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Old 08-10-2019, 12:28 AM   #61
tofino_surfer
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Quote:
As expected, Grub doesn't see the the USB3 card at all on a cold boot with any machine. Grub does see the card on one UEFI machine when warm booted.
Since you are using an external USB3 card your situation is markedly different than that of the OP. They are just using a USB3 port that is on their motherboard. Since UEFI firmware should be able to see and use all of the hardware on the board itself even on a cold boot if the OP tried switching to UEFI mode by creating an ESP and installing grub-efi their problems could go away.

With Linux UEFI/MBR systems are possible so they wouldn't even have to change the partition table on their main sda drive.

If they did want to change all the way to UEFI/GPT this guide is fairly good:

https://www.linuxtopic.com/2017/08/c...br-to-gpt.html

Last edited by tofino_surfer; 08-10-2019 at 01:38 AM.
 
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Old 08-10-2019, 12:38 AM   #62
bodge99
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Hi,

Quote:
Since you are using an external USB3 card your situation is markedly different than that of the OP. They are just using a USB3 port that is on their motherboard. Since UEFI firmware should be able to see and use all of the hardware on the board itself even on a cold boot if the OP tried switching to UEFI mode by creating an ESP and installing grub-efi their problems could go away.
No, not really.. What if you **have** to use legacy boot but still need bootable USB3 functionality? From this perspective, it doesn't matter **where** the USB3 chipset is physically located. Firmware/Bios doesn't support it and Grub doesn't have the required xhci module.. therefore a workaround is required.

Bodge99
 
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Old 08-10-2019, 02:03 AM   #63
tofino_surfer
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Quote:
What if you **have** to use legacy boot but still need bootable USB3 functionality?
The OP never stated that they need to use legacy boot only that they are currently using legacy mode.

Quote:
From this perspective, it doesn't matter **where** the USB3 chipset is physically located. Firmware/Bios doesn't support it and Grub doesn't have the required xhci module.. therefore a workaround is required.
If the OP doesn't need legacy boot then that perspective doesn't matter. The UEFI firmware should support all hardware on the board itself. This is one major reason why the grub developers never developed a xhci module as they were relying on the EFI firmware to handle it.

https://unix.stackexchange.com/quest...ie-card/323080

Quote:
Different USB controllers require different GRUB modules:

for USB 1.x, GRUB has ohci.mod and uhci.mod.
for USB 2.0, GRUB has ehci.mod.
for USB 3.x, the equivalent module would be xhci.mod, but as of this writing, GRUB still does not seem to have this driver module.

Most new systems seem to have UEFI firmware, which has built-in support for USB at the firmware level, so perhaps the developers have expected no great need for native USB3 XHCI controller support in GRUB. Unfortunately, that means users of add-on cards like you will be out of luck.
This page suggests that this problem only exists for users of add-on cards and that UEFI users using USB3 controllers built-in to their MB don't have this problem. This suggests that if the OP switched to UEFI their problem might go away.

Only the OP knows if their MB supports UEFI and if they need to use legacy boot.
 
Old 08-10-2019, 02:34 AM   #64
bodge99
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Hi,

With regard to the OP's original problem.. You are correct that they may be able to use UEFI firmware support.. If so, all well and good.

This thread sparked my interest in USB3 booting in general. Not everyone is able to use UEFI firmware support.. or are not willing to create an EFI partition etc. Some people who have legacy machines would like to have USB3 booting functionality. I've got a couple myself where I want to use this. O.K. I don't **have to** use USB3, I **want** to use USB3.

If I've got a general (workaround) solution that will work on anything then I'm happy. If I want to perform jobs such as binary partition backups I really don't want to use USB 1.x or even USB 2.0 if I don't have to.

Bodge99
 
Old 06-14-2020, 03:20 PM   #65
frozengsa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodge99 View Post
(...) Copying the kernel & initrd from the USB3 external drive Mint installation to a separate directory on the main machine and using a modified grub.cfg works mostly as expected on two of the legacy machines and two of the UEFI ones (one in legacy mode and one UEFI). (...)
hi, sorry for bumping this, but i've run into a similar problem from op. and that quote is what I think would solve my problem. could you give me a little bit of instructions on this?

a little bit more info:
the difference from op is my mobo (asus p5kpl) doesn't have usb 3.0 ports, i have a 3.0usb pci-e card and want to boot linux from it for higher reading speed. inside linux, pci-e usb 3.0 works flawlessly, but grub cannot detect it from everything i tried for the reasons i've read in this thread: grub doesn't have xhci module because this kind of problem is fairly rare, so nobody bothered doing it. i googled a bit and tried cloning a grub fork that tries to implement xhci into grub (cannot post it because i'm a new user, but you can find it googling github bjornfor grub xhci). still no success.

