Are Syrian people banned from getting Red Hat certifications ?

WhisperiN · 05-04-2011, 06:34 PM

Hello dear fellows,

I'm writing this post, deeply sad within my heart..!!
I'll start over, with my whole issue.

I'm a Syrian Citizen, lived all my life in Saudi Arabia.
Long years ago, I had a dream called: RHCE..
This dream grew up to be an RH***.

A month ago, I started to see my dream coming true..
I traveled (moved) from Saudi Arabia to India, leaving my family, my business and home behind planning to spend like a year in India for only one purpose, RH training and certification.

I reached India, and I started my first course.. RHCE..!!
Every thing was so pleasant and cheerful till the exam day.

Once, I attended the lap, where we should do our exam, the examiner dropped my out of the lap, once I was proofing my ID using my passport, claiming that I can't had RH certification as I'm Syrian.

I've tried to explain to RH India, that the embargo is targeting the country itself for importing and exporting, and the people who live inside Syria but not the whole nationality..
They kept refusing me even with my repeated emails to them.

Here is the last email I got from RH India:

---------------------------------------

Received: from [10.11.8.116] (vpn-8-116.rdu.redhat.com [10.11.8.116])
by int-mx10.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p427lLES032100;
Mon, 2 May 2011 03:47:23 -0400
Subject: Re: Fwd: To PIC in Red Hat, India and IPSR Ltd.
From: Anand Bellan Raman <anandbr@redhat.com>
To: xxxxxxxxx
Cc: Shashi Unni <sunni@redhat.com>,Rama Shankar Singh <rss@redhat.com>
Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 13:12:59 +0530
Message-Id: <1304322180.2537.16.camel@anandbr.blr.redhat.com>

Mr. Hasan

We have perused through your mail.

We wish to clarify that, there are multiple agencies that administer a
myriad of regulations and policies regarding transactions with embargoed
countries and nationals of embargoed countries. One such set of
regulations prohibits the release of technology subject to export
controls to a Syrian national (wherever located) without a license. At
this time, there is a general policy of denial for such license
applications unless they are for food or medical items. For this reason,
we regret that Red Hat is not able to offer certification to nationals
of embargoed countries, including Syria, at this time.

--
Regards,

Anand Bellan Raman,
Regional Manager (South)|Global Learning Services,
Red Hat India Pvt Ltd
Tel: +91 80 2532 0712

-----------------------------------

Hence, I'm writing here..
Please advise me with any information you have, even if is only your opinion.

Also, if there is any person at RH HQ (email or phone number) where I can present my case, to get it corrected or resolved.

Deep Regards..

Hasan.

thund3rstruck · 05-04-2011, 08:18 PM

Wow.. what an awful story. I wonder if Novell has a similar embargo? The skills you learned doing RHCE should translate to NCLA or the other vendor certs.

Best of luck to you.

Valery Reznic · 05-06-2011, 03:30 AM

Everything that your learned for exam is yours, doesn't matter if you take exam or not.

I am working with Linux from 1995-1996 and never have a need to take any exam RH* of whatever.
I know there are a companies that required such certificate, but (IMO) it's not that often.

Keep learning, there are always amazing thing around.

Valery.

k3lt01 · 05-06-2011, 04:26 AM

Unfortunately you are caught in this situation merely because of your citizenship. I would think if you were a Syrian born American or British citizen (meaning you have full citizenship in those countries) you would be ok and allowed to sit the exam.

While I sympathise with you and for you these embargoes, while unfair for some people like yourself, are there for a reason. As I see it you have 4 options:
1st, keep contacting RH about it, although persistent "harrassment" may be harmful to your cause.
2nd, forget about it and use your newly learned skills without being "certified"
3rd, forget about it totally and never use these new skills again (that would be a terrible waste of talent in my opinion)
4th, take out citizenship in another, non-embargoed, country and sit the exam when you can. This would mean you would have to renounce your Syrian citizenship and I think that would be a shame to.

