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Old 06-03-2008, 05:07 PM   #16
zibme
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FC8 Solution


How-d all,

First and foremost, I have been using linux since RH6.0 and I'm still a self proclaimed noob.

Second, I normally google my problems away and then get on with life, so posting here is quite out of character. However, since this was the dominate post regarding the problem, and _my_ solution was not found here, I figured someone else might gain benefit from my findings.

Third, my system wasn't having a critical problem, it just annoyed me to see the startup message saying I was loosing memory. That being said, I tried all of the basic solutions posted here (iommu=noagp and iommu=memaper=3) without any resolve.

What did work for me was:

iommu=noaperture

and error message begone.

I hope this post actually helps someone else.

<rant> I find it counter productive having to read post after post from 'know it alls' that give lame solutions like 'switch to a different kernel' or pointing the blame this way and that, without _actually_ helping anyone with the topic problem. </rant>

-=Z
 
Old 06-03-2008, 05:34 PM   #17
Emerson
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You rant is not understood. Would you like to tell to Windows people: don't install the driver, make it work without? Kernel handles hardware in Linux, configuring kernel in Linux is same as installing/removing drivers in Windows. Lame?! Eh ... I'd say it's lame to keep lots of unnecessary stuff in kernel.
 
Old 06-03-2008, 07:24 PM   #18
zibme
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerson View Post
You rant is not understood. Would you like to tell to Windows people: don't install the driver, make it work without? Kernel handles hardware in Linux, configuring kernel in Linux is same as installing/removing drivers in Windows. Lame?! Eh ... I'd say it's lame to keep lots of unnecessary stuff in kernel.
Perhaps I misunderstood my own solution. Is the option iommu=noaperture the equivalent to not installing the driver? From what I've gathered, you do not need aperture space when you only have PCIe, and the iommu=noagp did not help in my case. As I suspect, these options only disable the 'driver', leaving it in the kernel.

If you feel like really helping, I would love a detailed method on how to remove the unnecessary AGP section from the kernel, and/or a link to a 'how to clean up your kernel' article.

Either way, my error message went away, so I call that a solution to the topic. And I didn't have to replace the foundation of the house that I live in. As so far, no one has mentioned anything on how to mod the kernel for a resolution.

Short and sweet is my moto, if I were to start having a moto.

-=Z
 
Old 06-03-2008, 07:36 PM   #19
Emerson
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Configuring and building kernel is part of basic skills of a *nix admin, thus off-topic here. Since this is such an essential task in Linux there are probably thousands of how-to's, just point your browser to www.google.com/linux - in case the documentation that comes with kernel sources is not narrative enough for your taste.
 
Old 06-03-2008, 11:47 PM   #20
SuperSparky
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Hey people, that wasn't so hard, was it? Wow, an intelligent, concise, and simple answer to an annoying problem. Odd, no ego bruised, no ego stroked, no snide remarks, no looking down on those that didn't know, just a simple answer to a problem.

Thank you! Your kind help is appreciated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zibme View Post
How-d all,

First and foremost, I have been using linux since RH6.0 and I'm still a self proclaimed noob.

Second, I normally google my problems away and then get on with life, so posting here is quite out of character. However, since this was the dominate post regarding the problem, and _my_ solution was not found here, I figured someone else might gain benefit from my findings.

Third, my system wasn't having a critical problem, it just annoyed me to see the startup message saying I was loosing memory. That being said, I tried all of the basic solutions posted here (iommu=noagp and iommu=memaper=3) without any resolve.

What did work for me was:

iommu=noaperture

and error message begone.

I hope this post actually helps someone else.

<rant> I find it counter productive having to read post after post from 'know it alls' that give lame solutions like 'switch to a different kernel' or pointing the blame this way and that, without _actually_ helping anyone with the topic problem. </rant>

-=Z
 
Old 06-04-2008, 12:07 AM   #21
SuperSparky
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Distribution: Ubuntu
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Hmm, isn't the point (or at least one of) of using Linux the ability to not have to go through the nightmare of incompatibility Windows issues give?