so, which files should i copy to a boot-dedicated flash drive? i'm new to linux and doesn't understand much about it files like "initrd" and "kernel" yet. I'm thinking about sticking a regular pendrive to mobo's usb, install grub and copy as minimum as possible files as needed in order to linux to see my card, mount root to my 3.0 flash drive and run from it. is this possible?


lspci -k shows my pci-e card is:
Code:
03:00.0 USB controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VL805 USB 3.0 Host Controller (rev 01)
        Subsystem: VIA Technologies, Inc. VL805 USB 3.0 Host Controller
        Kernel driver in use: xhci_hcd
        Kernel modules: xhci_pci
 
Old 06-15-2020, 09:31 AM   #66
bodge99
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Hi,

Yes, you should be able to run an OS on a drive that is connected to your USB 3 PCI-e card..
As you suspect (and have found), Grub2 is not "seeing" anything connected to your USB 3 card.

Until a reliable xhci Grub module exists (I've written one that works with 4 chipsets.. unfortunately not [yet] with the VL805 controller) you'll have to use a workaround.

I can give a targetted write up to suit your hardware.. But I'll need a little bit of info first.

What are you running on the main machine? Which specific OS (or OS's)
Can you supply the UUID of the drive that you will be using with your USB 3 controller?
To find this, boot your system from linux (any method), now connect the drive to the USB 3 port.

Now open a terminal and enter:
Code:
blkid
If you want the output in a text file then use:
Code:
blkid > blkid.txt
This will store the output in a text file named as "blkid.txt" in the current directory.

If you know that the required drive is (for example) sdb, then use:
Code:
blkid | grep sdb > blkid-sdb.txt
This will store the UUIDs of any sdb file systems (on separate partitions) found in a file named "blkid-sdb.txt".

The proposed workaround uses a flashdrive which contains the following:
The Grub modules etc.
The Linux kernel & initrd (copied from the installed OS on the USB 3 drive).
A manually created grub.cfg . This "starts" Linux from the kernel & initrd that are placed on the flashdrive. Control is then passed to the (identical) kernel on the USB 3 drive.Everything else is "normal" from this point.

When you've got this working you can then (if you wish) modify your main system setup to accommodate the USB 3 controller.
This would involve placing your Grub2 files (modules et. al.) into your EFI partition and using a 2 stage Grub2 boot mechanism.
This is a modification of the method that Ubuntu (and derivatives such as Linux Mint etc.) use.
I use this method on several machines that have multiple different Linux/windows distributions.. This allows each installation to be totally standard. Just ask if more info if required.

It's easy to do.. The main advantage in using a flashdrive initially is that you don't need to modify your main system at all.. You can test everything without risking anything on the main system.

Bodge99

Last edited by bodge99; 06-15-2020 at 10:46 AM. Reason: Technical error: UUID is a fs not a partition.
 
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Old 06-15-2020, 01:12 PM   #67
frozengsa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bodge99 View Post
Hi,

Yes, you should be able to run an OS on a drive that is connected to your USB 3 PCI-e card..
As you suspect (and have found), Grub2 is not "seeing" anything connected to your USB 3 card.

Until a reliable xhci Grub module exists (I've written one that works with 4 chipsets.. unfortunately not [yet] with the VL805 controller) you'll have to use a workaround.

I can give a targetted write up to suit your hardware.. But I'll need a little bit of info first.

What are you running on the main machine? Which specific OS (or OS's)
Can you supply the UUID of the drive that you will be using with your USB 3 controller?
To find this, boot your system from linux (any method), now connect the drive to the USB 3 port.

Now open a terminal and enter:
Code:
blkid
If you want the output in a text file then use:
Code:
blkid > blkid.txt
This will store the output in a text file named as "blkid.txt" in the current directory.

If you know that the required drive is (for example) sdb, then use:
Code:
blkid | grep sdb > blkid-sdb.txt
This will store the UUIDs of any sdb partitions found in a file named "blkid-sdb.txt".

The proposed workaround uses a flashdrive which contains the following:
The Grub modules etc.
The Linux kernel & initrd (copied from the installed OS on the USB 3 drive).
A manually created grub.cfg . This "starts" Linux from the kernel & initrd that are placed on the flashdrive. Control is then passed to the (identical) kernel on the USB 3 drive.Everything else is "normal" from this point.

