The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs Frankly getting bored with it, gentlemen ...

As am I...

Ooh a shiny-thing, beings...

@OregonJim, @enorbet: mature, constructive discussion is what helps make LQ a great place to be. And sure, there's no problem with discussions getting a bit lively. Discussing things also means trying to really understand what moves fellow LQ members. The best way to avoid that is to stop trusting one another, stop listening, stop asking the right questions. This almost always ends up as a set of monologues, wild accusations, and if we're lucky an outburst of Godwins' Law (meaning I can close the thread w/o any thought and smack ppl good).

Not all topics were created equal. That goes especially for volatile threads like "The Faith & Religion mega Thread". In the end you have both shown you failed to carry the discussion in a mature, constructive way. This means I'm gonna put both of you in your own corner to cool down. For the time being this means no replies to each others posts, no taunting, no hinting, no snide remarks, no spillage elsewhere nor anything else that can be construed as addressing this little accident in any way.

I'll be revisiting this thread in a few days and if I find you have deliberately ignored my directive there will be repercussions.

@All: the above goes for the rest of you too. I do not want to see anyone "fanning the embers" so to speak. Get this thread on topic with mature, constructive posts that actually foster discussion or forego posting.

Originally Posted by unSpawn \This means I'm gonna put both of you in your own corner to cool down. For the time being this means no replies to each others posts, no taunting, no hinting, no snide remarks, no spillage elsewhere nor anything else that can be construed as addressing this little accident in any way.

No problem. Thanks for addressing the issue.

Elon Musk recently said it's highly probable we're in a simulation. Whether that's true or not I believe heaven is real, and that we're all ONE connected through God's love..

Originally Posted by bluesclues227 Elon Musk recently said it's highly probable we're in a simulation. Whether that's true or not I believe heaven is real, and that we're all ONE connected through God's love..

Except "we're" is some and "all" are all, "one" in your context will never bring us ALL love.

Thanks, unSpawn, for giving us all the opportunity to stand back and rethink our attitudes to one another.
I'm genuinely interested in why people, not just Christians (and what flavour of Christian are you, or do you follow your own path?) believe as they do. If you're Christian do you simply hold a belief in God, or is Bible study an important part of your religion, as well.
Do you have religious beliefs, but non-Christian? Please, give some input to this thread, and give us a change of view, and fresh subjects for consideration.

Originally Posted by Celtic Yokel I'm genuinely interested in why people, not just Christians (and what flavour of Christian are you, or do you follow your own path?) believe as they do. If you're Christian do you simply hold a belief in God, or is Bible study an important part of your religion, as well. Do you have religious beliefs, but non-Christian? Please, give some input to this thread, and give us a change of view, and fresh subjects for consideration.

Belief in God is not sufficient to make you a Christian. After all, Jews and Muslims believe in the same God, and so do many people who don't belong to any organised religion. The historic creeds, particularly the Apostles' Creed, lay down more or less the minimum one has to believe to count as a Christian.

Christians believe that Jesus is the incarnate Son of God, that he died for our sins (however you interpret that) and rose again on the third day. We believe that he ascended to rejoin his Father and that all those who believe in him and accept him as their Lord are saved through his death. And yes, all Christians do take the Bible very seriously as the word of God, but we often disagree about how to interpret it.

As to why I believe, I became logically convinced of the truth of the Christian Faith when I was about 18, as a result of reading the theological works of C.S.Lewis, and I still believe it at 72. But not everybody comes by that road; for some, their conversion is a much more emotional experience.

Originally Posted by hazel Belief in God is not sufficient to make you a Christian. After all, Jews and Muslims believe in the same God, and so do many people who don't belong to any organised religion. The historic creeds, particularly the Apostles' Creed, lay down more or less the minimum one has to believe to count as a Christian. Christians believe that Jesus is the incarnate Son of God, that he died for our sins (however you interpret that) and rose again on the third day. We believe that he ascended to rejoin his Father and that all those who believe in him and accept him as their Lord are saved through his death. And yes, all Christians do take the Bible very seriously as the word of God, but we often disagree about how to interpret it. As to why I believe, I became logically convinced of the truth of the Christian Faith when I was about 18, as a result of reading the theological works of C.S.Lewis, and I still believe it at 72. But not everybody comes by that road; for some, their conversion is a much more emotional experience.

Well said!

(C.S. Lewis' "Mere Christianity" is a great classic)

Originally Posted by jamison20000e Except "we're" is some and "all" are all, "one" in your context will never bring us ALL love.

Now that's just nit-picking, and I never said anything about bringing us all love. Although that is the main goal of humanity in my opinion, to better ourselves through helping others. So it's cool that you inferred that!

