Dunno anymore how it is configured (make.conf and the likes) but if you go and just emerge with the default configs you might be in for more trouble (although I never had much of that) than with the regular install.
If you don't go thru all portage related configs it will probably pull all languages and drivers with an update and then you'll be really be compiling forever stuff like xorg and kde.
Plus everybody who runs a gentoo based system and doesn't go thru the doc's is asking for trouble - heck I've been installing gentoo since 2002 and get baffled sometimes e.g.the handbook tells you to install dhcpcd but not to add it to the default runlevel.

Entirely agreed crashmeister. The Sabayon variant of a Gentoo install disc is interesting, and fun compared to the real terse Gentoo install disc, but let that fool nobody!

If one has really decided to have the advantages of a source-based distro, with the (very nice!) power of a portage command, it comes with the responsibility of getting it right, and using it well. However nice is this competently built Gentoo taster, with its media-based temptations, I suspect those who only want to play will find the bones and horns soon enough. I just could not help being impressed with it, even though it was an inherent part of one of my more spectacular computer prangs.

I also cannot quite abandon the real Gentoo, possibly because the forced involvement in building what I got, also means I have only myself to blame if it has an annoyance. The same involvement provides also quite a lot of learned ways to fix it.

As a relative newbie I've watched the ratings on distrowatch.com and came upon Sabayon. I did an install from a magazine DVD I had and at the same time started surfing with my other machine. I got the *.iso for the 64 bit install and it is now installed as the install notes for Sabayon suggest if your machine is a 64 bit then you should install the 64 bit version. Sabayon is the 8th current distro on my machine.
First impressions: super! Robbing from the rich I would say. anaconda installer, gentoo base. The standard set of applications is great. Covers all my normal applications except for "gftp" and there is probably another good ftp application there somewhere. Google earth is installed and the first time I used it I could almost see our cottage in Canada, Wow.

Problems:

1.Since grub often gets its install wrong on a bios where you can change the boot order I install my distros mainly from the grub shell. Without installing grub you do not see the unusual entries needed to boot Sabayon. Alas, install grub from anaconda. When you spend a little time with anaconda you will see it can handle drive ordering well.
2.Sabayon Forum - where is it?? Ya, http://www.sabayonlinux.org/forum/
Where is it? Some webdesigners love this black layout. I can't log in or do a search as I can't see where my cursor is!! This is not a pleasing site at all and there is not a separate site yet on Linuxquestions so a person is left hanging.
3.Package Manager - this is anything but self explanatory. Compare it to Fedora that a child could understand (if only they could fix their Repo problems).

Overall Sabayon will stay on my machine for some time till I can make a proper evaluation. I wanted to try Gentoo and for now Sabayon is what I have time for.
Hats off Fedora, you're still my number one but the wolves are closing.

Namaste,
Kevin Tough

Hi Kevin

Allow me to ramble a little.
I too keep the Sabayon / and an associated /home on a couple of logical-type partitions. When it came to scripts that will end up wielding grub install, I declined. Things would get messy very quickly if I let every latest curiosity install a new grub, and hope it finds the right kernels (even among some temporarily abandoned variants) lurking in quite a few /boot places. I settle for just adding distro kernel paths to one menu.lst that just gets fatter as I try out distros.

Quite aside from the asthetics of the Sabayon forum and web page, I think there is something a little dark about the Sabayon creators and their distro. If I have not paid enough attention, or looked in enough places, then I will freely retract, but my impression is that the exact ways in which Sabayon functions is not transparent enough. Their apologists get very feisty very quickly if anyone questions their ethos. Yet their published aims are fair, and the community seem to be a friendly lot, so I do wish them well. Also, I do like what my two Sabayon partitions have. Its fun to use them for inducing surprise (and maybe envy) among frustrated Windows users.

