Billy,

I have four HDDs, each one 250GB Western Digital drives - exactly the same model (platters, cyls, heads, sectors, etc.) that I'm using for data. I have a few 80 GB Western Digital drives that will have nothing on them but the operating system. I could definitely partition the OS drive, but really have no use for the extra space. I've set it up in OpenSuSE to use the entire 80GB (overkill, I know). But, the RAID5 turns out to be 700GB, and I'm moving about 5 years of data to it from a total of about 300GB of drive space on 2 machines - & not all of that was used. Plenty of room to grow. PLUS, since I've got the RAID5 array already built in OpenSuSE, I'm thinking I'll only have to mount it in whatever other version of Linux I install. I did a complete reinstallation of OpenSuSE, and that's all I had to do to get the RAID5 array back in operation with no loss of data. What I shall probably do will be to disconnect the 4 RAIDed drives and swap the OpenSuSE HDD for a blank one, and then do a ground-up installation of CentOS with no data drive, and then reconnect the RAIDed drives and run through the software management to create the RAID & set the mount point.

I have downloaded the 7 ISOs for CentOS, but am Torrenting the DVD because I'd rather install without having to swap out disks. So, that process is taking about 10 hours on my DSL (with the wife & daughter on their computers, too!).

Jon,

I have a couple of spare monitors, keyboards, & mouses (mice?) sitting around, so I have not yet decapitated my server. I have a shelf that holds the server monitor, so it's not taking desktop real estate but is adequately within visual reach. I am eventually wanting to get the server off my massive desk and out of the office - because the 120mm cooling fans sound like there's a 747 taking off from my desktop. I get to where I don't notice it, until I occasionally turn it of, then I revel in the silence. Of course, with a 7 yr old daughter and 3 year old twins (boy & girl), there isn't much silence even when it's completely quiet! I am a firm believer that it is not fulfillment from reaching the destination, but from enjoying the journey - this comes from my motorcycling. So, while it'll be NICE to have the server nailed down & working reliably and unnoticed, I, like you, am enjoying the journey of getting to that point. That is why I've got my signature.

I guess that I'm late to the party here, but I wanted to share my recent experience with you in setting up 2 identical servers such as you are envisioning.

Here is the hardware setup:

• APEVIA X-QPACK2-NW-AL/500 Black/ Silver Aluminum Body/ Front Mask MicroATX Desktop Computer Case 500W Power Supply
• ASUS M3A78-EM AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard
• AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Brisbane 2.7GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor
• Kingston HyperX 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory
• SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 16X DVD+R DL 22X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 22X DVD Burner
• Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST31000333AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
• KINGWIN KF-1000-BK 3.5" Internal hot swap rack

I went with the case because it is compact, attractive and has a 500 watt power supply. These servers are intended to be home servers which are publicly visible. I am using 3 Seagate 1T hard disks because they carry a 5 year warranty and have 32 MB of cache. Two are mounted in the case and are configured as a single RAID 1 array using software rather than hardware array configuration. The third drive is for backup in the internally mounted Kingwin hot swap rack. With this I am able to purchase the cheaper OEM bare drives and remove them for storage in an off-premise location.

I decided to use Ubuntu 8.10 Server AMD64 for the Linux distribution. Ubuntu Server uses SELinux (Secure-Enhanced Linux) and is as secure as any Linux distribution. Ubuntu is one of the most widely used distributions and has an active community constantly improving it. There are two major releases each year (April and October) and upgrades to the new releases are very easy to install without losing your current configuration and data. You may not always be using the latest kernel or application releases, but I prefer stability to bleeding edge. The updates are not more than 6 months away.

Ubuntu Server is a product of Canonical which is well established, financed and is stable. There are very large and well supported repositories for Ubuntu software applications.

There are some aspects of Ubuntu (such as the sudo root command) which provide the same functionality as other distributions. Use of these Ubuntu specific implementations or any other Linux specific implementations are a matter of user preference not functionality. If you have no or limited Linux experience the differences will not be apparent or important to you.

With the large user base the information, tutorials and forums for Ubuntu is unparalleled. Using Google you will be able to find any information you need to install and administer the server.

I do not wish to tinker with and constantly tweek the Linux servers. I just want them to be easy to set up, reliable, easy to maintain and upgrade.

I have other Ubuntu Servers that I have set up which have been running for over 2 years without any problems. I have kept them upgraded regularly with the latest Ubuntu releases and they are still state-of-the-art.

Aurora,

I love your answer! Sounds like that's a popular motherboard! And, I'm not the only one who likes NewEgg, either!

