LinuxQuestions.org
Visit Jeremy's Blog.
Home Forums Tutorials Articles Register
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 10-06-2022, 03:34 PM   #1
jmgibson1981
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2015
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 1,144

Rep: Reputation: 392Reputation: 392Reputation: 392Reputation: 392
I'm Flatpakin now! A personal experiment.


I've cleaned my Debian installation as much as possible. I've removed the task-gnome-desktop along with everything I don't want, just whatever the core system + gnome-core and a few utilities. All of my regularly used stuff is now via Flatpak. Gotta move sometime. I like the idea that I get the newest versions + the stability of the Debian base underneath.
 
Old 10-06-2022, 03:44 PM   #2
rkelsen
Senior Member
 
Registered: Sep 2004
Distribution: slackware
Posts: 4,462
Blog Entries: 7

Rep: Reputation: 2561Reputation: 2561Reputation: 2561Reputation: 2561Reputation: 2561Reputation: 2561Reputation: 2561Reputation: 2561Reputation: 2561Reputation: 2561Reputation: 2561
I'm Flatpakin now! A personal experiment.

Nothing wrong with that. Flatpak, AppImage, containers all get a gig here. With CPU & RAM where they are these days, there is no noticeable impact on performance. Just drop them in and they run. Too easy.
 
Old 10-07-2022, 05:17 AM   #3
hazel
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: LFS, AntiX, Slackware
Posts: 7,614
Blog Entries: 19

Rep: Reputation: 4460Reputation: 4460Reputation: 4460Reputation: 4460Reputation: 4460Reputation: 4460Reputation: 4460Reputation: 4460Reputation: 4460Reputation: 4460Reputation: 4460
I still don't like it on principle. It feels Windowsy somehow.
 
Old 10-07-2022, 05:35 AM   #4
Turbocapitalist
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Apr 2005
Distribution: Linux Mint, Devuan, OpenBSD
Posts: 7,330
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 3726Reputation: 3726Reputation: 3726Reputation: 3726Reputation: 3726Reputation: 3726Reputation: 3726Reputation: 3726Reputation: 3726Reputation: 3726Reputation: 3726
I'd add that the reasons for it looking and feeling Windowsy are many.

First, there is the bloated size due to all the static linking thus hogging space on the SSD or HD. Another is vastly increased RAM usage, something which also slows down startup for each program in addition to hogging RAM. Third, their sandboxing doesn't really work in practice like it is theoretically claimed to work, doing an end-run around security instead especially in light of permission exceptions during installation. Fourth, but perhaps first in importance, is that it is much more complex that APT, and complexity is anathema to security and ease of maintenance. Fifth, it does not allow for dependencies brought in from the system's own packaging. On top of all that, it also looks and feels like a trojan for proprietary software and drivers. At least that is what it appears to be designed around. I'll stop there, for now.

I reckon whether it is suitable for anything on my part is whether its goals match mine, and I though I have not seen the written goals for Flatpak I can take a guess.

No thanks. Hard pass.
 
Old 10-16-2022, 01:48 PM   #5
jayjwa
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2003
Location: NY
Distribution: Slackware, Termux
Posts: 787

Rep: Reputation: 250Reputation: 250Reputation: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkelsen View Post
AppImage...
I use AppImage for the stuff that doesn't come in my distro and would be a pain to build. Right now I'm using Librewolf as an AppImage. If I build it, and something changes in the OS after an update, it might break. AppImage is convenient, but it comes at the price of being wasteful. If I leave this browser open, and start a project under Inkscape (also AppImage), I'll hit the memory limit of the machine since there's other stuff running as well.
 
Old 10-21-2022, 12:13 PM   #6
jmgibson1981
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2015
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Distribution: Debian
Posts: 1,144

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 392Reputation: 392Reputation: 392Reputation: 392
So so far I've had to switch both Firefox and Thunderbird back to repo based.

Firefox had some strange stuff about certain things not working, couldn't add a file to Google drive. Couldn't right click and save images, random stuff. Repo works just fine. Thunderbird I changed because it was a bit of a problem adding my gpg key.

Such is life

Last edited by jmgibson1981; 10-21-2022 at 12:51 PM.
 