When you've got this working you can then (if you wish) modify your main system setup to accommodate the USB 3 controller.
This would involve placing your Grub2 files (modules et. al.) into your EFI partition and using a 2 stage Grub2 boot mechanism.
This is a modification of the method that Ubuntu (and derivatives such as Linux Mint etc.) use.
I use this method on several machines that have multiple different Linux/windows distributions.. This allows each installation to be totally standard. Just ask if more info if required.

It's easy to do.. The main advantage in using a flashdrive initially is that you don't need to modify your main system at all.. You can test everything without risking anything on the main system.

Bodge99
thanks for replying!
the distro is openmediavault (a Debian based, NAS-optimized, browser/ssh-managed with no GUI), installed on my previous pc to make use of it (and learn linux in the process and eventually get rid of windows on my main PC).

so, the info you asked:

blkid:

Code:
/dev/sda1: UUID="1a4c87b5-bee6-48f4-90cb-5424a7759daa" TYPE="ext4" PARTUUID="36c7349d-01"
/dev/sda5: UUID="e2787843-81dd-4fe4-99eb-97f244e0df77" TYPE="swap" PARTUUID="36c7349d-05"
/dev/sdb1: LABEL="kingston16" UUID="1c57c9df-1e77-4421-8d53-b3e21c4b2731" TYPE="ext4" PARTUUID="2b9a669b-c5ad-44de-b838-319a62d89f50"
sda is my 32gb 3.0usb flashdrive with linux installed, sdb is the old one (16gb, 2.0usb, recently formatted as ext4) where I intend to grub-install

you mentioned "This would involve placing your Grub2 files (modules et. al.) into your EFI partition and using a 2 stage Grub2 boot mechanism.". my mobo is a very old LGA 775 mobo, I don't think it supports EFI. would this be a problem?

some extra info just in case it may be useful :

fdisk -l:

Code:
Disk /dev/sda: 28.9 GiB, 31029460992 bytes, 60604416 sectors
Disk model: DataTraveler 3.0
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: dos
Disk identifier: 0x36c7349d

Device     Boot    Start      End  Sectors  Size Id Type
/dev/sda1  *        2048 53266431 53264384 25.4G 83 Linux
/dev/sda2       53268478 60602367  7333890  3.5G  5 Extended
/dev/sda5       53268480 60602367  7333888  3.5G 82 Linux swap / Solaris


Disk /dev/sdb: 14.7 GiB, 15716057088 bytes, 30695424 sectors
Disk model: DT 101 G2
Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disklabel type: gpt
Disk identifier: A018E43A-2C73-4414-A461-F1461A330F56

Device     Start      End  Sectors  Size Type
/dev/sdb1   2048 30695390 30693343 14.7G Linux filesystem
uname -a: (the kernel is on apt hold, because last time i updated it from a previous version it broke docker and I had to install everything from the beggining because I couldn't figure what to do, so i'm thinking about holding until I get more knowledge on how linux works)

Code:
Linux NAS 5.4.0-0.bpo.4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.4.19-1~bpo10+1 (2020-03-09) x86_64 GNU/Linux
grub-install --version:
Code:
grub-install (GRUB) 2.02+dfsg1-20
 
Old 06-15-2020, 01:29 PM   #68
bodge99
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Hi,
I've got an urgent PC repair to do.. I'll get back to you shortly (prob. tomorrow).

Bodge99
 
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Old 06-15-2020, 02:26 PM   #69
colorpurple21859
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what is the output of
Code:
cat /sys/firmware/efi
 
Old 06-15-2020, 02:37 PM   #70
frozengsa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colorpurple21859 View Post
what is the output of
Code:
cat /sys/firmware/efi
hi, it is:
Code:
~# cat /sys/firmware/efi
cat: /sys/firmware/efi: No such file or directory
also:
Code:
~# ls -l /sys/firmware/
total 0
drwxr-xr-x  5 root root 0 Jun 15 11:38 acpi
drwxr-xr-x  4 root root 0 Jun 15 11:40 dmi
drwxr-xr-x 12 root root 0 Jun 15 16:38 memmap

@bodge99: meanwhile i'll try to copy vmlinuz and initird, edit grub.cfg to initialize it (if it fails, copy more content, like drivers folders), mount root to new drive and see where I go from there (rn i'm thinking about umount -f old drive, let's see if it works)

Last edited by frozengsa; 06-15-2020 at 02:39 PM. Reason: more info
 
Old 06-15-2020, 04:28 PM   #71
bodge99
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Hi,

Frozengsa:
I've had a quick look at your reply..

