Because Shiny Things Are Fun - The New New Windows v Linux Thread

Originally Posted by SigTerm Google search/question on a forum, duh.

No, I meant "if they are totally computer illiterate, aren't very interested in computers, and barely even know what an OS is, how will they find out about Linux?"

The person who I was replying to seemed to think that it's impossible that most people haven't heard of Linux.

Originally Posted by SigTerm IMO, you're mistaken here. Normal user doesn't know what operating system is. They don't know what OS they use and they don't care. People don't have to "know" about alternatives, but they should be able to find them if they need something different. If a user is happy with his machine, there's no need to change anything.

Then why do you disagree? That is what I said. I mentioned that most people think Linux is a program to install. They don't know that there is anything other than M$. You agree but didn't seem to realize you did. lol

To have a choice, you have to know there are other options. First thing they would have to know is what a OS is and that there is a alternative to M$. If they don't know what a OS is, then they won't know what Linux is either. That is why I mentioned that a LOT of people I know think it is a software package or something. I even had one that wanted to know if it would take the place of Norton. You can't expect people to make choices with little to no knowledge. M$ makes sure people stay in the dark.

Originally Posted by MTK358 No, I meant "if they are totally computer illiterate, aren't very interested in computers, and barely even know what an OS is, how will they find out about Linux?"

A reply on a forum or a recommendation from friend in response to computer-related question.

Originally Posted by dalek you have to know there are other options.

I don't think so. IMO, if you don't know something, then it probably means you didn't ever need that info. When you'll need the knowledge, you'll have to locate/learn the information anyway. The user shouldn't have to know what is OS, how it is called, and what are alternatives (people forget everything they aren't personally interested in, so forcing knowledge about computers upon everybody won't be efficient). However, it should be easy to locate that info if the user ever becomes unsatisfied with his current software setup or becomes interested in computer's internals.

Originally Posted by SigTerm I don't think so. The user shouldn't have to know what is OS, how it is called, and what are alternatives.

My cousin sister spends all her weekends in getting her Windows 7 loaded slow laptop fixed, but she's not willing to give Linux a try because all she knows about Linux is that it has got a black and white screen with some commands to type in!

If she would have been educated about the options she has, I think she would have considered a switch.

A reply on a forum or a recommendation from friend in response to computer-related question.

Theoretically, it's possible, but unfortunately highly unlikely. MS ads are everywhere. People who aren't generally interested in computers don't spend time on forums.

Because I think there is no need to "educate" anybody. IMO, if you don't know something, then it probably means you didn't ever need that info.

Yes and no. While my need to 'educate' other people about Linux disappeared a couple years ago, I do think that some information should be available for them. It was only by chance that I picked up my uncle's computer magazine with a Linux CD inside. If I hadn't done it, I wouldn't probably know what linux is now (Personally, I don't know anyone who would be a real linux fan - I'm surrounded by MS/Apple people.

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul My cousin sister spends all her weekends in getting her Windows 7 loaded slow laptop fixed, but she's not willing to give Linux a try because all she knows about Linux is that it has got a black and white screen with some commands to type in! If she would have been educated about the options she has, I think she would have considered a switch.

Yes, Linux is this thing on a computer with black and white screen which is used by those... what'd you call them.....hackers.... to do bad things to other people.

Unfortunately, there are lots of misconceptions regarding linux out there. Many times I've been asked if linux has icons/windows/menu/desktop/etc. I usually answer that
you control linux with your thoughts

I'm curious...

If linux were to charge a license fee for their OS would it do linux good.

Think about it, if some company took linux by the horns and market it aggressively and charge only a minimal fee, the company can make money and thus hire more programmers, do extra marketing and hopefully win some hardware vendors to linux.

Would anyone pay for linux?

Originally Posted by sycamorex I usually answer that you control linux with your thoughts

Emotiv - Brain Computer Interface Technology
Sadly, thought-controlled computers are Windows-only, for the time being.

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul My cousin sister spends all her weekends in getting her Windows 7 loaded slow laptop fixed, but she's not willing to give Linux a try because all she knows about Linux is that it has got a black and white screen with some commands to type in!

IMO, that means she isn't motivated enough, and educating her wouldn't have any effect anyway. (Windows also has black and white screen for commands, by the way). To learn something, people have to ask a question for a start. Question indicates interest. Without interest it'll be hard to learn something.

Originally Posted by RedNeck-LQ Think about it, if some company took linux by the horns and market it aggressively and charge only a minimal fee, the company can make money and thus hire more programmers, do extra marketing and hopefully win some hardware vendors to linux.

There are already commercial/semi-commercial distributions. Another problem is GPL license (anybody is allowed to share/copy for free), which will make things complicated. And yet another problem is that even if you do hire programmers and they improve something, it doesn't mean that original developer/maintainer will accept your patch without making a scene (although people in command of particular software are supposedly doing a "good thing", they can be sometimes pain in the a** and it might take weeks to submit 3 lines of code.), so it is quite possible that you'll have to maintain several forks. Situation could be different if GNU and Linux were proprietary, but even in this case such "GNU/Linux corporation" would need a lot of luck and somebody skilled/motivated in command in order to avoid being squished by competitors. Also, there's no warranty that such company would even try to grab "home computer" market - they could decide to stick with servers/mobile devices and avoid home computers completely, as long as their profits are good.