Using an OS does not require one to have be a kernel level programmer. Some people have an OS for usability and could care less about the intricacies of kernel issues. A good programmer makes sure the thing works. The better he makes it, the less tinkering and overrides are necessary for it to behave.

One of the key reasons for the modular kernel system was to only use a module if it is needed. The module should be smart enough to realize it is not needed even if it is loaded for some weird reason. Checking for this need, in the case of an AGP port is not rocket science. If the interface isn't there, then the rest of the code need not initialize.

Telling someone to re-do their kernel configuration is crazy, especially if the kernel is supposed to be a modular (load as needed) one. Sure, if something is overlooked, then the packager should take that into consideration as a bug fix, but saying it's the user's responsibility in this day and age of people using computers while not being computer savvy is just plain stupid.

The question by the savvy should have been "why is this happening on systems without AGP buses, and what can be done to avoid this issue in further releases?" The answer of (I'm generalizing) "What? You don't know why? You should know why! What kind of idiot doesn't know how to fix that?! Your problem. Your responsibility. You need to change the source yourself to fix it. There's a document out there somewhere on how to fix it. You're an idiot if you can find it. I shouldn't have to tell you how to fix it." and so on...

Unless, you want to, people shouldn't have to mess with their kernel configuration to get something to behave in this day and age of Ubuntu, Fedora, SUSE desktop releases of the OS. The whole point of the release is turn on and use. Just like driving a car doesn't require you to be a mechanic, so should using a desktop distro not require kernel brain surgery to use.

Of course the ability to customize should always remain, but requiring it isn't practical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerson View Post
You rant is not understood. Would you like to tell to Windows people: don't install the driver, make it work without? Kernel handles hardware in Linux, configuring kernel in Linux is same as installing/removing drivers in Windows. Lame?! Eh ... I'd say it's lame to keep lots of unnecessary stuff in kernel.
 
Old 06-04-2008, 12:15 AM   #22
SuperSparky
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They "WERE" essential tasks. The whole point of bringing Linux out of the closet is to make such requirements for the average user unnecessary.

The specific question about this specific issue has been asked by many and nobody had a direct answer. Climbing through all of the snobby and ego garbage just to get to a simple answer was a nightmare (until now).

By the way, much of the those "HowTo's" are severely outdated, and many were written at a time when PCI-Express wasn't even a twinkle in someone's eye. This is a new problem caused by new interfaces, and OLD code is making a ruckus.

Is it going to kill you to directly answer a question, even if the answer is out there somewhere? Hey, go half way and at least point to the answer. Geez.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerson View Post
Configuring and building kernel is part of basic skills of a *nix admin, thus off-topic here. Since this is such an essential task in Linux there are probably thousands of how-to's, just point your browser to www.google.com/linux - in case the documentation that comes with kernel sources is not narrative enough for your taste.
 
Old 06-04-2008, 05:57 AM   #23
Emerson
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Quote:
They "WERE" essential tasks. The whole point of bringing Linux out of the closet is to make such requirements for the average user unnecessary.

The specific question about this specific issue has been asked by many and nobody had a direct answer. Climbing through all of the snobby and ego garbage just to get to a simple answer was a nightmare (until now).

By the way, much of the those "HowTo's" are severely outdated, and many were written at a time when PCI-Express wasn't even a twinkle in someone's eye. This is a new problem caused by new interfaces, and OLD code is making a ruckus.
I see you have no clue what you are talking about. Configuring and building a kernel is a simple procedure, and it does not depend whether there is PCI-Express invented or not. Just try it once and in half a year you'll want to come back here and delete your posts. Ubuntu (and other) developers do their best to supply a generic kernel (always a compromise), so there certainly are some "average users" who can live without knowing basics. If you are such a user, good. Just don't rant.
 
Old 06-04-2008, 01:04 PM   #24
H_TeXMeX_H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zibme View Post
<rant> I find it counter productive having to read post after post from 'know it alls' that give lame solutions like 'switch to a different kernel' or pointing the blame this way and that, without _actually_ helping anyone with the topic problem. </rant>
I don't know who you might be referring to, but for one, I'm not a "know it all", no, in fact, I don't know too much at all. But I agree with you that google is the best way to solve problems. Chances are tho, that google will lead you here many times.

