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Old 10-16-2021, 03:01 PM   #1
jens
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Everything Fat sucks. Period.


Fat16 sucks.
Fat32 sucks.
exFat sucks.
Everything Fat sucks.

I have a functional FAT drive labeled Fat32 with a 128 gig partition and lots of +4gig files.
While it brakes all "laws" it still works with every device (Nintendo 3DS, Phone(android), ...).

Fat is broken beyond repair and should not be used anymore.

Stop using Fat!

Edit:

Since I partly created this monstrosity, I actually know what's wrong with it.
I'll pay a million dollars in monopoly money (+you're smart credits) for the first person who can give a single/answer tool to manage this (hint: you can't).

Edit2: Seriously, you can't. All low level tools (think below dd) just can't.

/rant

Last edited by jens; 10-16-2021 at 04:39 PM.
 
Old 10-16-2021, 03:27 PM   #2
rkelsen
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Everything Fat sucks. Period.

You haven't got a choice. It's going to be around for a long time yet. Aside from being the default file system on USB sticks, it's required on EFI partitions.
 
Old 10-16-2021, 03:36 PM   #3
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
You haven't got a choice. It's going to be around for a long time yet. Aside from being the default file system on USB sticks, it's required on EFI partitions.
Indeed. That's why it bothers me this much.
Fat needs to die!
 
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Old 10-16-2021, 03:54 PM   #4
jens
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Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
It's going to be around for a long time yet.
IMO this is it's main problem.
There's no such thing as just FAT, it's lots of things and always a complicated buggy super insecure mess.
 
Old 10-16-2021, 05:08 PM   #5
michaelk
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If you understand it's limitations and use it were appropriate it is not a problem IMHO.

It's good for embedded systems because it's simple. It works for flash drives because it is compatible with just about any OS.
 
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Old 10-16-2021, 05:18 PM   #6
jens
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If you understand it's limitations and use it were appropriate it is not a problem IMHO.
Wrong.
As already stated, I'm NOT bound with those limitations and everything still works (and **** your security as it can't even understand it).

FAT is a real problem with real issues that need to stop.

Last edited by jens; 10-16-2021 at 05:25 PM.
 
Old 10-16-2021, 06:19 PM   #7
michaelk
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exFAT does not have the 4GB file size limitation but FAT32 does. I don't know how to not be bounded if it is FAT32.
 
Old 10-16-2021, 06:40 PM   #8
rkelsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
FAT is a real problem with real issues that need to stop.
Absolutely 100% spot on. You could not be more correct.

... But it's not going to happen any time soon.
 
Old 10-16-2021, 07:50 PM   #9
jens
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Originally Posted by michaelk View Post
I don't know how to not be bounded if it is FAT32.
I have b W95 FAT32 partition type (not to be confused with c W95 FAT32 (LBA)) with a 128 gig partition and multiple +4GB files in a Nintendo DS (just like most people using a big sd in a 3DS). Braking its silly "boundaries" does make it unreadable for most PC software (including your security stuff) but doesn't stop it from working (ask anyone using a 3DS with a big sd). Likewise people used to reinstall Windows XP as it allowed 80 GB for no sane reason.

FAT is broken and people should stop using it.
I'm done trying to fix (instead of blocking) it as it simply can't be done.

Last edited by jens; 10-16-2021 at 08:12 PM.
 
Old 10-16-2021, 09:08 PM   #10
computersavvy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Wrong.
As already stated, I'm NOT bound with those limitations and everything still works (and **** your security as it can't even understand it).

FAT is a real problem with real issues that need to stop.
Quit whining.
It is there.
It will be for a long time.
You are not forced to use it since with linux you can reformat devices to almost any file system you choose.

The rest of us live with it where necessary as a fact of life and ignore it otherwise.

It is pathetic that you feel the need to vent your angst on the rest of us just because you can.
 
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Old 10-17-2021, 06:43 PM   #11
jens
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Originally Posted by computersavvy View Post
Quit whining.
It is there.
It will be for a long time.
You are not forced to use it since with linux you can reformat devices to almost any file system you choose.

The rest of us live with it where necessary as a fact of life and ignore it otherwise.

It is pathetic that you feel the need to vent your angst on the rest of us just because you can.
My "angst" for a buggy filesystem (well rather a collection of them), you're funny.

That said, one (sadly) can't just avoid FAT in any ecosystem, especially on x86 hardware (UEFI being a prime and terrifying example).

PS: ... and yes, we're all doomed. FAT will end the world as we now it
 
Old 10-17-2021, 07:20 PM   #12
Jan K.
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Nah... FAT is fine.

Just the fact that it accepts you abusing it, only shows how flexible and strong it is!

But seriously, for what is was designed for, it's more than good enough. Simple and reliable.


Carry on!
 
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Old 10-20-2021, 01:02 PM   #13
wafer
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Even the fat penguin????
 
Old 10-20-2021, 01:20 PM   #14
computersavvy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
My "angst" for a buggy filesystem
Can't be too buggy.

Fat file systems were created with the earliest versions of DOS and have been repeatedly updated to the latest VFAT. Still in use and still fully functional. Admittedly not the best but serves the purpose, including use today on almost every USB flash drive you can buy.

Whine all you like, but it gets you no where.
 
Old 10-20-2021, 03:24 PM   #15
rclark
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What I do ... if external devices and not for sharing, I just format them to ext4 and that is that. Since I am Windows free at home, FAT (the windows format standard that is) isn't an issue. All internal drives are of course ext4.

Last edited by rclark; 10-20-2021 at 03:25 PM.
 
  


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