I took break away from LINUX, and used Windows XP/VISTA, because of hardware support, and not enough good software to be convince to change, for few years and started back. Applications that LINUX now has and the improve hardware support, I mean I wish you can take a look at my desktop now then how it was a few years ago. I'm impress, some people think I'm using windows because it's hard for them to tell the difference. My biggest problem is getting software to start and work properly like its intended and less to do with hardware, since I haven't come to that obstacle yet. Well MTP, but that has improved allot.

Perhaps you should try something besides Fedora. Fedora is like the 'testing ground' for Red Hat. Sure, you get bleeding edge software-- if it works. A lot of it is still in beta. CentOS (my current fav) is the 'tried & true' version with the Red Hat logos removed. I've had no problems whatsoever with it.

Just a thought.

I don't completely hate Fedora, I like to use it so I can see and use Linux new technologies. I'm very into eye-candy... I'll look into CentOS to see if it fit my needs, i'm also insterested in Sabayon, and Enlightenment Desktop Enviroment variant.

There is a difference, however, between 'new technologies' and beta testing.

Red Hat stays as 'up-to-date' as you could get. If Fedora doesn't fit the bill simply because of stability issues, CentOS should work a charm.

Cheers

Thats interesting, thanks for that great tip...

I wouldn't really call CentOS "up to date as it gets," (he types, writing from his CentOS machine).

Seriously, using CentOS as desktop can sometimes be problematic, despite the efforts of the rpmforge, elrepo, and others. Minor example, hplip, which I needed for my C4795 all in one, is way behind in version numbers, even in rpmforge testing. I had to do it from source.

It's not that big a deal if you're experienced, but certain things, for example, the chromium browser might not work because it is running older versions of libraries.

Now, Fedora--well the developers try to give you something that works, but even on the project pages, they will warn you that it can break, and this includes releases as well as rawhide.

Fedora is supposed to break though, its whole thing is testing what's new, whipping it into shape, more or less, then having Ubuntu use it.

(Though pulseaudio still, apparently, needs work.)

It's hard--I don't know what to recommend to a newcomer these days. I usually say Ubuntu, because, although it will break things, at least their aim is to appeal to the person who wants something that Just Works(TM). However, if you want to stay RedHat based, then you can use Fedora, but it's always best to wait to apply updates and see who is complaining about what on their forums.

So, while I wouldn't completely disagree with DragonSlayer, I think that up-to-date is subjective.

scottro11

Have you heard of Sabayon?

Yuppers, but haven't used it in a long time. If I remember correctly, based on Gentoo but with binary packages.

One thing you can do too, is download the live CDs for any of the ones that interest you--almost all of them have live CD's these days.

As for me, work keeps me so busy that I basically only use what I need, rather than what I like. My favorite O/S is FreeBSD, but I just don't have the time to keep up with its CURRENT (about like Fedora Rawhide, but tested a bit more). So, I run CentOS on my workstation-cum-server at home and Fedora on my workstation at work. I throw Ubuntu on things because some of my users have it and as my title has Linux somewhere, they expect me to have the answers.

*I* can't really compare them though. I throw on a default Ubuntu, whereas with Fedora and CentOS, it's heavily customized.

I'm using sabayon 4.2 right now on a live cd... I'm also playing with Elive on a live cd...


Sabayon has emerge which does all the compiling and dependences with lots of options...

Where as Elive with Enlightment uses Debian so for me package installs are easy coming from Ubuntu... So aptitude and apt-get are easier then Sabayon 4.2 and Protage and emerge are...

Have also ran

Red Hat 4.3, Fedora 11 and CentOs 5.... Rpm for Redhat is easy for me to use.....

I like Fedora 11 just it doesn't play nice with Ubuntu.. So I would have to edit my Grub for both to work on boot up...

CentOs had problems with video card in the sense the color was not as vivid... ODD not much more to say about CentOs...

My next stop is to put both Elive and Sabayon to hard drive for 6 months...

After that going for Slackware and Debian on my hard drive for 6 months to a year (Used Netbsd on a 486 back in 97 don't see a problem install either of these Distro's)

Final Stop --- Gentoo figure this might be the hardest install.. on my hard drive for 3 months....

Now back to the topic...

I still find people are still very unhelpful in the Ubuntu forums when someone says the Words "Windows is easier to use then Ubuntu and better"

or better yet...

The video card is not working in Ubuntu and they can't get the driver to install without problems...

So I go all over the internet find posts saying they got the driver to work in Sabayon/Suse/Fedora right out the box....

So I refer these people to Linuxquestions.org Forums to ask other users if they got this video card to work in Sabayon/Suse/Fedora...

First thing I get is Ubuntu users go crazy saying I'm trying not to resolve the issue ,but skirt it....

