BIG WTF? to SUSE 10.1 developers

flounderworks · 05-23-2006, 08:50 PM

Hey Fragos:

Problem is, your comments take us right back to the situation that prompted me to start this thread in the first place. The situation you mention existed in 10.0 as well, but in 10.0 we were given a simple checkbox in yast to install the driver. In fact, Nvidia instructed people visiting their website to use Yast to install the driver. Now we are back to the old days again, ergo, WTF?

As for the generic driver, I understand what it is supposed to do, but it doesn't do it. I experienced the same problem Carl P mentions. The only thing that saved it was experience with Linux and dusting off command line skills. Not a good thing for a distro looking to become a Windows desktop replacement.

Sax sucks. That is the beginning and end of it.

flounderworks · 05-23-2006, 08:57 PM

Yamazz, redazz, Linux will work with PCI-e just fine, provided you have the proper driver.

Redazz, what card do you have? I don't recall your previous posts. Now that I have had to reaquaint myself with hand-loading Linux drivers, I would be happy to pass on any information that might help.

flounderworks · 05-23-2006, 09:01 PM

BTW, the 7600GX card I mentioned earlier is one of Nvidia's latest PCI-e cards and although I had to install the driver the old-fashioned way, now that it is in there the card works great. Linux doesn't give a damn if it's PCI, AGP, PCI-e, or even VLB! you just need to use the right driver.

flounderworks · 05-23-2006, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cogar

Windows controls something like 92% of the market. The hardware manufacturers have to create drivers that will run in Windows or their product will not sell. Most of them do not feel obligated to support Linux. There are some exceptions like NVIDIA that has a unified driver for Linux. Most new hardware (what we are discussing here) requires use of the manufacturer's drivers, usually on a CD that accompanies the hardware. The manufacturer may have WHQL Certified their drivers prior to release with Microsoft, but they still write the drivers, not Microsoft.

However, since the manufacturers do not choose to support Linux, it is up to the Linux community to develop something that will work, which takes time after a new hardware product is released. As a guess, I would say that it takes Microsoft as long to develop a driver that supports new hardware as it does for the Linux community to develop one. The difference is that Microsoft does not have to--the manufacturers do it for them, at least initially.

Um, I have to disagree strongly with you on this one. The majority of issues regarding video relate to Linux supported hardware (Nvidia and ATI). My network printer worked fine with 10.0. With 10.1? well, I'm still trying. The problem isn't with hardware support, it's with SUSE's complete inability to provide anything like easy integration. In fact, in some cases, we went backwards from easy integration in 10.0 to neanderthal integration in 10.1. WTF?

I love linux and will continue to support it, but a pig is a pig and I'm not going to make excuses for poor programming and design decisions.

flounderworks · 05-23-2006, 10:19 PM

OK, SUSE 10.1 is officially JUNK in my house.

Anyone try to identify a directory or iso as an installation source? They have even broken YAST! What the hell is going on SUSE! all the eye candy in the world doesn't cover up the cracks in this pig!

See ya.

fragos · 05-23-2006, 11:00 PM

The best tool is one you can and do use. In your case SuSE isn't a good choice. In my case SuSE is the best tool I could find. Good luck with whatever you find to meet your needs.

Carl P · 05-24-2006, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fragos

Remember that Linux supported 64 bit long before Microsoft did. If I'm not mistaken, the current shipping Windows XP is still 32 bit.

You can actually get Windows XP Professional x64 Edition, which is basically a 64-bit version of Windows XP that's based on the Windows Server 2003 code base. It doesn't really have widespread support yet but it's getting there. Most manufacturers probably won't have full 64-bit support until Vista is released...

reddazz · 05-24-2006, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flounderworks

Yamazz, redazz, Linux will work with PCI-e just fine, provided you have the proper driver.

Redazz, what card do you have? I don't recall your previous posts. Now that I have had to reaquaint myself with hand-loading Linux drivers, I would be happy to pass on any information that might help.

I don't have any problems with my hardware. I was responding to Yamazz who was having problems with a PCI-E graphics card.

Kreagon · 05-24-2006, 01:30 PM

All I can say is Novell nuked a good distro.

Cogar · 05-24-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flounderworks

Um, I have to disagree strongly with you on this one. The majority of issues regarding video relate to Linux supported hardware (Nvidia and ATI). My network printer worked fine with 10.0. With 10.1? well, I'm still trying. The problem isn't with hardware support, it's with SUSE's complete inability to provide anything like easy integration. In fact, in some cases, we went backwards from easy integration in 10.0 to neanderthal integration in 10.1. WTF?

I love linux and will continue to support it, but a pig is a pig and I'm not going to make excuses for poor programming and design decisions.

My comments were not addressed to you, nor did my reply have anything to do with your rant.

RBEmerson · 05-24-2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kreagon

All I can say is Novell nuked a good distro.

Sigh... much as I hate to say it... +1. I've been using SuSE distros since it seriously helped to be able to read German to really understand what was going on. 10.0 has proven to be as unstable as some of the earlier rev's, and that's being nice about it. Put all the lipstick anyone wants on this pig but it remains a pig. And, believe me, I really wish it were otherwise.

leandean · 05-24-2006, 11:19 PM

My .02. I have trouble understanding all the brouhaha with 10.1. Outside of Xgl being a little shaky on my 64 bit work machine and some early problems with the package manager that I got worked out, it's a much better distro than 10.0 or the 9s. I did fresh installs on my home desktop (AthlonXP 2000 w/1GB Ram and Nvidia 6200GT)and laptop (P-4 2.8GHz, 1GB Ram and 'shudder' Intel 855GM) without any of the install/driver headaches I had with earlier flavors. The work machine (Athlon64 3500+, 1GB Ram and Nvidia 6200) was an upgrade from 9.3. Some things I had to re-configure like the network printer, which is "much" easier than earlier distros, VPN and some lamp stuff but all in all it was fairly painless.

Linux being Linux, no matter the flavor, it's not just 'point and click' on the defaults. Nor is it meant to be. If that's what you want, give your money to Bill or Steve Jobs. I'm sure they will be happy to take it.

J.W. · 05-25-2006, 12:14 AM

{Edit]
My 2 cents -- working SuSE 10.1 so far has been pretty difficult, and I don't know that I'd recommend it as a good first distro for someone who's just starting out with Linux. This release just doesn't seem to be on par with previous releases (in particular v9.3, which was as clean as could be)

I hate to come across in a negative way, but at least at this point I need to take a time out to settle down. YMMV (hopefully, and more positively) Good luck.

rshaw · 05-25-2006, 12:44 AM

imho, suse has a long history of their x.1 releases being broken. 7.1,8.1,9.1 and now 10.1 all not ready for prime time(tm). so not much of a surprise here. the new zen updater is completely broken and was the first thing to be shown the door. apt is still available but no one has built synaptic yet so i'm using smart for now. there is a giant yast/rug/zen-updater patch(es) in cvs so hopefully they will arrive via YOU soon.

fragos · 05-25-2006, 01:12 AM

I'm more in tune with leandean. There is always startup issues to step over. The install is very new and different. It needs work particularly in the area of performance tuning. I for one can already see that it will be a great improvement over the past. I look forward to experiencing where I'm sure it will all end up. There's a lot that's better than 10.0. Perhaps it's an issue of expectations. I for one look at the unbelievable value and short release schedule and am impressed. I accept the bumps in the road. Each should use the tools that are most comfortable for them.