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View Poll Results: Do you want a Linux with an Interview Style Install and Setup?
I'm a newbie/novice and Yes, I love that idea. thats just what Linux needs. 906 53.83%
I'm an occassional user, I don't care either way. 222 13.19%
I'm an experience/hardcore user and I don't need it to be any easier. I am happy with it the way it is. 555 32.98%
Voters: 1683. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-16-2003, 01:25 AM   #616
xode
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Registered: Aug 2003
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Quote:
From firefightin4fun

okay. i am not sure i have a place getting into this discussion but I am newly switched over to linux.
By all means, join the fun.

Quote:
From firefightin4fun

I just want to know ALL the features that make linux more powerful then windows for and end user who just wants to screw around and learn new things.
(1) Linux doesn't cost; Windows does in both funds and, with its later versions, privacy.

(2) Linux is far more robust than Windows. You can lock up any Windows 95, Windows 98 or Windows ME computer simply by opening up MSDOS prompt, running debug and executing the following machine code instructions: CLI (disable interrupts) and HLT (halt). Linux will survive such a trick with flying colors. Windows 2000 and Windows XP will survive that trick but, then again, they have tons of other security holes... and I have seen Windows XP really get its paging file confused when its working drive is different than its boot drive.

Quote:
From firefightin4fun

They say the power is in the command line but i'm just not understanding that part of it yet. I mean i know windows command line but thats it really.
The basics of the two command lines are not that different. The Windows command line is MSDOS, plain and simple. MSDOS, in turn, is a watered down (and quicker to understand) derivative of UNIX. UNIX, in turn, is the ancestor, and command line, for Linux. As for power, like Windows, the Linux GUI is beginning to take on and allow you to do things that you would previously do using the command line. Beyond the basics is where it all gets murky, including for me. I muddle through as best as I can.
 
Old 11-16-2003, 08:37 AM   #617
Sargek
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Registered: Jan 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Distribution: Debian testing
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Re: Make Linux easier for the general population! Please.

Quote:
Originally posted by Paul Parr
Why are things that should be so simple, so complicated on Linux...its times like this I find myself praing Window XP for its user friendlyness and no brainer installs.

I know the hard core Unix/Linux users want to keep it complicated to protect it, and keep ther skills in demand but its never going to make it mainstream and overtake M$ marketshare if it does not become a scaled back OS for dummies. Which all us newbies are. We have been brainwashed into the windows way of things that it makes converting to Linux very hard at times...

Don't get me wrong I think Linux has the potential to over take Windows, its does everything they can, I think its far more flexible, powerful, secure, the list goes on an on...but there has to be an easy starter linux for newbies with all the full blown power user options...I have wanted to migratate to Linux several times over the last few years...and I found my self always giving up and going back to the enemy, M$ Windows.

But I also find myself continually going back to test the Linux waters in hopes that this time it will meet my expectations as a Windows user. One thing is for sure because of the complex nature of Linux it painstakenly forces you to learn the thing in depth. Which I really don't care to become a Linux engineer, just a happy enduser. I don't want to spends hours everyday trying to solve problems or figure out complicated setup routines. I just want to install it, and use it. I want to spend my time enjoying the system, and being productive with my time. If I wanted to Learn how to become a Linux Engineer I would take a Red Hat certification coarse.

Maybe if one of the leading distributions adopted a interviewing style setup and configuring method it would really boost Linux past Windows and into the majoring or homes. (You know the way some of the Income tax service companies (ie. Quicktax) help you do your taxes on line for example, think about it if they can make doing takes a breeze then it can make using Linux a breeze too, just have to OS ask the user logical questions that branch out like surveys do.)

Make Linux easier by reinventing the way we interact with it.

**Together we can make a difference**

First, let me say everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm not slamming yours.
I disagree with your comment that Linux/Unix users want to keep it complicated to "protect" it and keep their skills in demand. All OS's are complex to a certain extent and the Linux community is not intentionally making Linux complicated for job security. Linux is from the Open Source world and therefore is developed by millions of different programmers contributing their work, for free. Windows is developed by a single company bent on one purpose and one purpose only: to make profits.

If you don't like Linux, don't use it. It is what it is. I don't like Windows, but I use it at work because I'm a Windows developer. In my opinion, Windows is the AOL of the OS world. Windows has it's place and so does Linux. For me, Windows is for playing games, and Linux is for doing everything else. Long live the penguin....