I thought Linux was Linux??????


I don't really have a favorite Distro based on look or feel...

I usually like a distro based on common sense and how easy it is for me to install, use, manage packages and keep the desktop clean of packages...

Hi All

Culaterout finds people very unhelpful in the Ubuntu Forums, well, I can understand how it could seem that way, but, please remember most Newbies like myself are now making that first Linux step into Ubuntu. Because of that there do seem to be a fair number of members who only really have experienced the Ubuntu distro and even worse those who think they know a fair amount about Linux, and only know the Ubuntu distro! Having said that the great individuals that help support any forum are still there and giving fantastic support to those in need, it's just there may be more individuals in need on a Ubuntu Forum. As for the rest of you please don't abandon the Ubuntu Forums as, as an relative outsider, it seems to me that the last thing the Linux community needs is Microsoft/Mac Users - Ubuntu Users - Real Linux Users!

Back to culaterout, really liked your off topic comments concerning the different distros. Was thinking about duel booting Fedora, as my first step beyond Ubuntu, but, now thinking I should be a little more cautious. Walk before you try running and all that. Any chance of a more detailed, but still concise, posting of your experiences and personal views on the distros you have tried?

Anyway truly back on topic.

Just became a full time Linux user, Microsoft no longer exist on my machines, not even Wine! First installed Ubuntu just to see how it had advanced, yes had dabbled in the past, but, enjoyed fiddling without worrying about permanently damaging anything. Before I knew it hadn't booted Windows for a month or so. When I did took nearly an hour to update OS and all programs, including some four reboots, no hassle but Oh! so boring.

So came to Linux due to Repositories and the ability to duel boot or, in extremis, boot off a live CD. Just feel my data is so much more secure from my, sometimes idiotic, fiddlings.

Reasons for leaving? Well obviously I haven't, but, the closest I have come is due to hardware and driver compatibility. Have never had the sound working quite right in Ubuntu 9.04, worked great in 9.10 but that died last Sunday in 'Black Screen of Death' following a update. Weekend project! Thank you duel-booting, still have 9.04! Plus have a new Belkin Wi-Fi dongle that I have never had working under Linux. Considered going back to Windows, thought about all the advantages and then went pure Linux.

Needless to say the Linux community had a major part to play in my decision to go Windows free. Thank you all for you help, either direct or in your help to others.

DaveHi

Your misunderstanding me!!! Your not even close on what I'm saying...

I'm old school when it comes to Linux I first started out using Red Hat 5.2/5.3 back in 1997....

Well at the time I was majoring in Computer Science and Networking... So I played with windows for about 1 year before making the jump to Linux Red Hat... There were not as many helpful forums as there are today... Most everything I had to read to understand... I must have read 8 books on linux Red Hat before installing it... I had taken a A+ course at college ....built 6 of my own computers and was still worried about running up Linux...

Back then there was not this fancy Graphical interface for loading the Operating system... I had to know the cylinders,heads and sectors of the hard drive in order to load Linux on the hard drive...

My problem is people seemed to have stopped reading....
I have not heard one person I talk to on these forums tell me they went down to Barnes and Noble read a book on Linux Ubuntu or whatever flavor they use....

What I see on Ubuntu forums is the "guru".. The Ultimate Computer geek trying to answer all the questions himself.... When someone points out a different idea he shots it down saying no this not the case....

I never try to give an absolute answer!! I usually give ideas how to solve your problem with links to other websites were you can read... So lets say you get tired of linux and you reload Windows for 6 months then decide to use Linux again... Now your back to square A you can't remember were you downloaded that driver from for your video card or how to install it.... So back to Ubuntu forums to listen to another person give advice or just insult you before helping you...

Linux Community has always been helpful weather I could understand what they were saying was a different point altogether....

I have read a lot and learned a lot from reading.. such as compiling, dependency's, drivers, updates, command line, shells, freshmeat.net, linuxiso.org, distrowatch.org, wifi setup, honeypots, security, protocols, programs, scripts and so on....

I have nothing against a user coming from Windows.... Lets see I started out on a typewriter, Dos 6.0, Mac, Unix, 486, Windows 95,98,2000 then Linux...

Out of all the Linux flavors I've tried 12 out of 200 or 300....
Operating Systems: Dos, Windows, Unix, Linux, Mac, Novell, Cisco Router...

Now are you going to hold it against me for using a TYPEWRITER?????


Know when I tell you I like the keyboard on a typewriter because the keys were much bigger and easier to see...???? Are you going to hate me...

This lack of interest, value and ignorance about Linux goes deeper. I'm very proud to be an American but like every other great power in history we have become complacent; and that includes the fact that most of us don't want sophistication. We want easy, flashy, entertaining, quick results, payed in debt. And that includes the fact that most IT managers, most vendors, the public, still hang on to technologies that are ripping them off.

