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Old 05-19-2018, 03:00 PM   #16
teckk
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Yup, the US is in a mess. And that's because we have two major groups
of people who have been traveling in opposite directions for 40 years
now. And when you travel in opposite directions, over time you get
farther and farther apart. The two major political sides are so far
apart now that they can't even relate to each other as human beings.

2nd. And this is a BIG problem. We don't have any honest, unbiased,
reliable, believable media in the US now. What do I mean by that?
Someone who stands on the corner, watches what happens, then reports
it to the rest of us who weren't there, so that we know what happened.
Nope, we have radical left NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS and then radical right
Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter etc. You have to dig through all of the
biased crap to try and determine what you think really happened. These
companies are nothing more of less than political action groups.

And then there are a whole lot of people in the US that we refer to as
low information people. They don't want to know anything. They can't tell
you what is being celebrated on the fourth of july, or who the US declared
independence from. They don't know who their Senators or Representative is
or even what congressional district that they live in. Now, that might not
be so bad except for the fact that they are allowed to vote. How do you know
if your elected rep is doing a good job or not if you don't even know who
he/she is? You can't.

So when you see dueling facts being presented....well one has to try and figure
out what one thinks really is happening. Or do as many Americans do.....pick a
side like football fans do and root for it regardless of how well they do.

There is one thing I do agree with in the Trump campaign/rhetoric

DRAIN THE SWAMP!

And then maybe...start teaching actual math, reading, writing, history....facts in
the government indoctrination centers....err excuse me.. I mean public schools.
 
Old 05-19-2018, 06:44 PM   #17
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I do acknowledge that the US has plenty of radical right, or rather what recently passes for Conservative, news sources but I truly don't understand how anyone can imagine that NBC, ABC, CBS and I'll add CNN and even MSNBC (PBS, being privately endowed, is another story) can be seen as radical left since they are Corporate in a Capitalistic State. They are in business to make a profit and must answer to shareholders. How many corporations can anyone list that has a policy of biting the hand that feeds?
 
Old 05-20-2018, 01:03 AM   #18
jsbjsb001
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Trump's basically admitted that when he says "fake news", he actually means news that he doesn't like (regardless of whether it's true or not) - as long suspected.

That's NOT "fake news" in my book. It's like saying "well, I don't agree with you so you must be just "fake news"". So anyone who disagrees just must be "fake news" ? Sorry, but no, it does not make it "fake news".

I also believe Trump has "drained the swamp" and he's created his own to replace it. Whats the point of draining it in the first place then?
 
Old 05-20-2018, 08:33 AM   #19
teckk
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Quote:
Trump's basically admitted that when he says "fake news", he actually means news that he doesn't like
http://thefederalist.com/2017/02/06/...nce-trump-won/

https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/...y_cnn_enjoy_d/

http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/08/7-...-news-in-2017/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journal...nstream-media/

http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/02/medi...ies/index.html

https://gop.com/the-highly-anticipat...e-news-awards/

https://ivn.us/2016/11/21/25-fake-ne...nstream-media/

etc. etc. etc.....

It isn't an orange haired narcissist that is the biggest threat to this
constitutional republic, he can be removed in 4 years max.
And this did not start with Trump. I've watched this happen for 35 or so years now. They used to be coy about it and pretend that they were objective. Now, they openly campaign for "Their" candidate right in their "News broadcasts" I watched Gwen Ifel(deceased) openly support Obama right in her PBS "news" broadcast, while doing a "fair and objective report". Nonsense. Fortunately the public is finally responding by turning the crap off. (Look at their ratings).

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...ry_trustworthy

https://www.rt.com/usa/340124-americ...edia-plummets/

They have for years tried to move public thinking with their "Fake News" broadcasts. Trump did not make up that term. He simply voiced what we saw the "media" doing for many years.

The question was if people thought Trump was a racist, mysoginist etc. Ok, first address the media circling the wagons around Clinton when there were woman accusing him of forceable rape. I would say that's really misogyny. Worse than bragging about touching women on thier private things.

