running latest software version on stable?

evo2 · 04-07-2013, 11:54 PM

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDDY1

I used to use aptitude faithfully until I tried upgrading from squeeze to wheezy which failed while using aptitude but succeeded using apt-get.

it seems you switched one release too late. Debian has recommended apt-get over aptitude for non-interactive commandline package management since the release of squeeze. See:

http://www.debian.org/releases/squee...radingpackages

Evo2.

EDDY1 · 04-08-2013, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdkaye

Ah, I understand. I've only ever used aptitude on testing. Perhaps that may explain the difference in our experiences.
ciao,
jdk

Yes I switched my squeeze installation to testing & am going to allow it to upgrade to the next testing, although I have another installation that was installed as wheezy which will remain wheezy until the next stable comes along.

Quote:

it seems you switched one release too late. Debian has recommended apt-get over aptitude for non-interactive commandline package management since the release of squeeze. See:

http://www.debian.org/releases/squee...radingpackages

Evo2.

Yes I guess I did, but really was into aptitude & still am,as it doesn't try to autoremove my whole desktop which has happened before. Although I was able to just do a simple "aptitude install gnome"
Also I really only got started with linux at squeeze, never had a working lenny system. Lets just say I tried getting lenny running, with no knowledge at all what I was doing.

jdkaye · 04-08-2013, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evo2

Hi,

it seems you switched one release too late. Debian has recommended apt-get over aptitude for non-interactive commandline package management since the release of squeeze. See:

http://www.debian.org/releases/squee...radingpackages

Evo2.

I think "non-interactive" is the key phrase here. Much of my package management (e.g. apt-pinning) involves interaction. Be that as it may, I have not experienced any problems using aptitude.
jdk

evo2 · 04-08-2013, 02:12 AM

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdkaye

I think "non-interactive" is the key phrase here. Much of my package management (e.g. apt-pinning) involves interaction.

Interesting. IIRC, any pinning I've done in the past was achieved by editing /etc/apt/preferences.

Quote:

Be that as it may, I have not experienced any problems using aptitude.

I was using aptitude for a while and was quite happy, but since I almost never used the interactive mode, switching back to apt-get was a sensible choice for me.

Cheers,

Evo2.

cynwulf · 04-08-2013, 02:50 AM

apt-get is recommended for dist-upgrade, but nothing else. The reason apt-get is recommended over aptitude in this scenario is because when upgrading from one release to the next, a "sledge hammer" approach is often needed. aptitude's dependency resolver is just too advanced (too fussy) in such cases.

Personally I prefer aptitude "non-interactive" mode above all else. It's horses for courses.

descendant_command · 04-08-2013, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caravel

It's horses for courses.

But if you're on the wrong course, horse choice is largely irrelevant.

evo2 · 04-08-2013, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caravel

apt-get is recommended for dist-upgrade, but nothing else.

Sorry, but that seems to be wrong.

From the introduction of Chapter 2 of the Debian Reference. http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/de...e/ch02.en.html

Quote:

The Debian package management system has a rich history and many choices for the front end user program and back end archive access method to be used. Currently, we recommend the following.
- apt-get(8) for all commandline operations, including package installation and removal, and dist-upgrades.
- aptitude(8) for an interactive text interface to manage the installed packages and to search the available packages.
- update-manager(8) for keeping your system up-to-date if you're running the default GNOME desktop.

Evo2.

cynwulf · 04-08-2013, 03:45 AM

Ok fair enough, that's odd. I've used aptitude for years (running stable, testing and unstable) and never had a problem.

jdkaye · 04-08-2013, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evo2

Hi,

Interesting. IIRC, any pinning I've done in the past was achieved by editing /etc/apt/preferences.
Evo2.

Indeed you do have to set up /etc/apt/preferences. Something along the lines of:

Code:

Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian,a=unstable
Pin-Priority: 600

Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian,a=testing
Pin-Priority: 650

Package: *
Pin: release o=qt-kde,a=experimental-snapshots
Pin-Priority: 101

But then if you use aptitude it's:

Code:

aptitude -t unstable install packagename.deb

Does that ring a bell?
jdk

jens · 04-08-2013, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdkaye

Does that ring a bell?
jdk

An alarm bell.

The OP asked for something that tracks a certain package on Debian stable in a production environment.

Main issue:
Stable => A well tested snapshot where updates are being backported.
Testing/unstable/experimental => constant development, major package updates.

While I use a similar setup on my desktop/workstations, I honestly wouldn't recommend this for stable "production servers".

Also keep in mind that testing/unstable/experimental will always keep evolving further away from stable after the initial release.

cynwulf · 04-08-2013, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdkaye

Code:

aptitude -t unstable install packagename.deb

Does that ring a bell?
jdk

apt-get/aptitude are not used to install .deb packages directly, for that use dpkg e.g.

Code:

# dpkg -i packagename.deb

widget · 04-08-2013, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDDY1

I used to use aptitude faithfully until I tried upgrading from squeeze to wheezy which failed while using aptitude but succeeded using apt-get.

Up until Squeeze aptitude was the recommended version upgrade tool by Debian.

With the change to Squeeze that recommendation was changed to apt-get by Debian.

evo2 · 04-08-2013, 04:22 PM

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdkaye

But then if you use aptitude it's:

Code:

aptitude -t unstable install packagename.deb

Does that ring a bell?

Sure, but that's not aptitude specific*, apt-get also has the -t option:

Quote:

Originally Posted by apt-get(8)

Code:

       -t, --target-release, --default-release
           This option controls the default input to the policy
           engine; it creates a default pin at priority 990 using the
           specified release string. This overrides the general
           settings in /etc/apt/preferences. Specifically pinned
           packages are not affected by the value of this option. In
           short, this option lets you have simple control over which
           distribution packages will be retrieved from. Some common
           examples might be -t '2.1*', -t unstable or -t sid.
           Configuration Item: APT::Default-Release; see also the
           apt_preferences(5) manual page.

Cheers,

Evo2.

* Assuming the '.deb' was something your fingers typed without input from your brain ;-)

EDDY1 · 04-08-2013, 09:48 PM

I think this thread is stuck in "Dependency Resolution loop" & the original question has a few answers but may have not been resolved for the user.

Quote:

1.Does it generally cause any problems if you want to keep the newest version of a particular piece of software installed on debian stable?

This is possibly true for 1 & 2:
If you must have a newer version, upgrading to Testing is an infinitely better idea than adding Sid or Testing packages to Stable. If you do not want to upgrade, but a package is not in backports, you could build it from source. I shall not try to give any specific advice, since I have never tried it. (I have theoretical knowledge, but no practical experience.)

Quote:

2.I've read somewhere that using a sid package on debian stable is not a good idea. What about just installing the software manually?

Quote:

3.If you want to do this is it just a better idea to "upgrade" your distro from stable to testing, even if it was a production server?

Some will say no, but testing will be stable soon & you will have to upgrade or stick with old stable.

Quote:

4.I forgot to add that there are no backports for this package.

You never said what the package is.

I must apologize to the OP for getting this thread off-topic.

jens · 04-09-2013, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDDY1

Some will say no, but testing will be stable soon & you will have to upgrade or stick with old stable.
You never said what the package is.

Small warning here:
If you're already planning to use Wheezy as a stable release, use "wheezy" and not "testing" in your config files.