Old 11-30-2022, 10:59 AM   #7
dugan
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Canada
Distribution: distro hopper
Posts: 11,241

Rep: Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322
I've ordered a Steam Deck, and on that, you're supposed to install everything via Flatpak. We'll see how that goes.
 
Old 11-30-2022, 06:20 PM   #8
Timothy Miller
Moderator
 
Registered: Feb 2003
Location: Arizona, USA
Distribution: Debian, EndeavourOS, OpenSUSE, KDE Neon
Posts: 4,006
Blog Entries: 26

Rep: Reputation: 1522Reputation: 1522Reputation: 1522Reputation: 1522Reputation: 1522Reputation: 1522Reputation: 1522Reputation: 1522Reputation: 1522Reputation: 1522Reputation: 1522
Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
I've ordered a Steam Deck, and on that, you're supposed to install everything via Flatpak. We'll see how that goes.
A gaming device that they want you to install things via a way that takes more space? That's a very poor stance to push for that. It's already too small an SSD for more than a few games, and if you install anything then they want you to install versions that take up even MORE space so you get to install even FEWER games.
 
Old 12-02-2022, 04:32 PM   #9
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 4,787

Rep: Reputation: 4435Reputation: 4435Reputation: 4435Reputation: 4435Reputation: 4435Reputation: 4435Reputation: 4435Reputation: 4435Reputation: 4435Reputation: 4435Reputation: 4435
One major difference between Flatpaks, Appimages etc., at least initially, between Windowsy stuff and Linux is as Linus Torvalds sadly pointed out, they are a kind of "necessary evil" caused by some major differences in distros not the least of which is systemd and distro-unique package managers. Windows is basically monolithic while Linux is vastly more diverse. So far with the few I've tried, Appimage has been OK but I've had problems with Flatpak apps even on mainstream distros like OpenSuse. Even though my Main, Slackware, has Flatpak installer available on Slackbuilds.org, for example OBS Studio has no flatpak for Slackware. It does for OpenSuse which is why I tried it there and although it installed, it doesn't run, sort of defeating the design goals right from the jump, no?. OTOH the Appimage for Balena-Etcher, an excellent USB "image burner" app, runs without a hitch and is far better than anything similar even those I've built from source.

It seems to me there are workarounds for size on almost all devices, so I don't care about that if that cost improves my benefits of functionality.... as long as they don't become the exact opposite of what they were designed to do and become yet another force to unify Linux by eliminating diversity and choice.

Frankly I miss the easy days of "Checkinstall" that built distro-specific packages from source.

Last edited by enorbet; 12-02-2022 at 04:34 PM.
 
Old 12-02-2022, 05:05 PM   #10
dugan
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Canada
Distribution: distro hopper
Posts: 11,241

Rep: Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322Reputation: 5322
Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Frankly I miss the easy days of "Checkinstall" that built distro-specific packages from source.
GCC is the least stable platform I know of. It breaks backwards compatibility constantly.
 
Old 12-02-2022, 09:58 PM   #11
rclark
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2008
Location: Montana USA
Distribution: KUbuntu, Fedora (KDE), PI OS
Posts: 490

Rep: Reputation: 182Reputation: 182
I've not used flatpack, but do use Appimage. FreeCad and Inkscape now come this way. Works fine on my systems. Not enough disk space isn't an excuse as terabytes of disk space is relatively cheap any more. Memory too. All my desktops/laptops have at least 16GB (my minimum). My workstation has 64GB. So memory isn't an issue either. Should flatpacks/appimages/snap/etc. be used for 'everything'? No. But for big complex projects I can see where it could be very nice as you include known working dependencies with your project.
 
  


Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LXer: Mozilla's Firefox Nightly Experiment Results, EFF's Back to School Tips, HHVM 3.28 Released, Oracle Solaris 11.4 Now Available and Dro LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 08-30-2018 03:44 AM
LXer: LibreOffice 6.1 Now Available, Facebook Open-Sourcing Fizz, Firefox Advance Is Latest Test Pilot Experiment, Dart 2.0 Stable Released LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 08-09-2018 01:20 AM
LXer: Putting the Personal Back in Personal Computing LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 10-06-2016 07:41 PM
traffic control experiment bruj3w Linux - Networking 5 12-15-2007 03:44 AM
The Great SuSE Experiment and my findings (long and opinionistic) cav Linux - Distributions 21 09-11-2003 04:32 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:33 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration