Hi,
I'm not posting this to offend systemd supporters as we all know, it is the best thing happened to Linux sphere. But, for some reason, I would like to use, Debian testing with alternate init especially OpenRC or classic SysVinit.

I think that getting Gnome 3 to work without systemd is impossible now. So, what chances are there to successfully run Cinnamon or Mate or Xfce desktop environment in testing (apt pinned with sid, if needed) ? I believe that many a packages are now having libsystemd* as a dependency. So, these package will need to be blacklisted to get things to work?

Also, I know Devuan exists. It is really outdated and I hope to use a recent distro without systemd. Is it possible? Gentoo is too much trouble. Artix is another choice..But, I'm accustomed to Debian way from Debian Woody's time.

Check out Devuan!


It's Debian without systemd


Sorry. Didn't read thoroughly before posting. But devuan has given me no issues..


How is Devuan "outdated"?

When you compare to Debian testing repo, Devuan ASCII which is based on stretch has older packages. That's what I meant. The equivalent in Devuan is "Devuan Beowulf" - Do you think, it is possible to use Devuan testing as a Desktop OS?


BTW, how is your experience with Devuan? Which desktop are you using.



Thanks for the reply.

I have been using Devuan as my main OS for more than a year now. Running Ascii since long before it was considered stable without issue.

I haven't recently compared Devuan to Debian, so I can't comment on how much the difference in packages affects user experience.

I run lxde.

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antiX can be run with debian testing repos (there is an option to select testing at install time).

antiX maintains a "nosystemd" repo with many packages redone to remove the systemd dependency. things like network-manager and pulseaudio, and also including MATE desktop last time I checked (xfce doesn't require systemd anyway IIRC).

OOTB you get a window-manager environment but the desktops are there to be added. Like debian, you'll get vanilla offerings.

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While it can be accomplished with "basic" Debian, I would second this recommendation. Just go with antiX.

Devuan or antiX since you specified Debian base.

I tried booting MX Linux 17.1 July updated ISO using grub2. It seems really nice and interesting, and does not pack systemd. Seems like they have managed to run Cinnamon with sysVinit. Thanks for the suggestions, I will try antiX too.

I've been using AntiX for many years, it's a good solid distro, MX is it's sister distro, created in conjuction with many of the same team.

I was an advocate of Devuan for a while too, but I returned to my favourite - AntiX - it just suits me best.

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There are isos made by Refracta that have OpenRC, but you can switch to OpenRC from any Devuan (I understand), ascii, beowulf, ceres/sid. Look in the refracta experimental repository (usually).

With antix you can tell whether your packages are from Debian or from the AntiX repository, as they are separate, and you get debian pkgs directly.
With devuan they have what they call merged, which includes devuan repository and a screened feed from debian. How it is done is explained in amprolla documentation. If you switch /merged with /devuan you are only getting devuan pkgs, and you can add debian (corresponding distribution ascii-->stretch, beowulf-->buster, ceres-->sid) to have direct feed.

I have no experience with mx, it is relatively similar with antix, but it includes systemd/libsystemd in the system, just not used as an init system. No criticism in this approach, I am just not interested in it. It is like ubuntu with an alternate init system.

Antix has exorcised systemd (I believe the pkg systemd-must-die is still available ). It is a set of counter-dependencies conflict instructions that once installed it makes sure that systemd will not come in from debian.

The myth of sysvinit being out-dated is getting old, it was just updated last week. It just doesn't have many bugs, if any, as the oldest running unix init system.

If you want to try runit or s6 as init systems try void (runit), artix (openrc & runit), and obarun (s6).


Apart of the init system and its libraries, there are things like dbus, udev, elogind, pulseaudio, gnome, freedesktop, which very very few outside BSD, have been able to live without. Mostly because they don't want to, or they don't care. If you want the latest of cinnagnomemate chances are you don't deeply care.

Forgot to update. I switched to Devuan ASCII and using Cinnamon with lightdm. It needs some manual editing of conf files to get everything working - PAM, Policykit related as well as manually installing some elogind and polkit packages, while ensuring no consolekit packages are installed. But, it is stable and going good. I'm also testing FreeBSD 11.2 in VirtualBox with KDE 5 Plasma (for the sake of it!) and so far good.

but for how much longer....?

Re: Debian Buster release to partially drop non-systemd support (read the entire thread)
http://lists-archives.com/debian-dev...d-support.html

Created this thread: https://www.linuxquestions.org/quest...rt-4175640912/

That's depressing. I'm really interested in FreeBSD now. BSDs are not yet affected by the wanna be launchd clone.

Well: that affects only Debian (and based).
There are still distributions around which offer different init systems. Gentoo, Slackware, Void, Alpine seems to have a hype too ... quite some more, but those come to my mind right now.
Void looks very comfortable/easy to me, and it has new versions (seems like that is what you want).

I am wondering what will happen to debian/hurd and debian/kFreeBSD ...

Not saying FreeBSD would be a bad choice.

I can't hardly make any sense out of those poorly written statements. This is an exhibition of narcissism by semi-illiterate thugs.
What non-systemd-support are those fools talking about and who are they fooling?

One thing that comes out again and again, from those pathetic defenders of the maze, is the convenient polarity between systemd and sysvinit; like there is no third choice. And the choice should be on the init system alone, not the structure of how every tiny little piece of software relates to it.
This poll should illustrate what I am talking about: https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20180618#poll

If you were to follow debian-sid through the "safe" screen of antix (for example) you will see how they keep going back and forth with interdependencies, intentionally I believe, trying to throw fast balls at antix, mx, devuan, refracta. Usually by bundling software up unnecessarily and keep mixing and matching. Something that arch doesn't do, or at least resists in doing.

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