Because Shiny Things Are Fun - The New New Windows v Linux Thread

How about this, you install an Operating System from almost 10 years ago and still demand support from a company like Microsoft? Yea right. Legally they don't have to and business wise they don't want to. I can understand that Vista was a bunch of crap (just because I'm happy with it and haven't seen the problems reported doesn't mean they don't exist.) and I can see you not upgrading your office to Vista. But once 7 came out and since XP hasn't been touched forever, it's time to upgrade. It's not about technological advancement or anything anymore, it's about support. If your entire office goes down (heaven forbid) and you use XP and call MS stating your problem, they will say "Upgrade to 7, XP has been deprecated." and they will hang up. That's why people need to upgrade to 7. Granted, it's NOT as good as Linux, but for some the Windows Platform is a necessity. I can't seem to get rid of it because I don't see about 75% of my applications running in Linux natively or well enough in Wine to be rid of Windows. (And even then, Wine is just the Windows API on Linux so I never am rid of it.) There are great applications in Linux and I do all of my coding (except Android coding) in Linux. I design 3D graphics in Linux, do Inkscape in Linux, use Code::Blocks in Linux, Firefox, etc. However I can't use OpenOffice/LibreOffice for my college reports because I can NEVER seem to get the formatting right. (I know there's a way, but when you're full time college and full time work you don't have time.) So I must use MS Office. The Gimp is great software, however I would rather use Photoshop for my raster imaging. CS4 doesn't like to work in Wine so I must use Windows. I have an iPod Touch 4G and in order to even TURN IT ON, I must connect it to iTunes through Mac/Windows. There are a lot of great things that Microsoft has done for computing, and there are a lot of things that Linux has done. Why can't they just live in harmony? Why can't we just get along? Microsoft releases new OSes every 5 or so years, (with the exception of when they release total CRAP then they try to push that OS out *cough* Vista to 7 *cough*) and thus they must keep up with supporting businesses with their current version. If you are 2 versions behind, you need to suck it up and upgrade.

And another note, if someone posted on here asking for help and they said they used kernel 2.4.0 (released in 2001, same year as XP) and came saying that they needed help with hardware, first thing people would say is "Holy crap!! Why are you still using that kernel? At least upgrade to 2.6.35.10 and we'll go from there." I don't doubt that for a second in my mind. Why? Because it's OUT DATED. Just like Windows XP. Point proven?

Originally Posted by soppy The Gimp is great software, however I would rather use Photoshop for my raster imaging.

I've always wondered (since I never used Photoshop) how it it better than GIMP? Is it the interface or the functionality?

If it's the interface, why don't they redesign it? Seems like it would be a great improvement and would make it more popular.

Originally Posted by soppy There are a lot of great things that Microsoft has done for computing, and there are a lot of things that Linux has done. Why can't they just live in harmony? Why can't we just get along?

Because of severely clashing philosophies.

Originally Posted by MTK358 I've always wondered (since I never used Photoshop) how it it better than GIMP? Is it the interface or the functionality? If it's the interface, why don't they redesign it? Seems like it would be a great improvement and would make it more popular. Because of severely clashing philosophies.

Most Linux distros are rolling release, which means they are automatically up-to-date even if you installed them 10 years ago. That being with the exception of a small minority (like Ubuntu). Microsoft in contrast *forces* you to buy new even if your OS is outdated. Just like renewing a "lease" on your computer, you are *required* to give Microsoft more greed-fuel.

Then, that's the beginning of another two to five long years of Microsoft treating you like a slave, forcing you to agree to an EULA telling you what you can and can't do with your computer. Just more avarice-fuel, just there to prey on the misfortune of others.

So now your argument of Bill Gates being as humanitarian as he was? Not so fast: He doesn't CEO for Microsoft anymore. Steve Ballmer does, that greedy good-for-nothing dictator who is only money- and power-hungry, a robber-baron at his ultimate best.