Then address the media circling the wagons around Obama, refusing to vet him at all so that the public might learn something about him, and then trying to cover for him by refusing to report news stories that were not favorable to him....Limbaugh, Fox news...etc was the only places to find out about what was going on,...the "media" made it clear that they were not going to do it. And it was because he was part black, period. Not because he was doing anything great for the country, just the opposite, he was trying to destroy the US that we knew, all the while bowing and scraping to foreign dictators. I would say that was racism, giving someone a pass just because they are a color.

Then lets talk about the "media" altering audio recordings like in the Trayvon Martin killing in order to stir up the listeners. There we riots because of that, where people were killed. Can we hold that media responsible for accessory to their deaths? I would say that they committed a crime here.

Why did I say all that? It's part of the reason that Trump made it into the WH. It wasn't because 50 percent of Americans hate blacks and Homosexuals etc.. Hillary (the "media's" candidate) could not even get 50 percent of the female vote in the US. In a day when women really really really want a female president.

Another words, the fake media is a bigger threat to freedom, safely, womens rights, justice, power to the people, than orange hair could ever be. Fortunately they no longer have a strangle hold on the flow of information across the world. And with that has come abuses. Like right wing "fake news".

Then some talk about a socialist candidate being great. Are you sure that you want to go there? Socialist Europe is just about to commit cultural suicide by letting in lots of people who have stated that they hate Europe and want to take it over. There is a rape epidemic in Sweden/Germany now like they have not seen before, and it's due to migrants, not right wingers. It has resulted in a uprising of the "right wing" like not seen in Europe since the people with lightening bolts on their collars. And what is the socialist response? Hard head on and shove it down citizens throats. No thanks.

It isn't that Trump was so great. There just wasn't any other choice.
 
Old 05-20-2018, 02:44 PM   #20
enorbet
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Since this thread has moved to the possible source, so-called "fake news", it might be productive to jump back in the game. Fake news, for lack of a better word since there is a difference between complete fabrication and slanted, even agenda-ridden reporting. Journalists talk about the hallowed days of "real journalism" and while there is some increased ability due to public access especially via The Webz, nothing has fundamentally changed because people drive these things and people haven't changed.

There are still visible on ancient walls in Rome graffiti that either heralds or vilifies prominent citizens and likely some of it was trtue or at least had credence while others were fairly obviously even now meant only to create laughter and or defamation of character. One had to be careful to know what was real even back then.

In the US it is said that the so-called Spanish-American War was all but completely fabricated by Randolph Hearst. There is considerable evidence to support that claim.

The point is that "fake news" is very commonly a mixture of truth, half-truths and possibly some outright lies and it has always existed. It's not new it's just more visible. It is as always wise to be very careful about what we accept as "gospel".

In that vein I would be cautious about claiming that Limbaugh, Fox News et al are purveyors of "real journalism" in the pure sense by anybodies standards. All of those of that ilk have also been caught with not only agenda-ridden half-truths but also with outright fabrication often for political agenda but underneath that is the knowledge that sensational news sells.

It is credible that Clinton's rape case should be re-opened, that NBC did in fact half-heartedly and incredibly apologize for tape editing. It is also true that Pizzagate was a complete fabrication and the gunmen who did fire shots demanding to be taken to "the basement where the children are captive" that didn't even exist the lie was so transparent could easily have killed people instead of just firing at walls had the situation been handled any differently.

OTOH it is not the province of Journalists to vet President-Elects and you can safely bet that if there was even the tiniest grain of compromising possibility Limbaugh, Jones, and Fox to name just a few would have been all over that and they did try. Obama was vetted by the same inquiries that all president elects go through - 1) Is at least 35 years old, 2) Was born a citizen of the US, and 3) has lived in country for at least 14 years. Many so-called journalists questioned the authenticity of his citizenship despite that it should be obvious that no political party would take a gamble on that issue. It had to be rock solid. To question that still in 2018 is disingenuous and counter-productive to "real journalism" let alone Truth.