Paul
 
Old 11-16-2003, 08:38 AM   #618
qwijibow
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Registered: Apr 2003
Location: nottingham england
Distribution: Gentoo
Posts: 2,672

Rep: Reputation: 47
posted by icemncmth
Quote:
Oh...and I keep wondering about your 386 posts. I'm sure that you spent many a hour thinking and searching before you put you hand to keys. Oh..wait some more..you registered in April of 2003....386 post in 7 months..I bet they were all important!
why wandering... click search posts by qwijibow and read them, they are there if you want to read them !!!!
there is probably a word for poeple who have the evidence infron of them to make an accusation, but cant be bothered to read the evidence, just make the accusation anyway right ????? people like you annoy me.

so, go read all my posts, i think you will find most of my posts are helping other's making 380 whatever posts in 7 months or whatever making me a good member.

so... only 24 posts icemncmth ???
like you i dont think ill bother reading them, ill just assume they were all on this thread, arguing rather than helping people shall I.... and dont shout at me, im just using the same logic as you.... its quite an easy logic dont u think ???

and no, im not talking about wasting bandwidth, im talking about keeping the site organised, if there were only a few thread hits to the keywork nvidia, it would be much easyer to find your answer.

################################
anyway, i find myself becoming very bored with this argument, it started off as me saying, dont ask questions that have already been answered, and ended with posts like YOURS, which are nothing more than peosonal attacks, word twisting, and generally just people trying to case trouble
#################################

How do we get this thread to the attention of a mod and get it closed ? i see many people are making enemies and it needs to be lcosed for the good of those who are looking for help, rather than a fight.
so hurry up and twist my words so you can entertain yourself a little more before i leave this utterly boreing place.
 
Old 11-16-2003, 08:46 AM   #619
qwijibow
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Registered: Apr 2003
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Distribution: Gentoo
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OHHHH,, and..... Please READ THE FOLLOWING QUOTES......

posed by some member.
Quote:
OK I seem to have updated my KDE libs, by using a RPM. It worked OK.

Now, the ./configure stops at QT: I need 3.1+

I downloaded and installed it, but it installed to /usr/lib/qt-3.1 and not /usr/lib/qt3.1 so I don't think it detects it. I can pass the qt stuff to the ./configure in the command line, but it still wont work.

The config.log file lists the following files as missing.

qglobal.h
qapplication.h
qcursor.h
qstylefactory.h
private/qucomextra_p.h

I have manually searched in my directories and can not find these files whatsoever. How can I get them? I checked and I have both qt2 and qt3.1 installed.
posted by ME:
[quote[these are header files... from a devel package, possibly qa-devel-3.1 ???

goto google.com/linux, and search "privides qglabal.h"


or possibly rpmfind.net and search qglobal.h

have fun[/quote]

posted by member

Quote:
Thanks qwijibow, I didn't know I could do that.

I downloaded,
- libqt3-3.1.2-14mdk.i586.rpm
- libqt3-devel-3.1.2-14mdk.i586.rpm
- qt3-common-3.1.2-14mdk.i586.rpm

But I can't install them. Error message example:
OK,, the problem is not yet solved... BUT
instead of doing it for him, i told him how to solve package dependency's
he leanred a vital lesson in the world of linux, i was pollite when telling him,
no1 got upset, everyhting was fine.....

so, cummon, tell he how he was reealy deeply offended, and hurt inside, and wriggling on a hook, and how i was feelig sick pleasure from it and playing god (as anouther user told me i was)

anyway, goodbye.
 
Old 11-16-2003, 12:48 PM   #620
Tinkster
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Re: don't you think this post got abit off-subject?

Quote:
Originally posted by aesahaettr
Re: don't you think this post got abit off-subject?
Considering that Paul made it a thread "Make
Linux more like Windows" it was off topic from
the very start (together with a few other, similar
threads - quite trollish) - NO :} ...

Quote:
quoting Trickykid(Moderator)
1. If your post or new thread contains anything regarding Microsoft, it most likely belongs in General.

2. If your post has nothing to do with Linux at all and your fully aware of this, most likely it also belongs in General.

3. If your post is some sort of "Hey I got this working in Linux" type of thread, most likely it belongs in Member Success Stories.