It may be "the favorite Gentoo setup of one individual that was so admired by his friends that it became popular, and ended up as Sabayon" .. at least, that is a line I have seen expounded. Reading the forums, it is clear that the Sabayon creators are striving to make a Gentoo fork that has an identity of its own, "based on Gentoo" - but very definitly trying to put distance from Gentoo. They want Sabayon to be in the league of Ubuntu, Suse, etc. How much of this is real innovation, and how much is a skilled presentation of cherry-picking the compiled works of of Gentoo contributors only time can tell. If the Debian distro gurus had used the Anaconda installer from Fedora/RedHat in the same way Sabayon has, we would be cheering them to the rafters!

The essential difference is that it uses a set of scripts to deliver a pre-compiled set of Linux binaries that you would have got if you had settled for some default choices without figuring out absolutely all the bleeding edge optimisation for your hardware. I think there may be some kernel selection based on hardware detection, but I do know using genkernel is not like rolling your own. It also comes bundled with the popular applications like Google Earth, all set to go. Games media players, and Beryl eye candy. You get the whole lot as a package... at least, I did not notice any software selection options. This is for folk who like all the choice, and don't really care to get selective.

I can directly compare it to a working Gentoo on the nearby partitions, and I find it riddled with symlinks and scripts that might even intercept and modify the regular portage commands. There are extra directory structures that might have a purpose beyond just trying to make it different, but I did not understand them. "emerge <a program>" does not always seem to do what an identical command does from the genuine Gentoo. For home desktop computing fun, and being on the net, its great. For keeping control of an industrial process, or processing satellite telemetry, the needs are different. Stripped down ultra stable industrial strength fully supported distros use the phrase "bleeding edge technologies" in a different context. In many ways, that is the feature of Linux variants that I find valuable. You can find them optimised for for almost any need.

Thanks for the history on Sabayon. I have already found the distro a little buggy. Nothing serious but enough to question how well put together it is. I mean Linux is susposed to be one of the most stable OSs.
No OS can make up for poorly written apps and I have just put a "Force a misbehaving application to quit" on Fedora's Gnome Taskbar.
I have not come to a conclusion whether the so called "parasite" distros are good for those of us that use Linux systems or not. If we want Linux to have a greater user base and bring users from Redmond then distros like Sabayon might have a great worth.
As far as Gentoo I hope to have the time soon to investigate it further soon. My first Gento install attempt created an xorg.conf that did not function and after learning how to deal with that my satas were not found so the attempt to use Gentoo has for now ended there.

Thanks again,
Namaste,

Kevin Tough

I guess I am just a pushover for gettin' talking about distros :|

My recipe for installing Gentoo took me a while to arrive at.
I use either an existing installation, logged in as root, or a liveCD (knoppix, whatever), and do it all from within the luxury of a familiar environment, with all the nice tools to hand. . The key thing is to have a nice desktop up where you can go doing serious stuff like creating partitions, use a file manager, have graphical editors, etc. and maybe an internet connection.

Having the Gentoo manual open on the screen, for mark and middle button copy also helps. This is not going to be a real how-to, but in general, it goes a bit like this..

First the preliminary stuff of creating partitions with fdisk, or maybe just deciding to format over a partition some less impressive distro occupies. Choose here the filesystem type, and deliberately choose to do it from a terminal, not matter how fond you are of QTParted.

The whole Gentoo stage 2 can be unzip-copied straight into the place you want the / directory to be. Magazine CD, downloaded .iso, whatever. I actually used a right-click "extract to here"

Next step is to make the portage directory, and unzip copy the Portage snapshot in.

Then there are some straightforward things to do, not all of which you will want or need to. This is stuff like typing in the network gateway address, and editing /etc/fstab to tell it what partitions are going to be mounted. The manual is excellent, and you can watch all sorts of interesting stuff going on in an open Konsole (assumes KDE) terminal window. The very fun bits are discovering how easy it is to compile your own kernel, and how to include only the stuff that will make your specific hardware fly. I tell you honestly that if I can do it, then nearly anybody can. If you have the skill to become a registered logged-in user of this forum, it is enough.