Originally Posted by MTK358 I've always wondered (since I never used Photoshop) how it it better than GIMP? Is it the interface or the functionality? If it's the interface, why don't they redesign it? Seems like it would be a great improvement and would make it more popular.

For one it can handle more colors (not really a big deal for me since I don't do professional photography). But I generally find it easier to use. I do use the GIMP for simple alterations and/or simple graphics if I feel like I can do it in GIMP, but when it comes to the "heavy lifting" Photoshop just gives me more options. I love the way that I can change blending modes and effects in one easy to use dialog box and can change all the effects in real-time (if I apply a shadow and an outline and they conflict I can edit the effect without having to undo and re-apply the effect as I do in GIMP). I can do (almost) everything I do in Photoshop in the GIMP, however it takes me about twice as long. There are others that prefer GIMP over Photoshop and over time I feel like I could to, but I don't feel the need yet to knock Photoshop out of my life since I payed $499 for CS4. Another benefit of Photoshop is that it directly uses my GPU while the GIMP does all of it's calculations on the CPU thus it's a bit faster when processing larger images and doing more effects.

I've heard rumors that the GIMP is getting a complete redesign of the UI, but after almost no updates on the latest Alpha version (2.7) I'm starting to lose hope. :/

Originally Posted by MTK358 Because of severely clashing philosophies.

Yea I know. But I still think that we should just leave well-enough alone. Obviously we try not to use Windows and don't agree with MS 100% (or not at all), so what's the point in arguing about it or even discussing why Windows sucks? We can't do anything about Microsoft, all we can do is support our great system the best we can and spread the word to others about a virus free operating system that is guaranteed to work on your computer for FREE!!! If all of us stop worrying about how Microsoft is dumbing computers down and start spreading the word about Linux/BSD, we should be able to convert lots of people here in the United States (Especially with the economic crisis we're in, free and virus free are 2 great words when it comes to computers) because a lot of the computer users only access the internet, check e-mail, play certain games and/or watch YouTube. I've already got the YMCA that I work at to consider switching over from MS Servers to Slackware-based servers because we had someone hack their account to get a free membership. Showing people what Linux can do is the best thing we can do. So stop worrying about Microsoft and get out there and promote Linux to users!!!

Originally Posted by Kenny_Strawn Most Linux distros are rolling release, which means they are automatically up-to-date even if you installed them 10 years ago. That being with the exception of a small minority (like Ubuntu). Microsoft in contrast *forces* you to buy new even if your OS is outdated. Just like renewing a "lease" on your computer, you are *required* to give Microsoft more greed-fuel. Then, that's the beginning of another two to five long years of Microsoft treating you like a slave, forcing you to agree to an EULA telling you what you can and can't do with your computer. Just more avarice-fuel, just there to prey on the misfortune of others.

Just because it's rolling release doesn't mean that it updates automatically, and not a lot of distros follow that model (Arch, Debian Mint, Debian (kind of), and certainly others, those are just the prevalent ones). Most are on a designated schedule (Mint, Ubuntu, Fedora, Vector, Mepis, Debian, etc.) and some are on a "We'll release when ready" (Slackware, Debian, Puppy, etc.). My friend still has Slackware 11.0 on his desktop and he says that he doesn't want to go through the hassle of updating because everything works. I told him one of these days I'm going to update it for him when he isn't looking but that's besides the case. xD

And Microsoft doesn't force you to update. When have they ever forced you to update? If you go out and buy a new computer, chances are you want the latest and greatest. No one that I know of goes out to buy a mediocre and out dated computer for everyday use (unless they're upgrading it themselves but that's besides the point.) So yes, you are getting the latest version and yes you must agree to their terms. But you must also agree to the GPLv.X to use Linux so you are never free of licenses(yet the GPL isn't as bad as Microsoft's by a long shot, and I've read them both). And Microsoft still has support for XP in their software. The only things so far that aren't supported on XP (that I know of) are newer games and the latest Internet Explorer. Other than that MS Office 2010 supports XP SP3 which is a FREE UPDATE if you have XP. So where are you getting that they force you to upgrade?