Most IT managers would rather pay bundled solutions and pay their IT huge support less, rather than using Open Source with a small group at higher pay. The former ends up costing a lot more over a longer span of time. One is fast results at high expense and poor quality. The other is slow results at low expense and high quality. The IT mentality of the so called "leaders" is backward.

Whatever the case, not all user are all interested and getting down and gritty with Linux. Learning all the commands, Linux Kernel Internals, or how it operates. If Linux was still,

I would have never switch. When I switch, I switch because of it's stability and assurance that in difficult of times, with a few commands I could get my Operating System back without the need of rebooting. Since I'm using Fedora 10 >, it's not the case anymore. When Fedora freezes, I have no choice but to reboot. However, because of Linux, I learned PHP with it's wealth of documentation and examples, no need to goto Barns and Nobles. Plus the Filesystem, I can layout the filesystem however I want, easier done in Linux then Windows. Permissions are allot easier, I think, then Windows. etc....

Average desktop users are into surfing the internet/checking email, watching videos/movies, occasionally doing homework, or listening/editing music. For these users, choosing between Microsoft Windows and Linux, its rhetorical question.

Linux has come a long way making doing these things allot easier. I like to play around with Linux features, make it do things I didn't know it can. Although my level intelligence is good and would like to consider myself a Geek but I'm not a software engineer or hardware engineer. And can't do or understand the complex instructions I see in this forum.

If all the Major distributions would come together and make a last ditch place, a massive and complete resource centre about all about Linux, in one location on internet. I think sure would make things allot easier for early user such as myself. The forums would be there to help the users through the process..

Sorry!!!!! Really didn't mean to offend!

In truth I did understand where you were coming from, but, seem to have read more into your words than were actually there. Apologies.

I have been a PC user since the late 1980's, not sure when exactly but a word-processor called Sprint and a database called Paradox may give someone an idea. However the vital word there is 'user' which is all I have ever been. In those 20 or so years I have often considered learning computer related subjects in greater detail, but, there has always been something, often work related, more personally important to spend my limited free time on. As a simple user if I was running XP and someone directed me to help aimed at the Vista user I would be very dubious. Unfortunately this suspicion is also carried over into Linux and I still have to keep reminding myself the help instructions referring to Hardy, with a little tweak, also often apply to Jaunty. Learning that help in a different distro can help me is even harder.

What I'm trying to get at is that with Linux's, especially Ubuntu's, growing popularity there are a growing number of 'users' like me joining the community. Users who even with the best intentions are never going to be able to match the true enthusiasts efforts in learning. I only hope that individuals, like myself, can somehow add something to the community rather than just dilute it.

Meanwhile, even off the cuff comments like culatertout's comment about Fedora can be of great use to people like me. Learn something about Grubb before trying to duel boot with Ubuntu. Has probably saved me a fair amount of time and a lot of swearing.

Well,

I finally figured how I would answer these comments about linux...

I was Playing Ultimate Alliance 2----

You have DC Comics Characters here....

So I look at Linux that way Like "Linux Mutants" were you have a team of Superpower mutants work together for short times to accomplish missions.... After the mission is over you lead separate lives....

I guess I look at myself like across between Wolverine/Reed Richards..

One hand I may just go in there and Slice and tear my way through my linux install..... With software I use my brain try to think of all possible problems and give you an answer..

I guess I look at forums the same way were someone like Reed Richards would get along fine with Ironman... Both geniuses have lots of money and think everything out...

Were as The Thing and Johnny Storm.... Don't get along that well would fight over trivial things... Johnny being hot headed wants all new things and fast cars.... The Thing laid back would be conformable driving a economy car and is more worried about life away from Fantastic Four....


We could extend this onto linux distro's color choices like major video games or comics or brands..

Penguin = Batman


Ubuntu = Iron man
Suse = Green lantern
Fedora = Fantastic Four
Debian = ??????
Slackware = Silver Surfer
Red Hat = Electra,
Gentoo = Iceman
Mandriva = Windows XP
Linux Mint = Starbucks...
Sabayon = Storm/ Gears of war
Gos = Boston Celtics
ZenWalk = North Carolina Tar Heels


Now I want this to be clear that this is just my opinion...


But I would have to say Mutants describes us best as a community....

You also have to take into account I'm an American.. There are millions of users from other countries using linux....

My point of view may be 180 degrees the opposite of other Linux users.... Which is great


DaveHi I don't personally think your are going to dilute anything... Passing Knowledge along there is nothing wrong with that...

But why we are on that topic why doesn't someone take four or five years compile all or forum posts into a book... This would make for a great resource...

later....