If you think you can help, please do so, I have nothing against it, in fact I encourage it.

And what about problems that you don't find a solution for on google ? Just give up, right ?
 
Old 06-04-2008, 06:41 PM   #25
iAlta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerson View Post
Configuring and building kernel is part of basic skills of a *nix admin, thus off-topic here. Since this is such an essential task in Linux there are probably thousands of how-to's, just point your browser to www.google.com/linux - in case the documentation that comes with kernel sources is not narrative enough for your taste.
Who said anything about the average user?
 
Old 06-04-2008, 07:05 PM   #26
Emerson
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Who is the average user anyway. Average Ubuntu user who is in trouble when X does not start, average Slackware user who reads another time the GCC manual to optimize his/her CFLAGS, average server admin who is proficient enough to worry about wasted memory ...
Also we have a person here who thinks for average user Linux is still in the closet and has hard time pulling out and approving it because it's different.
I consider myself average user, using it averagely since 1997.

Last edited by Emerson; 06-04-2008 at 07:13 PM.
 
Old 06-05-2008, 11:47 AM   #27
SuperSparky
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Rebuilding a kernel so the packaging system recognizes its version when a kernel is available, and any other new packages with kernel modules in them also recognize the customized kernel and don't complain and moan is a pain in the rear.

Suddenly the ease of simply using the packager to keep track of updates is thrown out the window when installing a customized kernel, as any other packages that have specific kernel version dependencies (as they usually have a kernel module in them) get hosed too. Smooth upgrades don't happen any more. Suddenly one's world is filled with "configures" and "makes" when it shouldn't have to be.

I do have a clue, it is you who isn't thinking ahead. Unless you are tweaking for the absolute most speed, then customizing a kernel with the average desktop distro is not necessary. The average kernel in those is modular and is supposed to work with (most) everything. Usually this purpose is realized. Recently, there was obviously an issue with AGP-less systems. An issue, thankfully, fixable (temporarily) by a minor change to the grub configuration.

I have used Linux since RedHat 6.0, and have done my fair share of kernel customizing (that process has changed over the years too, by the way), source code patching, and am at the point in my life where I just want the darn thing to work without having to spend extra time customizing it.

Why delete my posts fanboy? A simple question was asked, not just by me, but by many, and instead of someone giving a simple answer (until just recently), those that asked were bombarded with a steady flow of egotistical and snobby drivel that accomplished and solved absolutely nothing. I haven't seen more pompousness and pass-the-buck behavior since the Jimmy Carter administration!

People ask questions hoping for an answer, and not be sent on a wild goose chase, of which many have been tired of already been the participant of.

So, to summarize:
  • There are no appropriate HowTo's out there showing how to solve the problem (at least with modern hardware).
  • None of the other forums that Google gives as a search response has anything but indignant people telling them to search Google or the solutions are not possible or out-dated (non-existent BIOS settings for AGP on non-AGP boards)
  • Oddly enough, the real solution was to wait for the distro packager to fix the kernel package as now it's no longer a problem. The interim solution was a grub config addition. The nightmare fanboy solution was to go and patch kernel source code.
  • The "average user" is just like an "average driver" for a car. The average user shouldn't have to shove his head (under the hood) into kernel source and code compilation. Things should just work after installation. Just like a car should drive (when brand new) and not require one's head under the hood on a daily basis. Changing the oil can even be done by experts. Some people just want to drive their car without having to get grease on their hands.

I, for one, would have installed Gentoo if I wanted my head under the hood (a hot-rod). I use Ubuntu (used to be Fedora at the beginning of this thread) and am happy with my "Lexus" OS. So far, everything just works, and I can actually get some work done on it without having to get my hands greasy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerson View Post
I see you have no clue what you are talking about. Configuring and building a kernel is a simple procedure, and it does not depend whether there is PCI-Express invented or not. Just try it once and in half a year you'll want to come back here and delete your posts. Ubuntu (and other) developers do their best to supply a generic kernel (always a compromise), so there certainly are some "average users" who can live without knowing basics. If you are such a user, good. Just don't rant.
 