And Microsoft keeps up with the technology of the time(kind of). What was expensive 5 years ago is dirt cheap now (I'M TALKING TO YOU TB HARD DRIVES!!! ) thus it MAKES SENSE that the newest versions of Windows require newer hardware. Sure there's nothing wrong with a 5 year old computer, but if you want the latest and greatest, you need to upgrade. It's just that in Linux you have a choice to turn off the extra bloat (3D, indexing and whatnot) that lets it run on older machines.

And since when did Microsoft tell me I can't do something with my computer and since when did they treat me like a slave?

I fear I'll be e-shot, but oh well. I used Win7 for three months or so, as it was pre-installed on my then-new laptop and I wanted to give it a fair assessment.
I actually was more or less pleased with Windows 7. It worked pretty well and I never once had any problems with crashing or malware.

Once it started slowing down, though, I just cleared my hard drive and started again -- except with Linux.
Compared to the terrible monstrosity that was Vista (when it was first released), Windows 7 was pretty stable and attractive. I feel like I'm a minority in that I feel no animosity towards Windows or its users. I simply find Linux to be the superior operating system.
I use what I like, and I like stability and security.

As for previous comments on this thread: Not all Windows fans are trolls, they're more probably just someone with a different preference. Though why they'd be on a Linux forum beats me, unless they're dual-booting.

Edit: Am I the only one who finds it annoying how a lot of Linux users insist on spelling Windows incorrectly? It always has to be Windoze or Window$ or something. We get the point.
@MTK358: Possibly some bad wording here on my part, sometimes the intended meaning doesn't pick up in text form. I was saying how some Linux users refuse to spell it correctly (Windows), and instead opt for intentional misspellings like Windoze, or replacing letters with currency symbols. The "We get the point" part meant that most of us understand that Windows is greedy, and it's really not necessary to continually shove it down our throats without really offering a reasoned contribution to the discussion. Hope that cleared it up, apologies for the mix-up.

Originally Posted by Weasel War Dance I fear I'll be e-shot, but oh well. I used Win7 for three months or so, as it was pre-installed on my then-new laptop and I wanted to give it a fair assessment. I actually was more or less pleased with Windows 7. It worked pretty well and I never once had any problems with crashing or malware. Once it started slowing down, though, I just cleared my hard drive and started again -- except with Linux. Compared to the terrible monstrosity that was Vista (when it was first released), Windows 7 was pretty stable and attractive. I feel like I'm a minority in that I feel no animosity towards Windows or its users. I simply find Linux to be the superior operating system. I use what I like, and I like stability and security.

I agree, Windows 7 was very good compared to Vista.

And the reason I dislike Windows is mostly about licensing and business practice, not so much about the quality of their software.

Edit: Am I the only one who finds it annoying how a lot of Linux users insist on spelling Windows incorrectly? It always has to be Windoze or Window$ or something. We get the point.

Really annoying, but it's not as bad as it was a few months back...

Just goto a windows forum and what sort of silly questions they ask.

They have to keep getting rid of spyware, viruses etc.

A lot of them have to boot a Linux live cd to fix their windows systems. I don't think there is such a thing as a windows live cd.

Originally Posted by nigelc A lot of them have to boot a Linux live cd to fix their windows systems. I don't think there is such a thing as a windows live cd.

There is. It's a hacked version of Windows and illegal to obtain (torrents). But that would be a waste to use.

Originally Posted by MTK358 I agree, Windows 7 was very good compared to Vista. And the reason I dislike Windows is mostly about licensing and business practice, not so much about the quality of their software.

Same here. The software quality is pretty good, but it's the barriers to entry, vendor lock-ins, and use of software "features" to police end users around that are the real problems. Apple is similar, but they do the same thing at the hardware level, for example deliberately killing Intel Atom processors with minor Mac OS X updates. Also, try to update the software on a jailbroken iPhone and get an unbootable device. In my opinion it's tactics like these that determine whether a corporation is legit or Nazist/Fascist.

