The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by OregonJim Sure. The Discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls which eliminated any doubts that our text had become corrupted over the centuries. Archeological discovery of the cities of Sodom & Gomorrah (which many thought was allegorical). The archaeological discovery of Jericho, which was another city many thought to be 'fable'. Also, the fullfillment of prophecy in recent years, such as the return of the Jews to the promised land and the re-emergence of the state of Israel in 1948 after nearly 2000 years. Simply the fact that the Israelites survived as a people, just as God promised, without being lost (remember, people have been trying to wipe them out since the very beginning - most recently by Hitler, Islam, and ISIS). When was the last time you met a Hittite? Jebusite? Caananite? Any other 'ite' but an Israelite? Those are just a few. Hopefully you understand the terms 'confidence' and 'faith' better than our friend does.

Thank you so much.

The Jewish world was full of Messiahs, and the Romans executed a'plenty of 'em.

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As far as "-ites" go, it's really difficult to trace where the descendants of a particular people wound up. But many people in South and Central America would be very quick to tell you that, say, the Mayans did not disappear at all. If you look at their faces, you see that what they're saying is true. The cultures of early Biblical times were mostly nomadic, and deserts are very difficult places to live.

Deserts are also very contradictory to the maintenance of good archeological record, especially when most people can neither read nor write. Not many archives were created, that we know of, and it might be better to describe "the Dead Sea Scrolls" as "the Dead Sea Confetti."

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If you look for "proof" that a particular Book is: "Inspired. Absolute. Final™," then you will surely find just what you are looking for, to your own satisfaction. Yup, the answers to all the world's questions, right there in sixty-six books, and if one doesn't believe it (as Paul breathtakingly said to the Galatians ...) the "truth" has been hidden from you. Uh huh. Uh huh.

As long as our "digital" data lasts they won't stand a chance trying to prove or disprove why they prey to a spaghetti monster now or then...

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs The Jewish world was full of Messiahs, and the Romans executed a'plenty of 'em.

The Roman Empire didn't even exist in the days of the Old Testament, which is what the preface you quoted was addressing (Hebrew names for God, not Greek). Come on, show a little honesty here. You *KNOW* the reverence they had for the One True God - they would not even speak His name. Or perhaps you don't, because all of your information so far suggests that you have little knowledge of ancient history outside modern, evolution-driven, liberal conspiracy theory.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs As far as "-ites" go, it's really difficult to trace where the descendants of a particular people wound up. But many people in South and Central America would be very quick to tell you that, say, the Mayans did not disappear at all. If you look at their faces, you see that what they're saying is true. The cultures of early Biblical times were mostly nomadic, and deserts are very difficult places to live.

Is it difficult to trace Jewish descendency? You are proving my point, once again. I strongly suggest you watch the two videos I linked to a few posts ago. Everyone traces back eventually to the same point, through various cultures, but the Jews were SEPARATED and PRESERVED.

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs Deserts are also very contradictory to the maintenance of good archeological record, especially when most people can neither read nor write. Not many archives were created, that we know of, and it might be better to describe "the Dead Sea Scrolls" as "the Dead Sea Confetti."

Deserts are the PRIME environment for preservation due to the arid atmosphere, and especially caves that are protected from wind erosion. You are postulating from the top of your head, not science. Due to the age of the documents, it's a miracle that anything survived at all - even the fragments would not have been preserved in any other environment, yet they are complete enough to reconstruct the entirety of the Bible, save one book (and we haven't finished looking at all the fragments to this day).

Originally Posted by sundialsvcs If you look for "proof" that a particular Book is: "Inspired. Absolute. Final™," then you will surely find just what you are looking for, to your own satisfaction. Yup, the answers to all the world's questions, right there in sixty-six books, and if one doesn't believe it (as Paul breathtakingly said to the Galatians ...) the "truth" has been hidden from you. Uh huh. Uh huh.

There's a big difference between "proof" and "strong evidence". Further, as I said earlier, I didn't NEED any evidence - I already trusted it to be true - but I FOUND all the evidence later (or rather, discovered the abundance that others had found and continue to find). You seem to imply that this evidence is what I used to "convince myself". You are profoundly mistaken if that's the case.

Also, Paul said no such thing to the Galatians. He said, in a different letter to the Corinthians, that things which were previously hidden have now been revealed - that is certainly and clearly not the same message you seem to be implying.

Subconscious )evolving( thoughts: same as fairy tails, we need bad guys to be the good guys..!