It appears you have some choices to make, if I were you I'd just use my new skills and hope the political situation changes soon so I could sit the exam after the embargo was lifted.

druuna · 05-06-2011, 04:38 AM

Hi,

Redhat's eula mentiones the following:

Quote:

5. Export Control. As required by the laws of the United States and other countries, you represent and warrant that you: (a) understand that the Programs and their components may be subject to export controls under the U.S. Commerce Department's Export Administration Regulations ("EAR"); (b) are not located in a prohibited destination country under the EAR or U.S. sanctions regulations (currently Cuba, Iran, Iraq, North Korea, Sudan and Syria, subject to change as posted by the United States government); (c) will not export, re-export, or transfer the Programs to any prohibited destination or persons or entities on the U.S. Bureau of Industry and Security Denied Parties List or Entity List, or the U.S. Office of Foreign Assets Control list of Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons, or any similar lists maintained by other countries, without the necessary export license(s) or authorization(s); (d) will not use or transfer the Programs for use in connection with any nuclear, chemical or biological weapons, missile technology, or military end-uses where prohibited by an applicable arms embargo, unless authorized by the relevant government agency by regulation or specific license; (e) understand and agree that if you are in the United States and export or transfers the Programs to eligible end users, you will, to the extent required by EAR Section 740.17(e), submit semi-annual reports to the Commerce Department's Bureau of Industry and Security, which include the name and address (including country) of each transferee; and (f) understand that countries including the United States may restrict the import, use, or export of encryption products (which may include the Programs and the components) and agree that you shall be solely responsible for compliance with any such import, use, or export restrictions.

First: I'm not a lawyer!! But I do wonder if you can prove you lived abroad (Saudi Arabia and India in this case) all your life if this still applies to you. The proving part might be hard, I do assume you are still a Syrian national with a Syrian passport, which might complicate things.

You might want to contact RedHat headquarters (US) and ask about the specifics of these restrictions and how they apply to you.

Hope this helps.

WhisperiN · 05-08-2011, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thund3rstruck

Wow.. what an awful story. I wonder if Novell has a similar embargo? The skills you learned doing RHCE should translate to NCLA or the other vendor certs.

Best of luck to you.

Well, it's the truth..

And thanks for your suggestion..
I'll really look into that as well.. Hope I can.

Thanks again

DavidMcCann · 05-13-2011, 11:08 AM

If you've taken the course, paying them money, and then they refuse to examine you, I'd say you have serious grounds for complaint and legal action. I suspect an Indian court would not have much sympathy for RH India attempting to enforce US laws in India.

szboardstretcher · 05-13-2011, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMcCann

If you've taken the course, paying them money, and then they refuse to examine you, I'd say you have serious grounds for complaint and legal action. I suspect an Indian court would not have much sympathy for RH India attempting to enforce US laws in India.

Syria is primarily Muslim. India is primarily Hindu. I thought India pushed out all the muslim peoples, back in the early days, out to pakistan or something.

In short, I suspect that an Indian court will have plenty of sympathy towards US export laws.

Any way you chop this up, its stupid. The RHCE shouldn't be only for those of a certain race or belief or non-belief, or hair cut or country of birth.

Maybe, try getting a dual citizenship somewhere else.

snowday · 05-13-2011, 12:13 PM

Red Hat's largest customer is the United States Department of Defense. For example the US Navy nuclear submarine fleet runs Red Hat Linux. Obeying the US embargo is not an arbitrary choice by Red Hat; if they disobey the rules, they are in big trouble with some very powerful people!

I feel sympathy for you WhisperiN. It sucks when our lives as individual human beings are impacted by global political issues and by the accident of where we were born. But if you have faith in your skills and experience, I believe you can succeed despite the obstacles in your path! Good luck.

DavidMcCann · 05-14-2011, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by szboardstretcher

Syria is primarily Muslim. India is primarily Hindu. I thought India pushed out all the muslim peoples, back in the early days, out to pakistan or something. In short, I suspect that an Indian court will have plenty of sympathy towards US export laws.

Indian contract law is based on that of England, just as that of USA is. A contract is a contract, and courts will enforce it or give damages for non-compliance.

Pakistan was created by Britain, at the request of Muslim political parties, as a Muslim state. India, however, separates the state and religion. They certainly didn't push anyone out: there were 138,000,000 Muslims there at the last count! India has always been proud of its non-alignment, and has criticised the current US administration. Their leaders are not "president's poodles" as so many British PMs are.

deadeyes · 05-22-2011, 05:59 AM

Really sad to hear your story.

In the end it is just a bunch of jibberish. You learned these skills so if you are certified that you have that knowledge or not doesn't make a difference.
Really great to see your devotion! But don't get disappointed and look into the future instead of the past, your knowledge and devotion will probably give you great opportunities.