Originally Posted by Celtic Yokel Thanks, unSpawn, for giving us all the opportunity to stand back and rethink our attitudes to one another. I'm genuinely interested in why people, not just Christians (and what flavour of Christian are you, or do you follow your own path?) believe as they do. If you're Christian do you simply hold a belief in God, or is Bible study an important part of your religion, as well. Do you have religious beliefs, but non-Christian? Please, give some input to this thread, and give us a change of view, and fresh subjects for consideration.

I think that it is vitally important to realize that "Christian" (like everything else ...) "is an Attribute!"

Furthermore, "it is a voluntary attribute." It is a moniker by which an individual chooses to describe himself . . .

. . . therefore, "strictly according to what that individual decides that this (self-chosen!) moniker means to him/her!"

Which, in short, is why it remains quite-impossible to characterize <<Christians | Jews | Muslims | Buddhists | Atheists | ... ...>>

"Dammit to <<someplace or noplace>>, they're all HUMAN!"

Uh, huh. "Yes, they are."

Even though I and, (say...) @OregonJim might simultaneously choose to self-identify ourselves as "Christians," it is utterly impossible to lump both of us into the same class. (And, I now live "smack-dab in the middle of The Bible Belt.™" I defy you to "group me" with (or, without ...) any of the many-thousands of nearby people who, each in their own(!) personal(!!) way(!!!), self-identify themselves under the same enormous(!) label.)

Welcome to ... humanity.

In programming-language terms ... ... "<<Christian|etc.>>" is an attribute, not a class! . . .

. . . used by . . . (ick ...)

. . . [other ...]people.

. . . . . . (ick! ...)

. . . just . . .

. . . . . . . . . like . . .

you.

(Sux...)

Welcome to ... humanity.

(So, c'mon, let's turn this thread around, so that it can go on for another four hundred pages!)

Originally Posted by Celtic Yokel ... I'm genuinely interested in why people, not just Christians (and what flavour of Christian are you, or do you follow your own path?) believe as they do. If you're Christian do you simply hold a belief in God, or is Bible study an important part of your religion, as well. Do you have religious beliefs, but non-Christian? Please, give some input to this thread, and give us a change of view, and fresh subjects for consideration.

Aside from personal entertainments I don't see this panning out much. Surely (and Defazio) people whether born into it or not, go-to—may-not or leave religion for infinite reasons?

For us better to look at why it is r\evolving mainly divide and (not) concur then ("unimaginable tracks") perhaps that's just because we still keep the crap parts like fear and shame to teach more brilliant minds?

And, "nit-picking?" It's clear to me* Christianity (and most religion) is an Attribute" in too-many wrong directions or brain workings if you may.!?

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs I think that it is vitally important to realize that "Christian" (like everything else ...) "is an Attribute!"

No, it is not simply an "attribute". It is the very definition of one's life!

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs . . . therefore, "strictly according to what that individual decides that this (self-chosen!) moniker means to him/her!"

I don't agree, nor do other true Christians. The meaning is well-defined - there is a core set of immutable beliefs that define a "Christian". Simply calling yourself one without holding to those core beliefs is...well...simply calling yourself one, not being one. As hazel pointed out already, the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed are the "bare minimum". Those of us who are "reformed" also hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith.

Has anyone here ever been lucid in a dram or perhaps "left their body?"

Expand: other people (as well) have had lucid dreams whereas none has ever left their body, one proven fact and one unprovable(!. See how that works#$&c?)

Originally Posted by OregonJim No, it is not simply an "attribute". It is the very definition of one's life! [...] I don't agree, nor do other true Christians. The meaning is well-defined - there is a core set of immutable beliefs that define a "Christian". Simply calling yourself one without holding to those core beliefs is...well...simply calling yourself one, not being one. As hazel pointed out already, the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed are the "bare minimum". Those of us who are "reformed" also hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith.

Jim, I respectfully yield to your expression of what is "True." I yield, also, to what you consider to be "minimum," and "reformed." (I will [u]also/u], certainly, yield to whatever may be your opinion about me.)

And, let me never be judged (someday) to be one that "caused your feet to stumble" based on any of these differences. Let me never be one who said that you were in any way "wrong." As each and every one of us stumbles from the cradle to the grave, we must see everyone around us as fellow sojourners. We do not see eye to eye, and yet I see you as my Brother. I do not ask you to do the same. I do not deny that you might feel that "I am 'not' one."

Let us, now, re-direct this thread. Let us ... all(!) ... "park" differences, perhaps un-resolved and perhaps "never to be resolved," and pursue other mutual interests within the grand topic of this now-ancient thread.