Originally Posted by SigTerm IMO, that means she isn't motivated enough, and educating her wouldn't have any effect anyway. (Windows also has black and white screen for commands, by the way). To learn something, people have to ask a question for a start.

She hasn't seen that Linux has a GUI too through which you just have to point and click, not only her its my other uncle too, he also says that who's going to use that black and white screen with commands to mug up!

My uncle IS motivated enough, but because he has seen people only using terminals in Linux, how is he supposed to "guess" that there can be something else too (which makes life easier) but still those people do not prefer to use it (for unknown reasons)!
He talks to the computer specialist which comes home for fixing internet connections, he too tells him that yes Linux is all about that black and white screen.

Originally Posted by Sumguy Imagine if as many people knew that there were FREE alternatives which work even better; offer more software choices (also free); Are not prone to viruses and problems; and will will work with the PC they currently own?!

you have to ask yourself the why and stop imagining

the facts are you cant even get most folks interested in the free product and there is a reason for that

it's a pia is why and not necessarily because the product is bad, the problem is you have to cater to the win crowd which linux largely fails at not to mention in many quarters there isn't even a desire to do that

lousy attitude is a big problem in linux if it is even really interested in wider usage

rules are the same for linux as anyone else, you get what you ask for, you can't tell win refugees to f off in any way then expect interest

linux vs win desktop user #s tells the tale, all the rest is bs talk

i've been involved with linux for about 5 years and haven't converted anyone i know personally (outsida forum involvements) including in my family, stopped even trying awhile ago, can't even be bothered doing any more than mentioning it these days

Originally Posted by Anisha Kaul My uncle IS motivated enough, but because he has seen people only using terminals in Linux, how is he supposed to "guess" that there can be something else too (which makes life easier) but still those people do not prefer to use it (for unknown reasons)!

Then he should become interested enough to try livecd or an installation onto virtual machine, and search for additional information himself. If he hasn't tried that, then I guess his interest isn't strong enough.

On a side note, I'm beginning to think that the only reason why majority of people use Linux is because it is possible to get it for free (as in "free beer"), not because they have access to source code or can modify software freely. I.e. if there were free (as in "free beer") but proprietary system (no source code) with similar functionality, they would gladly use it instead of Linux. If I'm right, then it is kinda sad. (rhetoric question) What unique feature (not present in proprietary unix clones) does linux provide if you throw the whole "opensource ideology" away? If the only truly unique feature is ideology (and everything else could be developed on a unix clone), then it is definitely not good.

Originally Posted by SigTerm IMO, that means she isn't motivated enough, and educating her wouldn't have any effect anyway.

typical linux attitude that someone or something else is the problem, meanwhile outsida fringe #s, you can't even give linux away free

Originally Posted by SigTerm Then he should become interested enough to try livecd or an installation onto virtual machine, and search for additional information himself. If he hasn't tried that, then I guess his interest isn't strong enough.

You talk about Virtual machine and live CD? Perhaps you have forgotten that here we are talking about average people who don't live in advanced countries like America, who have got families and a 9 hour job which doesn't involve hacking, we are talking about those people who don't spend their lives talking to strangers on forums. How do you think my uncle is going to know about what is a virtual machine and a live cd? How should he search Google about something which he hasn't ever heard of? And BTW, my parents don't know that there is some other way of talking on the internet other that mails too and neither did I before I joined LQ (for which I was pushed by one of my seniors).

Originally Posted by SigTerm A reply on a forum or a recommendation from friend in response to computer-related question. I don't think so. IMO, if you don't know something, then it probably means you didn't ever need that info. When you'll need the knowledge, you'll have to locate/learn the information anyway. The user shouldn't have to know what is OS, how it is called, and what are alternatives (people forget everything they aren't personally interested in, so forcing knowledge about computers upon everybody won't be efficient). However, it should be easy to locate that info if the user ever becomes unsatisfied with his current software setup or becomes interested in computer's internals.

But the problem is: When the average housewife/teenager/truck driver experiences poor performance/aggravation/"computer problems", they do not realize that those issues are being caused by their OS. They either put up with it....look for some kind of software/AV to fix it...or go to a computer repair shop- and even if the computer repair nerd explains the problem to them ("Some .dll and cab files were corrupted and their were some invalid keys in the registry...glaven...") they still have no clue and think the problem was somewhere else other than their OS.

They don't search for an alternative OS, because in order to search for an alternative OS, they first have to understand what the source of their problem is. They more likely think that the problem is their computer- so oftentimes if they are driven to the point of finding a solution for their problems, that solution takes the form of getting a new computer...with Windows- and then the cycle starts all over again.