Quote:
Originally Posted by jay73
Is that American law? Surely you don't mean that companies can impose conditions that break any laws? European contintental law would declare such conditions void the moment anyone took it to court.
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That's basic contract law. Almost every country will have a form of "you bargain for it, you accept it, you're bound by it". However, no, a contract cannot have terms that violate the law. That, however, is part of this discussion.
There is no law (to my knowledge) that prevents a person from installing software onto a user's machine with or without their knowledge. Again, given my knowledge of
actual, on-the-books law, software use/installation is, in a sense
caveat emptor (or buyer beware -- because there is no law on point).
The proposed legislation seeks to inform the user about software that will be installed; that is, to make it illegal for a company to install
certain types of software without informing the user.
So when I said "[c]ompanies can do that now", I was referring to the fact that if there's no law against it, they can add that term as part of the license. If the user accepts it, the user is bound. That touches on the validity of shrinkwrap licenses (terms and conditions imposed on use that the consumer cannot see until after purchase) and whether they are fair to the user, but that's outside the scope of this proposed legislation. The legislation doesn't concern itself about
when the user receives notice--only that the user
does receive notice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay73
Which is the whole point that the OP is raising: new legislation may create room for practices that until now have been illegal.
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But that's where the OP and I differ. I don't believe it's granting new practices because there was no law preventing the practice earlier. If there was no law, the company and user are free to bargain on the terms for the software (even though it is a take-it-or-leave-it situation). Once the user accepts, the user is bound.
If someone
is aware of a statute/law relevant to the allowed installation of software, please let me know; I'd like to read it. Which also means I'd need a citation/reference to the US code (or a source that would direct me to it).
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschiwal
I think that what this amounts to is allowing media companies to apply coercion. You're computer video player won't work unless you give up your right to privacy. The opt-in might be implicit in installing the player software or by installing certain OSes.
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Side note before I respond: I haven't forgotten about that patent thread
I'll be going back to respond about the prior art patent history as soon as I am done with school for this semester.
If I understand what you're saying, the point you're arguing is an issue related to software licensing and not what this legislation provides (notice & consent to software that analyzes personal use). The coercion exists with or without this legislation simply because of the take-it-or-leave-it nature of licensing. Again, that's something companies have been allowed to do for a long time. There are limits though. If terms are "unconscionable" or "against public policy", they can be ignored or thrown out, but it's a very high burden for unconscionability and public policy is very hard to define.
However, my experience with court opinions leads me to disagree with your last statement. The only time notice and consent would ever be implied are for necessity provisions. That is, you are implicitly given notice and providing consent that your video player can send video and audio signals to your TV. That transmission is absolutely necessary to the underlying purpose of the video player. Functions unrelated to the purpose of the product are scrutinized more closely. Greater scrutiny is applied to functions separated by greater amounts from the underlying purpose. I don't have specific case citations for that point, but simply from my exposure to contract case law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschiwal
After the Sony Root kit was discovered, the RIAA sued under the DMCA to make shift keys on keyboards illegal.
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That would be interesting to read about as well. Do you have a link where I can get more info?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xor
A sincere congrats and kudos to you. Good luck on you endeavor .
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Thank you! Thank you very much. I'm sure I'll need a lot of luck. I may have to get you to overnight it to me
Quote:
Originally Posted by xor
yeah I know what you are thinking God Damm Populist, Liberal. Well yes, I am.
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To each his own my friend!
I'm not bothered by any political stance as long as the person is willing to discuss things calmly and rationally. There are good and bad points for all political ideology, but that's all I'll say about it because I don't want tis to turn into a political thread.
However, I do love playing Devil's Advocate a lot. So, to anyone reading this, please, please, please never take my responses to be personal attacks. I've always liked to understand the reasoning behind people's views. To do that, questions need to be asked and points made that are in direct conflict with previous assertions. Not only do I personally like playing Devil's Advocate, law school forces you to think differently: a lawyer
must be able to see
and argue all sides of an issue. It's not always a matter of an attorney arguing for his or her convictions; it's a matter of an attorney arguing
the law as best as possible to advance the client's interests. That paints an unflattering picture of the profession at times (with the public thinking lawyers are two-faced), and that's putting it nicely.
EDIT:
Sorry for the length of the post everyone, but I'm going to "disappear" until finals are over with, and I wanted to address as much as I could before I vanished. So I leave you all to "discuss"