I've been reading some of the earliest posts to this thread, and decided to contribute some of my thoughts.
I'm an atheist, and try to live my life without causing offence to others, whilst treating them with consideration. I don't care what religion or beliefs anyone has, as long as they don't attempt to force them on me, and treat me as I behave towards them.
I get very irate with those Christians that claim the moral high ground, as if no-one else knows how to behave; all too often they're the biggest hypocrites and the most uncharitable people.

Originally Posted by Celtic Yokel I've been reading some of the earliest posts to this thread, and decided to contribute some of my thoughts. I'm an atheist, and try to live my life without causing offence to others, whilst treating them with consideration. I don't care what religion or beliefs anyone has, as long as they don't attempt to force them on me, and treat me as I behave towards them. I get very irate with those Christians that claim the moral high ground, as if no-one else knows how to behave; all too often they're the biggest hypocrites and the most uncharitable people.

I understand your point of view, as I was once an atheist also. I, too, pushed the tired old cliches out when it came to dealing with Christians.

First, nobody is trying to "force their beliefs on you" or "shove them down your throat". They are trying to SAVE you from an eternity in Hell. If you think about it rationally for a moment, whether you believe in God or not, their MOTIVE is a good one. If you see someone walking into a burning building, do you leave them alone because you don't want to offend?

Second, can you give me an example of an encounter where a Christian "claimed the moral high ground"? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Third, I agree that there are many hypocrites. In fact, if you think about it, we all are, you and me included. An example: You think it's wrong for Christians to share their faith with you. So, all of a sudden, your "morality" is more important and more correct than "theirs", and you are now telling us that (in so many words). Hypocritical? You have just committed the very same infraction that you spoke of.

Originally Posted by OregonJim First, nobody is trying to "force their beliefs on you" or "shove them down your throat". They are trying to SAVE you from an eternity in Hell.

Didn't ask to be saved. I consider it quite rude of someone to claim benign innocence under the guise that they are just telling their personal story, as if I had asked for it. I haven't.

Originally Posted by OregonJim You think it's wrong for Christians to share their faith with you. So, all of a sudden, your "morality" is more important and more correct than "theirs", and you are now telling us that (in so many words). Hypocritical? You have just committed the very same infraction that you spoke of.

I do think it's wrong. I know some very devout Jews and they do not share their faith, proactively. I have asked and they've shared. A coworker celebrating Ramadan sent informative text about it in an all company email. Came to notice that their signature changed, including "instructive" information about their religion. Nice guy and all, and honestly he never raised religion in conversation, but the passive manner of including it in his email was to me, very unprofessional. I don't believe I have, or if I have shared, I've done it sparingly. The reason is that I feel that my beliefs are my own and they are largely no one else's business. So I do think that it is rude and passively aggressive for someone to project their beliefs to me when I don't ask.

Originally Posted by rtmistler So I do think that it is rude and passively aggressive for someone to project their beliefs to me when I don't ask.

Of course you think it rude, because you are hostile toward it. Do you object when someone shares stories of their weekend activities with you? How about their belief in the latest scientific theory? How about their faith in what the weather will be like next week? No, because you are not offended. When it comes to religion, the passive-agressive nature is in YOU, not them.

You are standing in the street. A truck is coming (representing Hell). There are three possibilites:

1. A Christian sees the truck and pushes you out of the way, saving your life.

2. An atheist doesn't see the truck, leaves you alone, and you die.

3. There is no truck.


Which of these has the potential for most good? Most harm?

A person from your faith can push people into burning trucks and get forgiveness is that moral?

Originally Posted by jamison20000e A person from your faith can push people into burning trucks and get forgiveness is that moral?

No, it's not. Whovever said it was? You're making a straw man argument.

I went thru confession... tho who needs it with "original sin!"

LOl I do realize that I can be difficult and stringent with rules of evidence, but I can be swayed... happens with some regularity. However the last several pages have schooled me. These evangelical types, like OregonJim, are completely intractable and won't give even a fraction of an inch and spin everything around to suit their point of view all the while claiming the Human/Tom Cat dynamic "We are cutting off your testicles because you will be happier". Thank you... I had forgotten that zealots can be so sanctimonious, smug and manipulative.

The turtles would obviously topple over if we'd look down... lala

Originally Posted by OregonJim You are standing in the street. A truck is coming (representing Hell). There are three possibilites: 1. A Christian sees the truck and pushes you out of the way, saving your life. 2. An atheist doesn't see the truck, leaves you alone, and you die. 3. There is no truck.

4. There is no truck, and you are pushed into a car coming the other way that the Christian didn't see.