Hey Guys,

I have decided to venture into the world of linux, and am wanting to build a flexible server that will last me years. The computer I've picked out appears to be flexible enough hardware wise to fit my needs, but the operating systems it supports (or says it does) is only redhat enterprise and windows server 2003.

Does this mean I can't run windows, or any other version of linux on my motherboard? I am wanting a motherboard that is flexible operating system wise as well.
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Also, while I was here, I was wondering if you could check out the system I have picked out, and give any suggestions or warnings on certain pieces of hardward and compatability when using linux.

Motherboard:
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Processor (x2):
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Harddrive (x3 or x4):
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Ram (x2):
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Cd Drive:
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Case:
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PSU:
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Basically I am new to linux, but have built pcs before. I want a server that cun run multiple virtual servers using VMware, and the quad core is extremely cheap so I thought I would do it.

I don't want to have to pay 350 dollers for redhat enterprise, right now I am learning and want the most flexible machine as possible, so I have room to change the hardware out, as well as the operating system.

Thanks for your help

Unfortunately I cannot post the urls to the components and resources I was using, so this post is pretty much worthless. I have this post saved in an email WITH the urls, so if anyone wants to take a look at it I can email it to you... Man this stinks. Any help would be appreciated though and thanks.

If RH Enterprise is said to run on it, most modern distributions of Linux should run. Most manufacturers are just too lazy to mark the OS-parts well. Most USB mass storage sticks, even today, only seem to work under Windows (and some under new Macs!) if you believe the package; the truth is, they work virtually everywhere if the OS is older than Win98. The same goes to computers: the manufacturers are not 100% sure so they don't say anything they don't know. If somebody has tried RHEL and it worked, they say it, but nothing more. And if you are unsure (you should be, if it's a server), burn a Live-CD Linux of your choice and try out -- if it runs, you're fine to install that one (non-live-cd version).

A Live-CD is also a good tool to find out if the hardware works or not. Try to work with the hardware, and if it works with the live-cd you can go on.

You can't post URLs since that was your first post. After some more posts (not many) you will be able to post URLs too, the reason why that's prohibited on the first post is because that hopefully prevents some misuse..

Hardware support is dependant on the kernel, not the distribution. So, if the kernel supports the hardware, then any distro will support it. The main issues (if any) will be with the motherboard since Linux has been ported to most processors, and the ram/hard drives/cd-rom etc are pretty much no-brainers (if the controller is supported (SCSI/SATA/etc), then the devices are supported).

Check out the "HCL" link at the top of the LinuxQuestions page to see if your hw is listed. Also have a look at:

http://www.linux-drivers.org/
http://www.linux.org/hardware/

You might also want to read the Linux Hardware Compatibility HOWTO.

I took a look at the hardware section before posting, but didn't draw many conclusions.

The mobo is an intel motherboard, dual socket 771 for dual dual core xeons. So my processors are:
Intel Xeon 5030 Dempsey 2.67GHz 2 x 2MB L2 Cache Socket 771

My mobo is:
Intel S5000VSASATA Dual Socket 771 Intel 5000V SSI EEB 3.6 (Extended ATX) Server Motherboard

I asked intel and they gave me a link that gave the operating systems that would work:
support.intel.com/support/motherboards/server/s5000vsa/compat.htm
I can't really try out other operating systems because I am debating what to buy, so I don't physically own this system yet. So does this look like a lazy manufacture, or am I going to be stuck with one version of linux, and is it possible to install Windows XP on it?

If you have a dual socket 771 mobo that you would recommend that you know is very flexible, that would be great. Otherwise I may as well stick with this one.

Why I ask about the hardware is because I read that sata harddrives arent a good choice for linux, but am not sure for this configuration. I am getting 3 or 4 sata drives:
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

I am also curious about the ram, it is: 240-Pin DDR2 FB-DIMM (11), why is that so expensive? It's 200 dollers per gig, which is expensive compared to regular computer memory. Is this high performance memory, and do I need more since I am going quad core?

Thanks for your responses!