Chrooting into the Gentoo environment from within a already installed distro works fine. You can quit, shut down, come back later and play some more. I even wrote a couple of short scripts to deliver the few commands that set up the Gentoo install terminal because I got tired of re-typing the chroot stuff whenever I returned. The approach is not to be in a hurry. Do not set out to install Gentoo on a particular day, or by a certain time. If you want it like that, play with Sabayon.

There is no question that anyone attempting it learns lots by undertaking this process, and this is not just about Linux or Gentoo. You even learn some stuff about yourself! Messing with Gentoo rapidly exposes many little breaking points and the instant-gratification hedonists need not apply. You would be stopping to consider things, read about them, and start crafting your choices. You end up with blisteringly fast Gentoo command line, and you already know to consider going on a weekend holiday after typing "emerge KDE" You start to appreciate that Konqueror is the best thing about KDE. So much about all the other main distros suddenly slides into place.

In many ways, Sabayon is the reactionary response to Gentoo. Gentoo is all about choice, and total control about what you construct, and you suffer your own mistakes, and fix them. Sabayon is all about populist play with all the "latest bleeding edge technologies". I find the phrase a bit pretentious, but that is a personal preference of no real account. Sabayon's gift is applications, with with near-zero choice about the functional underlying system. For some things, that is actually good! We should be using computers as much as possible doing real stuff. It is true that most of the high profile "real stuff" from Sabayon is entertainment related, but there is lots of software there for other purposes.

For me, I happen to need control of, and confidence in, the underlying system. I do not have the skill to attempt LFS (Linux from Scratch) and I am in awe of those who do. My end use PCs might not have screens or keyboards, and things may well get very unpleasant or dangerous if they mess up. It is not a place for Sabayon!

Sabayon, what a breath of fresh air, having moved up through the various ranks of distors, an the things that work, and things which don't work out of the box, but can be made to work, with a little help, and the ability to follow instructions. I found, by mistake Sabayon, now i have it running as my daily OS on aDell64 over wifi quite happily, however to get to this state, i found that an emerge of beryl was required just to add that little extra stability.. that being said, it does just about anything you can do on any alternative OS, but straight after install.. Scanner, Webcam, and all in 64bit mode.. I would recommend this distro to anyone with some faily decent kit, who's plyed around with Linux, and wants to learn a little more..

I'm not that bothered if i have something which is propritiory like screen drivers, if the OS works.. and am more than happy to use NDISWrapper for my Wifi, if it works.. a point lost on many.. first make it work, then make it Linux..

And to add to boot, i showed the brother in law at the weekend, and because of the flash graphics, now he is taking his first tentative steps into the world of Linux... as are a few at work.. the "Oh, that looks better than vista" and "Its free you say.." questions.. come back with the right answers.. and low and behold, thye are all breaking out the partition magic..

I tried the mini cd on my Dell laptop, but could never get it to recognize my linksys wireless N pcmcia card. When I tried to use ndiswrapper it kept telling me "permission denied. I was running the live CD, but I'm not putting it on the hard drive until I'm sure I can get the wifi working. It also seems to have a tendency to hang when shutting down, both from the DVD and the CD. If I try to reboot, it will tell me it is shutting down, but I always have to power off or reboot manually.

Hi gerryggg

Surprised I was when I found this thread still going. Sabayon has had some updates since I first tried it.

When running a liveCD, it would be unusual to be simply allowed full access to the PC just from a default demo run. Using a liveCD, started up with full root authority is possible, especially with liveCDs intended for repair/recovery. Its all about what options you force when starting up.

I would guess that if the Sabayon hardware detection cannot get a wifi connection up from a PCMCIA card on a liveCD tryout, then conclude that making that bit function well on a real full install would not be automatic. This is not to say it could not be done, or possibly even done quite easily with a little checking via Google.

You could install the test distro on a partition, while not giving it the right to install its own GRUB and so take over the whole booting. Then, adding it as a boot choice to your existing distro would allow you to explore it without compromising what you already have. If it cannot get the Wifi right, you can simply trash the whole partition, returning the space for your own use.