I had just assumed a UEFI/GPT system.. my bad! The technique used is equally applicable to a legacy system so there shouldn't be any particular problems. There are a few minor changes however..

If I understand your current requirements correctly, you have a working distro on sda. You want to secondary boot a flashdrive based distro on your USB 3 slot using a primary boot flashdrive on a USB 1.1/2.0 slot...

I'll dig out my notes tomorrow and verify that the general procedure works as expected on a legacy system.

I did notice that your sdb (Kingston Datatraveller ?) is GPT. This **shouldn't** be a problem with most legacy systems.. but I do have a re-badged Clevo (2011 model) laptop that refuses to "play nice" with GPT at all.

More when I can..

Bodge99
 
Old 06-19-2020, 09:45 AM   #72
bodge99
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Hi,

Sorry for the delay.. I've been having a few tech problems for the last couple of days..
Essentially, problems with shingled drives in a NAS and with two laptops.. Ho hum..

Creation of a bootable flashdrive to allow an OS to be run on a machine that doesn't recognise the host controller in BIOS (e.g. SD-card slots or USB 3 controllers.). This write up covers legacy mode only. (minor changes are required for EFI or hybrid EFI/legacy modes.)

Overall process:
1.) Format boot flashdrive as Fat32 legacy (MBR). This is the default with most flashdrive tools.
2.) Install a legacy Master Boot Record to the boot flashdrive.
3.) Install Grub2 to the boot flashdrive.
4.) Copy your target kernel & initrd to the boot flashdrive.
5.) Create a basic grub.cfg and copy it to the boot flashdrive.

Prepare boot flashdrive:

1.) It is required that the flashdrive is formatted fat32 in legacy mode (with a traditional MBR).
Most tools will, by default, produce a legacy fat32 formatted drive but may not have the capability to write a Master Boot Record to a USB flashdrive.

2.) There are a few tools which will handle this task. It's even possible to use "dd" to copy an existing MBR to a file and then write the contents of this file to the flashdrive. Be aware that it's quite easy to make mistakes and cause further problems using "dd" (aka "data destroyer") if you are not careful. Been there.. Done that!!

I personally prefer "testdisk" as I often use it for file and partition recovery purposes. This tool will correctly write an MBR to a USB flashdrive.

Brief usage:
Plug in your flashdrive. Unmount it if your system automounts. (e.g. sudo umount /dev/sdc1 if this is your USB flashdrive partition.)
Run testdisk in a terminal and select a log file for documenting changes (if required.. not really necessary here.).
Choose your USB device and select "Proceed"
Select the hard disk type: "Intel" should be selected for our purposes here (conventional MBR/BIOS). Don't select "EFI GPT" for (U)EFI or GPT systems.
Select "Analyse" and "Quick Search". If you see any drive geometry warnings.. abort the process and reformat the flashdrive.
Your flashdrive partition should be detected. Now use the left & right cursor keys to change the partition type from (P FAT32 LBA) to (* FAT32 LBA)
Press Enter and then cursor right to "Write" and press enter.
Now press 'y' to confirm the write. This will now (re)write the MBR. Press enter for "OK". Cursor down to "Quit" and then cursor right to another "Quit".
Finally remove and then reinsert the flashdrive.

3.) (As Root) Create a directory on the flashdrive and install grub2:
Mount the filesystem located on the USB drive:
Code:
        # mount /dev/sdXY /mnt
'X' is your drive designation and 'Y' is the partition number (It will be '1' here.)
Create the directory /boot:
Code:
        # mkdir /mnt/boot
Install GRUB on the USB drive:
Code:
        # grub-install --target=i386-pc --recheck --boot-directory=/mnt/boot /dev/sdX
NOTE: If you don't wish to use "grub-install" then it's fine to manually copy the grub files from your target OS (See the directory tree below.).

4.) Copy your kernel and initrd from your target OS to a temp. directory on your main machine.
Create a grub.cfg (using any text editor) in this temp. directory.
This file should contain something like this:
Code:
      menuentry 'Flashdrive boot' {

	  insmod part_msdos
	  insmod ext2
          linux /boot/vmlinuz-4.15.0-54-generic root=UUID=1a4c87b5-bee6-48f4-90cb-5424a7759daa ro quiet $vt_handoff
	  initrd /boot/initrd.img-4.15.0-54-generic
    }
NOTES:
The UUID here must be that of your target system partition filesystem.
The use of the Grub module "ext2" supports ext2, ext3 & ext4 filesystems. I'm assuming that your target OS is on an ext4 partition.
The full filenames of the kernel (vmlinuz*) and initrd (initrd*) must be accurate. Ensure that these names match those in your temp. directory.