The cases I got (locally) for our desktops are much like the server case you got. The server case I got is here because it has space for the # of drives I wanted (4 RAIDed for the data & one separate for the OS), a 400 watt power supply (sticker says it's 380 watts), and the price was very reasonable. It actually looks nicer than all the desktop boxes I've ever built, tho I really don't care about looks, as long as it closes up - I'm not a fan of the "crate" computer that's an open architecture inside a wooden fruit crate.

Your argument for Ubuntu is also very compelling. My "short" list is getting longer, tho it's not unmanageable! Thanks!

My post was not intended to influence your choice of hardware but just to give you an idea of what I have done along the lines that you are contemplating. The Apevia case is maxed out the way I have it configured. I have used this case and added a card reader in the floppy drive slot for desktops.

Ubuntu Server works quite well with external devices either USB or eSATA. I have used this type of device:

Thermaltake BlacX ST0005U External Hard Drive SATA Enclosure Docking Station 2.5” & 3.5” USB 2.0 & eSATA

This also allows you to use a bare OEM hard drive for backup and off-site storage.

If you are using anything other than RAID 1 or RAID 0+1 the Apevia Q-Pack cases are too small.

If you need any help installing your chosen Linux distribution or related applications you should know about this great resource:

http://www.howtoforge.com


Good luck and enjoy your build.

Just so you know, within the past month, I've purchased 3 of those motherboards with AMD Athlon (2x6000 & 1x6400) CPUs, 20 GB RAM (2 GB/stick, 10 sticks), and 4x250GB SATA HDDs and 3x80GB SATA HDDs. Plus, three cases, 2 DVD ROMs, etc., etc., etc. Most of the HDDs came from NewEgg, with the remainder of the stuff purchased locally. I've spent less than $1,500 on all 3 systems combined. The only parts I reused from our two desktop computers were the IDE HDDs, so I've got a stack of 3 80GB HDDs that I'm using to play with the Linux installation. Once I'm fully satisfied with what I've got, I'll use the two spares to replace the IDEs with the SATAs, so I can take full advantage of the technology. I did this because my wife's computer died. It was just a power supply, & I could have replaced it with one I had on-hand, but it was a good excuse to replace our Intel P3 800mhz machines with 640 mb RAM that were at least 4 years old. I'll use the spare parts to build a "toy" for our 7 year old daughter.

So, no, you've not influenced my hardware purchases, we just happen to think along the same lines (funny how great minds do that!).

And, speaking of thinking alike, I have been contemplating a backup scheme. I've never liked doing grandfather-father-son backups, especially when the backup drives cost hundreds of dollars and the media are also so expensive. With HDD sizes being so large for such a small amount of $$$, I've been contemplating having a few extra HDDs and using them as backups, keeping them in a safety deposit box at the bank around the corner from the house. It just seems too easy to be able to do a complete restore from a single volume. The Thermaltake external enclosure makes the most sense of anything I've found, with the possible exception of the amount of data it'll hold (1TB, max). But, even that, if I were to exceed that amount of data (current RAID5 size is 700GB, using 4x250GB drives), it would be fairly easy to just put half the data on one drive and the other half on another. No big deal.

HOWEVER, it does lead me to another question...Do you connect your external drive to your server (using Linux configuration & mount points), using backup software to transfer the data? Or, does it connect to a desktop machine where you simply use drag & drop to do the backup?

When using Ubuntu Server there is no GUI installed by default. I have written some simple scripts which are run automatically daily (or more often if the data warrants it). The script mounts the backup drive and makes a complete copy of the data to be backed up. I do not backup the Linux program files daily. The data can be backed up in two different ways:

1. You can mirror the files to the backup drive using the rsync command with the "-a" option. The rsync command with the "-a" option will backup all of the directories and/or files specified unless they have not changed since the last time they were backed up to that backup drive.
2. You can create an archive using the tar command. This creates a single archive file which contains all of the directories and/or files which you selected to backup. This archive file can also be compressed automatically so you can fit more data in a smaller space than it occupies on your original disk.

Well, I would probably run my backups about once per week - and "more often if the data warrants it." It's a home server, not something with the volume of data that would be generated by a multi-department/multi-user business, and especially not something that would be so mission critical that I'd be paying folks to sit around while data was either restored or reconstructed . But, you've given me the best ideas for doing backups. And, it would definitely be no OS backup. I'll probably put a spare HDD in the bank box that would contain a fully configured and operational OS, and would also have a copy of the installation CD in there as well. All of this is just "insurance" in case the house burns down. Otherwise, I'm simply able to re-install to a spare HDD at the house from a copy of the installation CD. It should be no big deal.