Neither so-called extreme, Right or Left, is exempt. In most cases just follow the money and if that doesn't work follow the agendas versus the actual evidence.
 
Old 05-20-2018, 03:30 PM   #21
ChuangTzu
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Regarding Fake News, I suggest these books:

Propaganda by Edward Bernays

Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert B. Cialdini

Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky

After those books it will make sense.
 
Old 05-21-2018, 11:15 AM   #23
cynwulf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teckk View Post
Socialist Europe is just about to commit cultural suicide by letting in lots of people who have stated that they hate Europe and want to take it over.
Who are these "Socialist Europe" governments you're referring to?
 
Old 05-23-2018, 11:56 AM   #24
urbanwks
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Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
19) Opened the dialogue of mental health issues
Definitely agree.
 
Old 05-23-2018, 02:37 PM   #25
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26) NFL (US Football) announced they are banning players from kneeling during the national anthem.
 
Old 05-23-2018, 04:13 PM   #26
jefro
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NFL figured out that many viewers are offended by what they perceive as privileged professional sport employees voicing opinions not related to the sports game. A dramatic loss of revenue prompted the move. The league union claims they have the right to express political views while in an on the clock status.
 
Old 05-23-2018, 05:22 PM   #27
ChuangTzu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
NFL figured out that many viewers are offended by what they perceive as privileged professional sport employees voicing opinions not related to the sports game. A dramatic loss of revenue prompted the move. The league union claims they have the right to express political views while in an on the clock status.
Sometimes hitting "them" in the pocketbook is the best way to cause change.... Massive numbers of people supported what Pres. Trump was saying regarding kneeling during the anthem as being disrespectful and as a result stopped watching the NFL and/or stopped attending games. Victory for President Trump, victory for the flag, victory for soldiers (past and present), and it was announced just before Memorial Day.

PS: these were the same athletes that stood at attention for the UK anthem then kneeled for the US anthem. Hypocrites as well.
 
Old 05-28-2018, 02:49 AM   #28
jsbjsb001
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With it being suggested that Trump deserves the "Nobel Peace Prize", I was wondering if people think he does deserve that?

From what I can see:

It does seem to me like the pressure he was putting on particularly China to take a harder line with North Korea, does seen to have made at least some difference there. While I think it's debatable how much credit he really deserves there, I think he does in fairness deserve at least some credit for the progress that seems to have been made there. As, I think it's fair to say that North Korea has never been this close to reaching some kind of deal/agreement/understanding with particularly South Korea.

I think also that this could probably not have happened without China's pressure on North Korea.

Wondering what other people's takes on this are (or ain't for that matter) ?

Do people think this "US and North Korea Trump-Kim summit" is going to happen ?
 
Old 05-28-2018, 07:58 AM   #29
hazel
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Doesn't look like it, does it. Trump seems unable to keep a steady course from one day to the next. His tweets seem almost random. Unless of course he's playing a very deep Machiavellian game, which I don't think very likely.
 
Old 05-28-2018, 10:23 AM   #30
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
Sometimes hitting "them" in the pocketbook is the best way to cause change.... Massive numbers of people supported what Pres. Trump was saying regarding kneeling during the anthem as being disrespectful and as a result stopped watching the NFL and/or stopped attending games. Victory for President Trump, victory for the flag, victory for soldiers (past and present), and it was announced just before Memorial Day.

PS: these were the same athletes that stood at attention for the UK anthem then kneeled for the US anthem. Hypocrites as well.
With all due respect, I would vastly prefer a president be unconcerned with such trivial appearances and mindless "Me Too-s" and deal better with real issues that actually affect how the country works in the world and peoples lives. This to me smacks of the Tea Party quibbling with trembling lips of anger and hatred that Obama "wouldn't wear a Stars 'n Stripes Flag pin. Give me a freakin' break from baby kissers, flag wavers, bible thumpers and the like and lets just get right down to ringing Pavlov's Bell. Sheesh!
 
  


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