4. If you post a thread that is going to start any type of debate, regular type discussion, and is not directly related to a Linux technical question, it belongs in General.

5. News stories that pertain only to Linux are welcome here but don't post news stories about SCO, Microsoft vs Linux and so on type news links, articles, etc.

6. If your asking a specific Distribution question, like the most popular "Which distro is best?", it should go in the Distributions forum. Or if you have a question regarding Redhat or Slackware, it may fit better in one of the specific Distribution forums we have. Currently we have them for LFS, Slackware, Debian, Arch, Connectiva, Mandrake and Redhat.

7. Do not post Linux vs. Microsoft type threads. We have several threads already covering that, either contribute to those or post it in General as these seem to slide off topic and belong in General.

8. This forum is mainly reserved to technical questions that you may have about your system, setup and so on that you don't think fits in any other category that starts with Linux in it on this site.
Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-16-2003, 01:58 PM   #621
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by xode
Actually, I would expect Italians to take the time to teach me how to speak Italian in a courteous manner. I would not expect them to be rude to me right off the bat with the implied assumption and demand that I automatically know Italian, which is what your RTFM/STFW nonsense is.
That's sad mate. Covering ones laziness
by claiming the others need to be curteous
is appaling. When I went to Italy I bought
a dictionary and a book of common phrases
before-hand and was well prepared.

Quote:
Phwat a dodge, and you know it. Why not just own up to it? You committed RTFM/STFW disrespect towards others and got called on it.
Look, repeating this doesn't make it any more true.
There's a pretty distinct line between a brutal RTFM
and a request to do your homework.

Quote:
Have you perhaps considered (if only for a microsecond) that "setting the standard" might be better accomplished by courteous and informative replies, even if they happen to be simple pointers to questions that have already been answered or to documentation that you already know about? Regarding courtesy and respect towards others, there is definitely a standard and it did not come from either me or ricdave.
You wouldn't believe how much I think about the like.
And what about the courtesy of taking the first step and
preparing yourself, I mean, the person who comes to
this board is, so to speak, a visitor in a strangers house.
I think that popping in without even having read
the rules, or the sticky threads that live at the top of more
or less every single forum is impudent. And I don't think
that the fact that one knows didly squat excuses for the
lack of will to learn.

Quote:
Actually, given your response to my last post in this thread and your continued arguments here to try to "justify" RTFM/STFW behavior, it would appear that joe83's assertion might be very much on target.
There he goes again. Trying to nail me
down to the image of a simply abusive
hot-head is not going to work, and repeating
it four times in one post to me only shows
that you're running out of real reason.

Quote:
You are trying to claim the "right" to be able to disrespect others whenever they post "stupid" (in your mind) or "not well thought out" (again in your mind) questions. On the other hand, me and ricdave are arguing for courteous and informative responses to all questions, even if they happen to be simple pointers to questions that have already been answered or to documentation that you already know about? Considering that Linux Questions states that it is a forum where newbies come for help, the position that me and ricdave have taken makes infinitely more sense than yours.
There he goes again... I'm not disrespecting
people, I'm disrespecting an attitude.

How many people do you think actually do read
the rules when they sign up? How many read the
first center paragraph

Quote:
LinuxQuestions.org
Welcome to LinuxQuestions.org. You can visit our forum where Linux newbies can ask questions and Linux experts can offer advice. Topics include security, installation, networking and much more. Feel free to browse the board, perform a search, view the man pages online or view the index. If you would like to post you must be a member. We also have a new archive online.
I think that Jeremy was being rather curteous there,
unfortunately, because a polite person would feel
obliged to actually follow the advice to "feel free
to browse the board, perform a search" (which
actually are links). The vast majority seems to
ignore this, and this is rightfully pissing me of.
In Linux-Newbie there's a "sticky thread" on nVidia
problems, none the less there's several new
nVidia threads every day. And you keep
telling me I'm rude? Get a life, mate, and open
your eyes to what's happening.

Quote:
Your metaphor still fails, again, because this is a public forum, not yours or my personal board, and you still don't have to respond (wow^2!). By the way, if I saw:
And does public mean that every single
person is meant to say the same thing?
Think of the "search" and the "sticky threads"
as of sign-posts with information on an
Airport. How well, do you think, the staff
at the airport would cope if no one read
the present information but rather queue
up, ask questions and become rather grumpy
because it's taking time to get an answer
or because they become afraid to run out
of time?