Old 06-05-2008, 12:00 PM   #28
SuperSparky
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You'd think that on a site called "LinuxQuestions" you'd be able to find direct answers to Linux questions, and not people telling them to go elsewhere (Google) to find the answer, or people telling them they should already know the answer, or people telling them to change the gravitational constant of the universe (edit the kernel) to solve their problem.

Here's an idea, how about posting the answer for once. Want to direct them to a long answer on the Internet, so you don't have to type it here? Simple, give the direct URL to it. Saying "check Google" are just cop-out responses by people with no business posting here. Perhaps, now just perhaps, people might be checking here first since it does say "Linux Questions" and logic would dictate that Linux questions were actually answered here. Otherwise, this forum shouldn't be here and the page should just simply forward everyone to Google. The other possibility is that they have exhausted their Google searches and here is the last resort.

I swear, some people just don't get it.
 
Old 06-05-2008, 12:13 PM   #29
Emerson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparky View Post
Rebuilding a kernel so the packaging system recognizes its version when a kernel is available, and any other new packages with kernel modules in them also recognize the customized kernel and don't complain and moan is a pain in the rear.
Plain wrong. You get the exact sources for your running kernel and use .config file supplied in /boot or in /proc/config.gz.
Quote:
Suddenly the ease of simply using the packager to keep track of updates is thrown out the window when installing a customized kernel, as any other packages that have specific kernel version dependencies (as they usually have a kernel module in them) get hosed too. Smooth upgrades don't happen any more. Suddenly one's world is filled with "configures" and "makes" when it shouldn't have to be.
See above.
Quote:
I do have a clue, it is you who isn't thinking ahead. Unless you are tweaking for the absolute most speed, then customizing a kernel with the average desktop distro is not necessary. The average kernel in those is modular and is supposed to work with (most) everything. Usually this purpose is realized. Recently, there was obviously an issue with AGP-less systems. An issue, thankfully, fixable (temporarily) by a minor change to the grub configuration.
Desktop? I was thinking we had a server problem here. If you refuse to use the power of Linux in professional environment then better hire a sysadmin who can.[/QUOTE]
Quote:
I have used Linux since RedHat 6.0, and have done my fair share of kernel customizing (that process has changed over the years too, by the way), source code patching, and am at the point in my life where I just want the darn thing to work without having to spend extra time customizing it.
Running make menuconfig, making one change, running make, copying it to /boot. Takes 1-2 minutes of human time depending on your finger speed and a little more machine time. If this effort is too much for you ... I refrain from saying what I think.[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Why delete my posts fanboy? A simple question was asked, not just by me, but by many, and instead of someone giving a simple answer (until just recently), those that asked were bombarded with a steady flow of egotistical and snobby drivel that accomplished and solved absolutely nothing. I haven't seen more pompousness and pass-the-buck behavior since the Jimmy Carter administration!
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
Quote:
People ask questions hoping for an answer, and not be sent on a wild goose chase, of which many have been tired of already been the participant of.
So installing/removing drivers is not an essential skill? Regardless what OS is used? As always, if you can't do it yourself, hire somebody who can. Don't whine.
 
Old 06-05-2008, 12:13 PM   #30
Emerson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparky View Post
You'd think that on a site called "LinuxQuestions" you'd be able to find direct answers to Linux questions, and not people telling them to go elsewhere (Google) to find the answer, or people telling them they should already know the answer, or people telling them to change the gravitational constant of the universe (edit the kernel) to solve their problem.

Here's an idea, how about posting the answer for once. Want to direct them to a long answer on the Internet, so you don't have to type it here? Simple, give the direct URL to it. Saying "check Google" are just cop-out responses by people with no business posting here. Perhaps, now just perhaps, people might be checking here first since it does say "Linux Questions" and logic would dictate that Linux questions were actually answered here. Otherwise, this forum shouldn't be here and the page should just simply forward everyone to Google. The other possibility is that they have exhausted their Google searches and here is the last resort.

I swear, some people just don't get it.
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
 
  


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