I've stumbled yesterday on a Haker News headline about the prospects of mainstream Linux adoption:
http://www.compuforums.org/nix/6731-...-adoption.html
It was mainly a critique directed upon the Linux's nature that were seen as impediments. First I said to myself that this was another idiotic post attacking Linux, but yet I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't something to be considered about it. I'm interested in opinions, so please let me know.
...I posted this on several places, so don't behead me for that ...just post me at any of them.

It all depends on what you mean by mainstream. On servers, super-computers, smart phones, and embedded systems, Linux is already the leader. So presumably you mean desktop / laptop PCs. With large companies like Google, not to mention an increasing number of governments, removing Windows, one can envisage Linux becoming the norm in the enterprise, for PCs as well as servers.

What I suspect people mean then they talk about the "mainstream" is the average home user, using their PC for email, social networking, and the internet. Will they switch to Linux. Probably not. Does it matter? No. Would it be a good idea if they did? No, because if something has to be suited to the abilities of the masses, it becomes inferior; think of the popular press and TV. Let them have Windows, soap operas, and fast food; let them be happy, and keep out of my way.

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This is the best answer that I've got til now. I knew somehow that it would worth asking.
Thank you!

Linux Servers are run by experts so they dominate the so called market. PCs in general are used by everyone and Linux usage is paralleled to its documentation and it's experts solutions to this dilemma. A lot of basic problems encountered with using Linux has a multiple of Documents that are mostly based off the same document and says next to nothing. The approach the authors take is nothing like how a user would approach it. Here are some examples.

1- Multi-session CD/DVD burning.

2-What to do when Grub Dumps one of your O.S for no reason after working fine for a week.

3- Autotools including make.

4- Some servers won't work with Linux JavaScript.

5- Linux distros not having native dial-up support.Ubuntu and Mandriva has it ,Fedora and CentOS does not. If you not lucky and can't find the info on a forum you have to 86 the distro. Why would a vendor give you this choice? They don't want dial up users?

6- Linux not installing correctly the first time. Multiple tries needed for all functionality. I have done this over and over on two different desktops with a multiple of Linux distros but you will find not info on this other than this post. It seems that when you use the installation disk to add a package set like for a desktop or a server by individual choices some of the applications will not install correctly. This problem should not exist or there should be comprehensive documentation to correct it.You can't reinstall the application to solve it. The Distro has to be reinstalled.


I'm not trying to flame or have any of these issues ironed out but it is much to difficult to get solutions to everyday computer activities for Linux. (Edit: I could not find info on how to get a sony MP3 player to work. I had to fool with it until I guessed how it worked.) Most of the issues I have with Linux I have to "investigate" and try to figure out a mystery by trying to guess what the author is implying. Why are they implying when they could be explaining? Association is for a psychiatrist patient relationship, not technical guides. People want to know what ='s what.

I recently installed CentOS and it does not come with a Printer Cashe Manager so you can't cancel a job,Why? So I can go back to Mandriva?

It's because of the Documentation not the System. Linux is better than a proprietary system easily. Ubuntu takes the kernel and adds so much GUI that you get lost in it but it is the most popular because people only have so much time and a lot of the documentation makes solving an everyday tasks impossible in their lifetime.

The Windows symbol can be seen to the left today because I have to be a Grub expert to get an Installation of Fedora Back.


These reasons are just an opinion and this is the only post I will make in this thread.

Serendipity to all!

on home systems ??
when pigs fly

Because do you RELAY expect the average "air-head" to actually LEARN something new and different , that the DO NOT EVEN THINK (click "yes" to everything) MS Windows way

@theKbStockpiler: thank you for your thoughts. Although a lot of your exposed issues are known, it's good to have them acknowledged again.

@John VV, I couldn't have guessed such a pessimism. Maybe that's why I was hit so hard when I read for the first time userulluipeste's article. When there is so much effort in bringing Linux to the average users, how can it be a lost cause?

The article is not interesting at all. I don't understand what it is aimed at. Some kind complains. But about what?

I am sure other programs can do this, but if you want something intuitive and easier to work with than even nero, pick k3b, it can do that and anything else related to burning optical media. It's true that the gnome equivalents could be more powerful, but that's a gnome problem not a linux problem.

The same than you do when the windows bootloader breaks: boot a livecd and fix it (or reinstall, which seems to be more trendy in the win-realm). The prodecure is similar for other OSes, not really a linux specific thing.

Wasn't this about the average Joe? I think anyone needing the gnu toolchain can deal with installing autotools and anything else s/he needs.

There's no such thing as "one javascript to rule them all" in linux. There are many javascript implementations and each browser has its own. The only thing a server knows about a client is whatever the client wants to tell. In the browsers speech, that's called "user agent", and is configurable.

Fair enough. I understand that's a problem for a newcomer (it was for me back in mid nineties as well. Most of the problem, however, is getting winmodems to work. ppp shouldn't be too difficult to install and setup after that. In windows you also have to configure that, unless your provider gives you some kind of pre-configured dialer in a disk. Even in windows, I often didn't use that. I configured it myself with the system dialer because I didn't like installing the silly spammy crap that they used to give me.

I agree that installers should receive some more love. And I will also grant you the fact that it's an important thing for a newcomer. In windows you only click next, you don't have to know a thing about your hardware to get a working environment (most times, anyway).

I however can't agree that you need to reinstall a distro to fix anything or that the documentation is not comprehensive enough. Any linux user knows that's not true. The issues, usually, are that 99.9% of the users won't ever read the manual before installing (an OS or a fridge, it really doesn't matter, we just expect it to work with zero setup). We haven't done it since msdos times, ever. I understand it's the trend that comes with the times, but no one can really complain if things do not work the first time when we don't even take the time to research. We should instead feel grateful that kittens do not die and computers do not explode because of our incompetence.

