using a far more SUITABLE distro can also teach some Linux troubleshooting, agree. They could also download some Virtual Machine software and as many do TO learn, break the system and then trying to fix it. I've learned though doing just that myself.
But look, I agree with 0nd0h000, enough said. I just hope no-one takes your BAD advice.
Jsb, i didn't even argue with you, and in no post i've given BAD advice. I did not say to the user that he should use Kali to play games on Steam, you can check my post about it and there is no line where i suggest him that.
I just found the some answers before mine, to be not true, or at least not entirely. Take Yancek answer for example:
"The reason it doesn't work and the reasons you should not be using it are explained in detail at the Kali Linux site at the link below. The paragraph below is a quote directly from that pages that applies to your situation"(and then links Kali website)
That is NOT why it does not work, that is only why you should not be using it for that specific reason. The reason why it does not work is because he was trying to run it as root and Kali by default has only that one available. At least now he knows the reason WHY it doesn't work.
As you do, i am here just hoping to help users with their issues with Linux, not to give any bad advice, of which i've given none. (to be honest, i think that suggesting a linux user to at least create a user account instead of doing everything as root is a GOOD advice, not a bad one)
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(the persons that were asking questions back then, felt a great accomplishment when they finally managed to make things work. They may have not used that Cube once after, but in the process they learned what a compositor is and what a xorg configuration file is)