So does windows xp run on most server mobos? Or is that a lost cause?

Also, looking at:support.intel.com/support/motherboards/server/s5000vsa/compat.htm

Does that look like a lazy manufacture, or will redhat be my only choice?

Also, do I need a video card? Will I be sad with onboard video, or would that be sufficient?

If it's intel then there's a good chance it will work. Manufacturers and vendors won't declare that open-source works in fear of litigation, since open-source has no legally binding change management strategies. Red Hat went to a great deal of trouble to get their Enterprise linux approved by vendors (including the likes of Oracle and IBM).

SATA is slower than SCSI, and they aren't as reliable. However RAID stands for Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks - so if you just need GBs and not speed then SATA should be OK so long as you have that redundancy (> RAID 0). Having said that, I haven't been successful at getting RAID to work on my particular SATA controller, although I can access the disks as individual units.

Good luck. At the end of the day if you want to save $$$ then you need to take risks, no matter what your venture.

I have one of those. The drives aren't the problem, of course, it's the controller that determines compatibility and how well (or if) RAID will work. I haven't gotten around to using RAID yet myself, but from what I've read, it is indeed a bit hit and miss at the moment, depending on the controller used.

Onboard video will be fine unless you want to play 3D games, which, since this is a server, you won't, presumably.

Thanks, that made the other post I read a bit more clear about the sata drives. I will be buying this server tomorrow night but have one other question.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816152019

3.5" Bays 4 x Hot-swap SATA HDD bays What the heck is that? Does that mean its holds 4 harddrives in the front? And will these work with the SATA drives I have already selected.

Also: Memory Type Supported DDRII 533/667
The memory is not the expensive server memory? 240-Pin DDR2 FB-DIMM is super expensive, so if I don't use that that will save a ton of money.

Thank you guys for your help.

Yes, you can actually pop the HDD's in and out of that machine without powering it down. I don't know your expertise level, so please don't be offended by my explanation: The benefit of hot-swapping hard drives in a server is the ability to replace one if it fails without powering the server down and leaving people/workstations/web sites/etc in the cold while you get it replaced. This only works if you have a RAID 1 setup, of course.

I don't know of a single hardware RAID controller that the 2.6 kernel supports. A few were supported by 2.4, but not very well and were thus dropped. Software RAID is much more reliable and very easy to set up with Parted (either in the CLI or GUI flavor). Just steer clear of QTParted if you can (IMHO, anyway).

You seem to be a little too leery in the way of OS's. If Windows Server 2000/2003 is supported, then there's a better than 99% chance that you will have no troubles at all with XP. As Soggy said above, linux support is dependant on the kernel, not the distro. If RHEL works, then just about ANY distro will work. Would you care to guess how many distros I tried before I fell back on my old fav' (Suse) for my server? They all worked fine. I just like Suse's hardware detection and kindergarten-ish interface (so sue me if I like little GUI's to hold my hand all the way!).

Setting up a software RAID during setup is easier than a snap of the fingers with Suse, BTW. My Mythbox has two IDE disks on the mobo's (non-RAID) IDE controller in a RAID 0 configuration for the database and runs amazingly well. One is the PS and the other is the SS; the two work together as /dev/md0, with another IDE drive for the OS on PM and a DVD on SM. Easy!

This is also just an opinion, but save your money on the RAM!

Viel gluck!

J

I looked all through Tyan's site and it looks like it uses the expensive ram too, about 200 a gig.

I understand operating systems kind of, and hardware kind of, but i grew up on a mac and there wasn't much configurability. I am just now getting into the stuff and not wanting to blow 2000, don't have that much money to just throw away. I have access to vmware technology for virtualization, and intelligent people, but a lot of them are not good on hardware so it's my job to get the system running.

So with the raid stuff mentioned, if I don't do a raid can I hot swap? If I just have 4 drives in there running, can I swap one out? Can I even use it without a raid? And what is a raid 1 setup, and is it possible with SATA? I asked about raid's with SATA above and it doesn't appear to be possible?