It's true that linux, still, ask from the user some technical background. That has improved a lot in the last decade but obviously there's still a lot of work to do. No doubt. The collateral problem however is that, at least from my perception: the easier a distro is to use, the lower the quality of the documentation and the user skills.

So, In Gentoo, we have no installer and only a very basic system (with a compiler, a basic init system, some tools... you even have to add the kernel yourself because the stage files do not have one by default). But on the contrary we have a very extensive documentation system and a really worth mailing list system and forum that guarantee that if you have a problem you will get help and tools to fix it.

On the other side, Ubuntu has a "click next" philosophy, very similar to this of windows. But if you have a nasty problem and need help, all you'll get in their forum will be "reinstall to fix" standard answer. This is a problem for everyone (not just Ubuntu users) because ubuntu is that popular that it's always in the top of the Google results, so when searching I always have to add "-ubuntu" in the google search box if I want to get some useful results and remove most of the useless ones.

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Correct. I would dare to say that we are seeing this happen already. Many known distributions and projects are taking estrange decisions and choices in order to be "more appealing" to new users.

Think about Debian: one of the most reliable and respected distributions out there.

Spanish Debian forums where great until Debian became easy to install with Lenny. Then, the forums, wikis and docs degradated because a new generation of not-so-skilled users was taking over the place.

Think about Debian CUT. The traditional goal of Debian has always been to put a reliable, free (as in speech) and stable system on the table. By including a rolling branch, they are showing that that goal could not be the main goal anymore. They would be targeting another kind of user. There has been much talking about how much a rolling branch could help the Stable branch, but when you have been using Debian for a while and know how the development and bug fixing process work, you know this is marketing stupidity. Rolling defenders claim that bugs will be spoted and corrected earlier, but the fact is that many Debian bugs are spoted very early and not corrected because there is nobody to fix them (or the maintainer does not want to do so). And I doubt that there would be that claimed better bug detection anyway.

Let me say it again. Debian developers, in fact, are taking this important decision not for technical reasons. It is only for marketing. Rolling distributions are getting lots of users lately, so they are going to try to become one, plain and simple.

There is no manpower enough to properly maintain every package in Debian Stable now, so if they start taking out their resources from Debian Stable and putting them on Rolling, Stable will eventually loose its point. The Stable release manager has already complained of the developers not being as interested in the stable branch as they should be to keep it working 100% perfect. Some guys out there have said that the X server system should be dropped in Stable (because Stable is for serves, blah, blah), so more resources could be directed to Rolling. Absurd! The Debian Rolling thing is, for me, a clear sign of the developers targeting a new kind of user while abandoning (slowly and silently) the user base they had in Stable. If you like Rolling releases, it might be great, but old-style users are going to be pissed-off and badly neglected.

It is as if Arch neglected its actual userbase by establishing an Stable branch.

This is an example of Distribution Degradation Because of Massive Arrival of Distro Hoppers and Market Share Interests.

I strongly feel that the better way to stay away from DDBMADHMSI is to stay with a Hard Core distribution, where there is little danger. I guess nor Gentoo, nor Slackware, have problems to attend stupid petitions from low skilled users, nor they are going to target the newbie user in the near future or adopt weird developing models just because distro hoppers think that's cool.

So yes, I agree that massive arrival of users from other operating systems would be deadly for GNU/Linux's quality.

This.


I already get queasy each time a new Fedora comes out. It's becoming more and more "user friendly". Granted newer versions have better hardware recognition but the administration is getting "easier". I started using Linux about 13 years ago because I like lifting the hood and tinkering with the OS. If I wanted to turn on a computer and just use it I would go back to windows.


Keep my home Linux hard and frustrating to use! ha


It's painful enough to troubleshoot my PC illiterate friends/families windows computers. No way in hell I want to troubleshoot their ubuntu issues over the phone. ha

I think this kind of attitude is part of what makes GNU/Linux systems great. Although it's true that a number of new users have entered the Linux world, and are looking for "easy to use" systems, many developers and long term users are still out there with the "wires and pliers" philosophy on things. The beauty of using systems based on open-source software is that different distros can be built for different needs.

While some distros may take the route of pleasing the new user, for whatever reasons, there are still just as many die-hard fans and tinkerers who will keep things alive. I will admit that I've seen hardware support for various devices increase rapidly over the past few years, and that's a good thing, but I think it would have happened anyway, regardless of how many new users are migrating over from Windows. There are just too many of us out there who want to know how it works and will stop at nothing to get things up and running.

We have the option of assembling our OS'es piece by piece - which other mainstream OS can claim to have that ability? Whether or not Linux ever reaches true mainstream adoption doesn't matter to me - I feel that there are enough of us tinkerers out there to keep the dream alive.

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That article was pretty much like a wake-up call to me, a cold shower if you like. As you see, I have to use Windows when I write this because of the Linux drivers thing. This is what suggested the guy that set up Ubuntu for me. And that it shall be fixed in the near future. That is just a mater of time. "Just wait a little bit. The adoption is growing." This is what I was told. That article is telling that waiting is for nothing. That Linux is not right for people like me and the scary part is that other people here on a Linux forum are telling the same. It was not a complaint.

@restalis
You cannot blame Linux for Ubuntu. Ubuntu is exactly made by Windowze educated designers. An idea Ubuntu is based on is: "Ubuntu is as good as Windows and better". Linux is not Unix and Linux is not Ubuntu.

It is nice feature of Linux: Ubuntu doesn't work you have a choice. In W$: W$ doesn't work, you have no choice.

I think it's possible. make trouble shooting and repair the easiest of all oses. common apps are already here. point and shoot everything.
I'm going to report you to mark zuckerberg 8-P