5.) Finally, copy your grub.cfg, kernel & initrd from your temp. directory to your boot flashdrive. The directory structure should be as follows:
Code:
./
└── boot
    ├── grub
    │   ├── fonts
    │   │   └── unicode.pf2
    │   ├── grub.cfg
    │   ├── grubenv
    │   └── i386-pc
    │       ├── acpi.mod
    │       ├── adler32.mod
    │       ├── affs.mod
    │     ........   
    │     ........{ listing truncated here }
    │       ├── uk.mo
    │       ├── vi.mo
    │       ├── zh_CN.mo
    │       └── zh_TW.mo
    │    
    ├── initrd.img-4.15.0-54-generic
    └── vmlinuz-4.15.0-54-generic
(The kernel & initrd file names are examples here.)
You may find a couple of extra directories here.. as created by your local version of "grub-install". Just ignore these.

Don't forget to unmount your flashdrive:
Code:
    umount /mnt
You are now ready to test your boot flashdrive with your target OS flashdrive.

Any problems or clarifications required.. just ask here.

Bodge99

Last edited by bodge99; 06-23-2020 at 03:02 PM. Reason: Missed a bit.. umount /mnt
 
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Old 06-23-2020, 07:48 AM   #73
frozengsa
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wow, thank you!
your instructions are even more clear and friendly than the ones i usually see at stackoverflow and such.
I did it all the same day you posted, but before giving feedback I wanted to test to see how it would behave after a few reboots, changing the usb port of the drive, apt install something that would change initrd or the kernel, etc. And it totally worked!
From now on, everytime I apt upgrade something and notice initramfs-tools changing the initrd for whatever reason, I'll copy the new version to the boot drive.

Thank you again!
 
Old 06-23-2020, 10:00 AM   #74
bodge99
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Hi,

I'm glad to be of service.. ;>)

As you've realised, you need to keep the kernel & initrd versions the same. i.e. the target OS versions must be the same as the boot flashdrive ones.

I tend to keep the same filenames as you can then easily identify exactly what the versions are on your flashdrive. It is possible to rename the boot flashdrive kernel and initrd to "something shorter".. It's the file **contents** that are important. If I do this sort of thing then I tend to forget exactly what I've done after a week or so.. Therefore I find it easier overall to just keep identical filenames.

The advantage of using UUIDs within the grub.cfg is so Grub can find the required partition precisely. Be aware that if you reformat your target OS flashdrive, the UUID will change. "blkid" is your friend here...

I'll post the legacy/UEFI and UEFI/GPT versions here when I've got a little time..


Bodge99

Last edited by bodge99; 06-23-2020 at 03:23 PM.
 
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Old 07-01-2020, 02:46 PM   #75
tofino_surfer
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Quote:
1.) Format boot flashdrive as Fat32 legacy (MBR). This is the default with most flashdrive tools.1.)
It is required that the flashdrive is formatted fat32 in legacy mode (with a traditional MBR).
None of this is required. A modern USB flash drive is a block device similar to an SSD or HDD. It can be easily formatted with fdisk or GParted just as with a regular SSD or HDD. There is no need to use any "flashdrive tools".

There is also no need to use FAT32 as ext234 support is built into the default grub core.img second stage. The only reason to use FAT is if you are installing grub to a partition /dev/sdXY as opposed to the whole drive with /dev/sdX. When installing grub to the drive the core.img second stage goes into the MBR gap between the MBR and the first partition. This is usually at least 31K but can be made as large as possible.

Quote:
Most tools will, by default, produce a legacy fat32 formatted drive but may not have the capability to write a Master Boot Record to a USB flashdrive.

2.) There are a few tools which will handle this task. It's even possible to use "dd" to copy an existing MBR to a file and then write the contents of this file to the flashdrive. Be aware that it's quite easy to make mistakes and cause further problems using "dd" (aka "data destroyer") if you are not careful. Been there.. Done that!!
This is a nonexistent problem. If you simply use fdisk or (G)parted to format the drive in legacy mode it will of course create a MBR. You then create at least one partition and format it with ext4. You can specify the starting sector of the first partition to make the "MBR gap" as large as you like.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php...nstalling_GRUB
 
  


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