Does Suse cost money, and is it a program? I thought raids were hardware based, not something you could install with a program or system. And looking at some sites on Suse it appears the raid makes the disks act as individual disks, so how is this different then just putting 4 harddrives in and letting them run?

Thank you guys for your help and patience.

Hardware RAID is where a chip made by a company like Promise or Highpoint takes the disks, assembles them into an array, cuts in line as the machine POSTs, and presents the array to the BIOS/OS as one disk. Linux doesn't like these, and neither do I. Software RAID is where the disks are presented to the OS exactly as they are, and the OS combines them together into the array. Simple as that. You aren't relying on someone's chip to do work that the OS has to come behind and sort out. Instead the OS is doing it itself. Software raid can be configured with any type of disks. If you are feeling silly, you could probably make a RAID array out of 2 or more floppy drives by creating dynamic links to the devices and assigning them to the array (just a theory and probably not one worth trying to test out!). Of course you can use the rig without going RAID. I have a Promise RAID card that has 4 single device IDE controllers on it. I can use Promise's stupid tool and create any kind of hardware RAID I want out of whatever disks I plug into it and Windows will see them just fine once it has been hand-fed a Promise driver. The arrays aren't visible to the kernel, though. Like I said, hardware RAID support does not exist in Linux. BUT I can install disks on the card and Linux CAN see the individual disks, which I can then use in a software RAID any kind of way I like or just use them as individual disks without making them part of any RAID array.

AFAIK hot swapping a disk that isn't in a RAID array is the same as plugging/unplugging a flash drive or an external drive or even taking a floppy disk out. Just be sure that the volume(s) on it is(are) umounted and that the disk has received a power-down/spin-down signal to ensure that cached data has been written to the disk and won't be lost when you unplug it.

Suse is a Linux distro, just like RHEL. They have an enterprise flavor that costs for the license and comes with support, but I use OpenSUSE, the open source and totally free version of the very same OS. It just doesn't come with installation support from Novell. You can always fall back on the community for that, just like you are doing now. Suse is so easy to install and configure though, that I doubt you will even need help. They really do make it easy. If you are new to Linux it is the distro that I would hand you because it is aimed at newbies but still gives them good flexibility as they become power users. If you are at all familiar with the Windows Control Panel, you will love YAST. This is obviously a very hotly debated topic, but Suse is my choice for a learner's distro. Cruise over to http://www.opensuse.org to learn about it and download a live-dvd iso to boot up and give it a try. If you have respectable bandwidth, email me and I might have something that interests you that I can email back.

J

Thanks a bunch, that makes sense. I may do a suse configuration, depends on how much data I look to store.

I have 768kb (96 killabytes) up right now, may move to colocation in the future if necessary. I would email you but your account doesn't allow it, but I don't think my current up is that respectable.

The fact that any version of linux will probably work makes me feel a bit more comfortable buying a server, I'm just a little nervous stepping into this new world of linux.

Thank you guys so much for your help and expertise. I really appreciate it. Hope you all have a great weekend!

Good luck with your system. You've gotten lots of good info so far. The only thing I would take exception with is software raid vs hardware raid. I've used hardware raid exclusivly and had good results. I use RAID 1 for the OS (one to one mirroring) and RAID 5 for the remaining 4 disks. Works like a charm.
Hot swappable really does you no good if you are not using some type of RAID (RAID 1 or above ... RAID 0 = no RAID).

Do you RAID with SATA drives? I think that is an SATA limitation.. if you are using SATA drives, then I am confused.

Thanks!

Humph. I didn't know I had my email blocked. It is unblocked now, so you can get me. I tried to email you myself but you have it blocked like I did. You won't need much bandwidth. I just have a couple of pretty big document files that will help you along the learning path that will be hard to get to you if you are on some dialup in the boondocks. I have found that sometimes really simple stuff isn't always so simple to dig up on the web (even on LQ!) and having a paper reference to hold your hand thru the basics can help.

Email me if you want them. They are pretty handy and I have them for several distros, including a couple about Suse.