Incidentally, I've been reading as the CentOS DVD was downloading - previewing CentOS, Slackware, & Ubuntu. I must admit that the more I read on Ubuntu - especially the Server edition (yes, like yours, the AMD 64 bit version), the more I like what I'm seeing. The explanation of the package inclusions is better than any other I've read, making me feel more comfortable with it than any of the others. And, your recommendation didn't hurt my opinion, either! In fact, CentOS has just completed, & I'm Torrenting the Ubuntu right now. I may even burn it to CD before I go to bed (Here, in South Texas, it's 10:07 pm Saturday, 12/27). I'm making no promises about tomorrow's activities, except that I'm watching the Dallas Cowboys football game, but I MAY just have to swap the OS drive from my server and give Ubuntu a spin.

On Ubuntu, if you're anything like me, the whole sudo thing will give you the proverbials, and for any Ubuntu installs I have, I instantly use "sudo passwd root" so I can simply "su -" to root and act like any other distro.

On backups, my personal scheme is threefold:

1) Weekly tarball of important directories (/home, /var, /etc, etc). I also copy this to a USB HDD for safety
2) Daily incremental tarballs reflecting the directories in (1)
3) Hourly rsyncs to a separate internal HDD (mainly in case of primary HDD failure).


Happy to share my scripts when you get there.

Billy, I will LOVE looking over your scripts. I can't say that I'll use them - actually, probably won't. BUT, I've found that working examples are the best way that I learn. Years ago, a boss gave me a programming language book & a week to read it before he wanted me up & programming. Before the 1st day was over, I was asking for a working example, and I was writing code the next day. I did use the book as a resource for some of the more advanced capabilities of the language (an OLD mainframe language even at that time - "Easytrieve"), but mostly was just coding away! So, your offer will definitely be appreciated.

Hmmmm, BitTorrent says "5 minutes" till the Ubuntu Server 8.10 for the AMD64 is completed. Doing the burn is next, then a shower & bed. Tomorrow is my make-breakfast day for the family, and then I'm finishing laundry while I do my annual winter office-clean and watch the Cowboy game. I am starting to get the itch to install Ubuntu, but I'm making such good progress on the clean-up that I don't want to stop that until the Cowboy game - so THAT'S probably when I'll do the Ubuntu install. Besides, with the game on, April won't be in the office, and I'll be able to power down the network while I remove the OS HDD from the server. Otherwise, she's playing MouseHunt on FaceBook! Now just 1 minute left till the download's complete. I'm grabbing a CD & biting to burn!

Hello, Dick.

I have a similar background, longer, not quite so technically deep, but some years ago I looked at several Linux distributions including Red Hat and SuSE, when they were at Version 7.

I put up a family/home business server much like what you want and also run my mail server and host a page.

I did an install, of both Red Hat 7 and SuSE 7, and found the SuSE much easier for me to setup and administer.

The server still runs, every 4-5 years, I start worrying about the hours on the disk and make a change. It is now running SuSE 9.2.
Never look at it, just always works


Current business requires storing lots of data securely for web access (music, videos, etc), so wanted to investigate RAID 10. Current OpenSUSE (11.1) does not support RAID 10 out of the box, best I can tell, but the current Fedora (9) does so I put up a 5 disk machine, one disk for OS stuff and 4 identical for a raid 10 array

Managed to set it up and it is in production. Been running about 6 months. I also put a communigate Pro mail server on it. In the meantime have put up SuSE 11.0 and now 11.1 just to tinker around and in anticipation of maybe upgrading the home server when I change hard drives.

I still give Suse the nod as easier to setup and administrator, still
Fedora video setup seems a little smoother, but SuSE keeps improving.

The current Fedora machine meanwhile is causing me headaches. Probably not Fedora's fault, but do know where the problem is yet. The machine mysteriously turns itself off.
At first, very rarely (month or two), then more often, till now, nearly daily. Thought it was over heating but before I got it out to increase cooling, a video card quit .

With open case, replace the card and the next day that card died.

Put in an old PCI video card that does not (so far anyhow) give me the gui, only a command line, but it is running as the file/ftp server it is meant to....meanwhile I'm moving 250 GB of data to a SuSE 11.1 to take over at least temporarily.

I'd like to know the best way to put a RAID 10 on SuSE.
Anyone done that?

Paxton

I'm glad you found the Centos DVD instead of 7 CDs
Centos does do RAID 5, has a GUI interface if required. Will work fine headless.
RH currently has a 7 yr support/update policy, so Centos should too (updates).
http://www.redhat.com/security/updates/errata/
Noticed you said Centos 5.2 earlier. Hope that was a typo, they've been on 5.3 for a while now ...
Good Luck.