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Old 10-06-2022, 10:51 AM   #16
mrmazda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
If you use Debian and CentOS, then you have Gnome
You know this how? I have more than 50 Debian installations. None have Gnome.
 
Old 10-09-2022, 04:47 AM   #17
slackguy2
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Xerox Parc Palo Alto California - miliatary industrial research center

Open Desktop was the first "Windows" in wide release and documentation of it, though Xerox tried to sell their machines earlier (few had the money - kinda like me and those new Apple Servers build in USA i wish i could afford)

THE UNITED STATES AIRFORCE invented the "Start Bar" which microsoft claims they invented, it was in the first release of SCO for i386 X windows as a contribution.
 
Old 10-09-2022, 10:50 AM   #18
DavidMcCann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
You know this how? I have more than 50 Debian installations. None have Gnome.
CentOS comes with Gnome as the default and running anything else can really upset it. I assumed that the poster would want the same GUI on both distros. Sorry if this is more than you can cope with.

PS As you see, I have a Debian installation — Xfce, and it took a lot of work to make it usable. And in case you're going to have hissy fit about that claim, I might add that I needed to install from a live disk — probably the plain installer might have been better.
 
Old 10-09-2022, 11:14 AM   #19
BenCollver
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According to a Reddit post:

The famous Alt+F4 sequence comes from the 1987 standard IBM Common User Access, which influenced most keyboard shortcuts which last till today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access
 
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Old 10-09-2022, 12:17 PM   #20
mrmazda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
CentOS comes with Gnome as the default and running anything else can really upset it. I assumed that the poster would want the same GUI on both distros. Sorry if this is more than you can cope with.
OP didn't explicitly state applicable OS, but his details say Gentoo, not what I'd call a distro for users accepting of defaults, and particularly not the inflexible Gnome as an affirmative choice. He also says no systemd, which also suggests against Gnome.

Quote:
PS As you see, I have a Debian installation — Xfce, and it took a lot of work to make it usable. And in case you're going to have hissy fit about that claim, I might add that I needed to install from a live disk — probably the plain installer might have been better.
My installationS use the NET version of whatever the default Debian installer is at installation time, and include on the command line tasks=standard base-installer/install-recommends=false to avoid the cruft of defaults interfering with usability. I add what I need after the svelte initial installation is complete, which I don't consider to be "a lot of work".
 
Old 10-09-2022, 07:59 PM   #21
evo2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
PS As you see, I have a Debian installation — Xfce, and it took a lot of work to make it usable.
Care to elaborate? All my Debian systems without gnome are very usable without having to do "a lot of work".

Evo2.
 
Old 10-10-2022, 11:37 AM   #22
DavidMcCann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evo2 View Post
Care to elaborate? All my Debian systems without gnome are very usable without having to do "a lot of work".
This was not for my nice new desktop, but for my IBM laptop that will be celebrating its 20th birthday next year. I needed a proper GUI (window managers are not suitable if you have a system that will need several keyboard drivers) and on such an old computer, that meant Xfce. To make sure that it would indeed work, I needed a live disk. It was a slow install and then, to quote my review at Distrowatch
Quote:
I found I was missing a firewall, a file searcher, an email client, a calculator, a character map, and a menu editor. On the other hand, I had complete support for Thai! The graphical package manager failed to find some things I needed and panicked when asked to remove the Thai packages, so I had to use the command line. Eventually I got there and I have a functioning computer again.
I assumed that this was an iso put together by one developer in Thailand. I am grateful, but I did rather resent spending a whole afternoon on an installation. But then there's the right way, the wrong way, and the Debian way.
 
Old 10-10-2022, 07:18 PM   #23
evo2
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What does the following mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidMcCann View Post
system that will need several keyboard drivers
The things that were "missing" surely could be installed with a single command like:
Code:
apt install ufw catfish mutt apcalc menulibre
Doesn't seem like "a lot of work" to me.

Evo2.
 
Old 10-10-2022, 09:03 PM   #24
InNomineLibertas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post
"Initial" meaning what? IBM's first PC had 10 function keys, Ctrl, Alt, but not a NUM pad in addition to the NAV pad, which had to be added for spreadsheets, accountants and bookkeepers with the second iteration of the PC AT keyboard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_keyboard
Well, before personal computers (of which IBM's was NOT the first one, though the first one so named), we had things known as terminals. (No, I did not use them, but I have heard feeble old men mentioning such things.. ;-)

Do remember that Linux is a Unix, and that this has been multi-user practically since the first port...
 
Old 10-11-2022, 11:12 AM   #25
BenCollver
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The VIC-20 had function keys labeled F1-F8 a year before the IBM PC was sold.
 
Old 10-11-2022, 03:45 PM   #26
jefro
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The old IBM keyboard used PF keys.
 
Old 10-11-2022, 04:05 PM   #27
BenCollver
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Nice, IBM had PF keys in 1972.

"IBM use of function keys dates to the IBM 3270 line of terminals, specifically the IBM 3277 (1972) with 78-key typewriter keyboard or operator console keyboard version, which both featured 12 programmed function (PF) keys in a 3×4 matrix at the right of the keyboard. Later models replaced this with a numeric keypad, and moved the function keys to 24 keys at the top of the keyboard."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_key
 
Old 10-11-2022, 05:53 PM   #28
astrogeek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenCollver View Post
Nice, IBM had PF keys in 1972.
50 years ago, and I remember it... am I really this old?
 
  


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