Originally Posted by Weasel War Dance Am I the only one who finds it annoying how a lot of Linux users insist on spelling Windows incorrectly? It always has to be Windoze or Window$ or something.

Yeah, it's especially annoying when people combine misspellings (e.g. "Winbloze", "Winblow$", etc.) because they just don't even make sense anymore.

Originally Posted by Kenny_Strawn Couldn't agree more. Microsoft just doesn't know the difference between a good and a service and is trying to push upgrades every 1.5 or so years as a way to try and turn a PC into some service done for a fee instead of a good which it really is. The disclaimer is that Microsoft through the OS is trying to make you pay rent on your PC instead of own it. The "rent" is the cost of the OS + planned obsolescence, and the lease contract is the EULA. By using Linux, you make sure you own your computer instead of "renting" it from Microsoft.

Well-said! Sadly, most people today don't seem to care about the durability of what they buy or if buying something will obligate them to a long-term commitment of fees or restrictions; or force them to be locked into a particular brand. Doesn't seem to matter whether we're talking computers or cars or cell phones.......many seem to just want "the latest and greatest" and don't give any thought to what they are really getting nor to the financial ramifications. MS, Apple, GM and a plethora of others seem to make their fortunes catering to such people. Thank goodness in the computer world there is an alternative for people like you and I!

Originally Posted by Kenny_Strawn The problem, however, is that very few people even know that alternatives exist. I do know a few in my area (like one of my good friends from school), but the majority of those don't care. However, those that do actually listen to me. It's them that are my closest friends and really know that what they use pleases me. It also pleases them too just as much to know that Microsoft isn't the dictator in their lives. It's a real shame that so many more people don't really care that Microsoft is ruining their lives and watching their every move without them knowing it. Not even my teacher cares. Not even my classmates. None except for a privileged few actually give a rat's *** about what's on their computers, even if it is the very thing that's causing their problems!

I've actually had quite positive responses among my mostly computer-illiterate circle of friends and acquaintances. The usual response is surprise and delight at the fact that there is an alternative and that it is free and rather impervious to viruses. Although, it could just be because most people who know me, trust me implicitly and regard me as knowledgeable. I think, among most of the people I know, just avoiding the viruses would be the biggest advantage of Linux- as they are either constantly sending their computers out to be "fixed" or reformatting them due to viruses. (I don't know what their problem is...I used Win-D'ohs for 9 years without having problems with viruses and such....and never even ran AV)

Originally Posted by MTK358 I agree, Windows 7 was very good compared to Vista. And the reason I dislike Windows is mostly about licensing and business practice, not so much about the quality of their software.

I never tried 7, I was happy with my Vista, until I changed completely to Linux. I was dual-booting for gaming purposes, but Wine gets better and better, so no need for Vista anymore.

Originally Posted by soppy There is. It's a hacked version of Windows and illegal to obtain (torrents). But that would be a waste to use.

It is called WinPE, and it is not illegal, you can even make it yourself.

Originally Posted by Weasel War Dance Edit: Am I the only one who finds it annoying how a lot of Linux users insist on spelling Windows incorrectly? It always has to be Windoze or Window$ or something.

Yes, absolutely annoying.

Originally Posted by MTK358 And the reason I dislike Windows is mostly about licensing and business practice, not so much about the quality of their software.

I believe you hit it dead on MTK358. People who hate MS is mainly for their monopoly and their partial business practices. And who knows what MS is going to do with their new acquired Novell patents. Patent trolling perhaps.

Originally Posted by Weasel War Dance Edit: Am I the only one who finds it annoying how a lot of Linux users insist on spelling Windows incorrectly? It always has to be Windoze or Window$ or something. We get the point.

That depends on the individual. Misspelling of windows or MS don't bother me. Hell, even if Linux or any of the distros get misspelled intentionally; it won't bother me either.

I'm not that sensitive...

Keep in mind that these are just products. They have no souls or feelings.