Quote:
... I would respond to that with a courteous and as informative a reply as I could. Maybe you can turn over a new leaf by pointing me to where you saw that posting (or am I supposed to "automatically know" or "find out" where that posting is).
Use the search,, young Jedi.


Cheers,
Tink

Last edited by Tinkster; 11-16-2003 at 02:01 PM.
 
Old 11-16-2003, 02:00 PM   #622
ricdave
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 222

Rep: Reputation: 31
<<< Cheers,
Tink >>>

Might be time to consider the possibility, however remote, that we may be getting a little over exercised to no really good purpose. I am going to take a chill pill and move on.
 
Old 11-16-2003, 02:21 PM   #623
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by icemncmth
basically what you are complaining about is the wasting of time and bandwidth. Or clogging up the server with questions that have been asked over and over......well....you have done the same thing because you are using up the bandwidth trying to win over your point of view!
No, he hasn't. He didn't start a few new threads
for that, but rather kept this "wooly mammoth"
going which makes a big difference.

I don't think that the bandwidth is that much
of an issue, btw, but the clutter on the boards
sure is. The sad thing is, the more poeple
start a new thread with similar topics, the less
usable the search feature is becoming because
people easily feel overwhelmed by 1600 hits
to their search.

Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-16-2003, 02:31 PM   #624
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by icemncmth
Oh...and I keep wondering about your 386 posts. I'm sure that you spent many a hour thinking and searching before you put you hand to keys. Oh..wait some more..you registered in April of 2003....386 post in 7 months..I bet they were all important!
Ummm ... a post isn't necessarily a question,
but may as well be a helpful response?

Quote:
That's what I get when I come to Linux-Newbie.
Tinkster, you have made a total of 629 posts in this forum. (2 threads and 627 replies)
Quote:
Linux-Software
Tinkster, you have made a total of 720 posts in this forum. (14 threads and 706 replies)
You're getting the idea? :)

Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-16-2003, 03:23 PM   #625
ricdave
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Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 222

Rep: Reputation: 31
<<< The vast majority seems to
ignore this, and this is rightfully pissing me of. >>>

When all of the world is out of step with what you know to be right and correct, it may be time to take a deep breath, open your hands, and just...let it go.
 
Old 11-16-2003, 03:35 PM   #626
Tinkster
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Quote:
Originally posted by ricdave
<<< The vast majority seems to ignore this,
and this is rightfully pissing me of. >>>

When all of the world is out of step with what you know to be right and correct, it may be time to take a deep breath, open your hands, and just...let it go.
It's not all of the world mate, just users who
come here ;) ... and if all of the world went
the wrong way I'd still be stubborn and stick
to my idea of what's right and what's wrong
until someone can prove me to be wrong.


Quote:
Might be time to consider the possibility, however remote, that we may be getting a little over exercised to no really good purpose. I am going to take a chill pill and move on.
What happened to this? :)


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-16-2003, 03:53 PM   #627
ricdave
Member
 
Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 222

Rep: Reputation: 31
<<< and if all of the world went
the wrong way I'd still be stubborn and stick
to my idea >>>

Absolute, final post to this thread. Go Don Quixote, go Don Quixote, go Don Quixote.
 
Old 11-16-2003, 04:30 PM   #628
Tinkster
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/me grabs Rozinante's reins, jumps in the saddle and rides towards the setting sun...


Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 11-16-2003, 04:36 PM   #629
bigozs
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Nov 2003
Posts: 3

Rep: Reputation: 0
There are people listening to folks like yourself and they're working on solutions to help you enter linux more easily.

If you are adventurous you may want to try a rather young project, a distribution called Ark Linux which is targeted at linux newcommers with no previous experience with linux.

BE WARNED THOUGH, this distribution is still in alpha stage, which means that it's in development and it's not intended for end users, so installation problems etc. do happen on some occasions, Still many find it very stable even for an alpha release and use it on a daily basis.

here's the URL : www.arklinux.org

have fun
 
Old 11-16-2003, 04:49 PM   #630
xode
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bigozs,

Now would be an excellent time to make sure that the documentation for ArkLinux stays in step with the software as it develops, and to whip it into shape if need be. Do you happen to be in communication with those who are developing ArkLinux?
 
  


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