Probably the ultimate way is to temporarily substitute a different hard drive, and let it do its worst. Whatever you do, don't let it loose without backing up your own created data, and downloads you want to keep. The distros can be easily replaced, but your own stuff is way more important!

I have used other live CDs (Puppy Linux for example) and while they may not be able to configure the interface, they usually will at least see it. I have another PC running Debian 5 with a PCI wireless G card. Sabayon did not see that card either. I may try what you suggest when I get a chance. I have hte Debian PC and another one I just picked up I can install a wireless card in to see if it finds it when installed on a hard drive partition. Thanks for the reply. I was wondering if anyone would respond since the dates on the other posts were so old. I'm using the 5 Oh! version. I figured I'd post and see what would happen. I'll let you know what happens when I try it. My everday computer runs Kubuntu and I have to use XP for work so I have a partition on that PC for XP and have it on my laptop for when I travel. I like to dabble in other distros now and then to check them out. I am trying to understand Samba and get it to work. So far I can always see and access the windows PCs but the Linux PCs either don't show up or they do, but won't allow me access. Gentoo is one distro I've never tried. I've tried Freespire, Mepis, PC Linux, Mandriva, Ubuntu, Xubuntu, in addition to Debian and Kubuntu to name a few. I keep coming back to Kubuntu although there are a few things I don't like about it. That's probably why I "dabble." :-)

Hi gerryggg

Firstly - if you are trying out distros, I would strongly advise against using Gentoo as an everyday desktop distro. The whole point about Gentoo is that the choices are totally yours, and every program is compiled from source in a way that is optimized for your particular hardware, and can be set up with a kernel to take advantage of the processor go-faster features, instead of a generic kernel designed to run fail-safe on a wide range of hardware. By all means, play with it. It is a great learning experience. It is a "rolling distro" in that it is versionless, always at the very latest state . It has its own special features, like the Portage package management system, but is otherwise a wide open powerful thing that is somewhat unfriendly.

BUT BUT BUT !!! it comes with nothing! All the little helper programs, services, firewalls, the desktop etc. have to be selected and compiled and configured by you to play well with each other. Its just a whole lot of work. About the only stage more basic is to do the LFS (Linux from Scratch) route, and roll your own. For speed, there is nothing much that can match a hand-tuned Gentoo, but the actual advantage is not so much as to be worth the hassle against prepared distros like Ubuntu running a lightweight desktop like Xfce4. I keep a Gentoo to play with, but I mess it up too often to trust myself using it for work.

Kubuntu is a somewhat awkward implementation of KDE in Ubuntu. Things may be better now with KDE4. Ubuntu has lots of support, and is a industrial strength stable distro with Gnome. Sidux is a darn speedy thing, and is surprisingly stable given that it is a constantly updating "rolling distro" using Debian's Sid (unstable) version. Sabayon always was a Gentoo-derived setup, basically a pre-compiled set of binaries like any other distro, but mangled with lots of symlinks, scripts and quite obscure arrangements, to deliver a huge set of applications with emphasis on multimedia, games, and graphic goodies. For me, it was never going to be OK for satellite telemetry.

I know we are spoiled for choice, but Linux has matured. The distos that top the list at Distrowatch.com have filtered there for many complex reasons. They fall from grace very quickly if they do not serve us well. If you want some direct (vitriolic?) reviews on most distros, try the rants of of Maurice at techiemoe.com.

Thanks for the advice. I have a "new" (older) compputer to play with so maybe I'll play with Gentoo. I downloaded and took a quick look at Sidux with both XFCE and KDElite. I have the live CDs, so maybe I'll take them for a whirl. For now I'm going to stick with Kubuntu for my day to day as I have a stable working setup. KDE 4 is OK, but not exactly what I want. I like XFCE as it seems quick but I'm not enamored of Thunar. You're right about being spoiled, though. There's almost (almost) too many choices. I guess my real hope is to learn enough to "roll my own." I used to do that to some degree with Windows, especially database programs like Paradox and Access. Rather than try to find a program that did what I wanted, I just made one. No one should know what I want better than me, huh?