For an interesting and amusing (if a touch dated) perspective on deliberately running Windows viruses in Wine, this article is a good read.

Glore2002, I applaude your enthusiasm, which has been obvious since you started posting here at LQ. You asked for opinions and here are mine:

Of course, Word does not exist in a traditional GNU/Linux system. However, most of the students are young and their minds fresh. I long ago learned that "kids" are highly adaptable. You can provide Word, through a virtual machine or WINE, or you can preinstall OOo, KWord, or Abiword. Just be honest --- other than the basics Abiword is no match for even Word 97. Of course, most people only need the basics (professionals need, demand, and expect much more). OOo Writer does not yet contain a draft/editing mode (called Normal View in Word), which will frustrate many people. KWord uses a frames approach, which is unfamiliar to most typical users unless they have dabbled with Publisher or FrameMaker.

By control panel most people will find that in KDE at least, the Control Center is what they seek. Xfce provides Settings. If necessary, change the menu name from Control Center or Settings to Control Panel. Then they will always find "the control panel."

The typical user hasn't a clue about dependencies. All they know is when a software package is installed and then fails to run as expected, that the software must be crap. They don't know what to do after the software fails to run --- deer in the headlights analogy. That's why most people choose the distro route rather than building a GNU/Linux system from scratch --- the distro maintainers test all dependencies and the user should never even think about the issue. If you have students asking about dependencies then find a different distro.

I'm not a graphic artist, but browsing the web indicates the overwhelming opinion is no, not really. For basic raster image work there is GIMP (GTK) and Krita (KDE). For vector graphics there is Inkscape (GTK) and Karbon (KDE). For most people who want only to perform basic photograph touch up and cropping, the consensus opinion throughout the web is that GIMP and Krita will more than suffice. For professionals, the consensus opinion throughout the web is GIMP and Krita fall short of Photoshop. However, your target audience is students and teachers, not professional graphic artists.

As much as I prefer Slackware for myself, I would not recommend Slackware for typical users. Most typical users never have installed an operating system --- they buy computers with the OS preinstalled. (Most people who operate a car never perform maintenance on the car.) To discuss installing an operating system is a waste of time with the typical user. If your students are enrolled in a computer USAGE class, then the topic of installing an operating system should be discussed only superficially. If the students are enrolled in a more sophisticated class --- where they learn more of what is under the hood, then installing software is a valid topic.

Is Slackware easier to use than Ubuntu? Non sequitur. The only thing the typical user sees and understands is the desktop. Once Slackware or Ubuntu is properly configured to boot into X, then the question of being easier to use becomes empty. Most typical users understand desktop icons and system "start" menus. That is all most typical users will need and venture to discover.

Is Slackware easier to maintain than Ubuntu? Irrelevant to the typical user. The typical user only knows "point-and-click." You will enjoy no more success convincing a typical user to manually edit a configuration file than you will convincing a typical car owner to change the engine oil. When typical users want to install a new package, they will look for a point-and-click method to download and install the package. The stock Slackware provides no such graphical tool, but some third-party graphical tools exist. If you want to sell Slackware to your students and teachers, then you'll have to provide such graphical tools.

Please understand that I am not passing judgment on the typical computer user. I am only sharing my observations about the typical user and I have been using computers for more almost 30 years. During that period I have been amazed at how the typical user refuses to look under the hood. I am not about to change human nature and neither are you. Typical users simply are not interested in what is under the hood. They only want to know how to download a web page, audio file, or movie. Typical users never have heard about using templates and style tags in a word processor. All they know is the "B", "I," and "U" buttons for formatting. Many people still use the tab key to indent the first sentence of a paragraph.

Windows and Macs use mount points too. The mounting process is masked from most people, however. The typical user who uses GNU/Linux is not going to know about mount points either because that is all auto-configured in fstab or udev. If you are discussing mount points with typical users in a computer USAGE class, then you already have lost their attention. You should instead focus on why they can't find the C: drive.

Each physical drive can be partitioned into only 4 primary partitions. One primary partition can be divided into logical partitions, however. For SCSI systems the limit is 15 partitions, for IDE the limit is 64 logical partitions.

But again, typical users will only get glassy-eyed if you discuss the subject with them.

Windows can be made secure too. More energy is required, that's all. However, the inherent design of any 'nix operating system lends well to securing a system with less effort --- but an effort is required nonetheless.

Users can install programs in their $HOME directory. In a secure 'nix system, that is the only place users can and should install software. However, the package must be compiled with that in mind. Most are compiled to install in /usr or /usr/local.

Completely dependent upon the browser and filtering software. The end result might be true only because many people allow their Windows boxes to become infested with viruses which tend to hijack browsers and URLs.

The same thing could happen to GNU/Linux users too if they are careless. Several months ago there was a discussion here at LQ about a screen saver (web collage) that randomly grabbed images from the web. Out of curiosity I tested the screen saver and the very first image downloaded was p0rn.

Indirectly yes. The Linux kernel is based upon the Unix model of operating systems, which was always a multi-user system. In the late 1960s when Unix was developed, hardware was expensive. A single mainframe served all users through dumb terminals. Therefore a multi-user design was necessary from the beginning. Because of that multi-user design, basic security was inherent in the model.

The desktop PC movement was different: creating a single user machine. Back in the 1980s when Microsoft, Apple, Commodore, Sinclair, Atari, etc. all started, there was nothing inherently wrong or incorrect with such an approach. The goal was to create an affordable machine for people to use in the office and at home. Indeed, part of the goal was to bring computers to the masses, which previously had always been controlled because of the cost of hardware. The single user design allowed people to configure their computers the way they wanted, not the way an IT administrator wanted. In several ways the single user design, despite being based upon proprietary software, created new freedoms and liberty.

When the single user model began the world wide web did not yet exist, most office managers did not think about networking, and almost no home users thought about networking. Modems and bulletin boards were the extend of any "networking" most people considered or experienced back then. Therefore the original design of the single user machine was reasonable. Only after the world wide web and general networking exploded did the single user design encounter challenges.

Additionally, nobody predicted script kiddies emerging or people who wrote damaging virus and Trojan horse software just for kicks. Generally, most people tend to presume the best in others, not the worst.

In perspective and with hindsight, neither design approach is wrong or bad. The goals were and are quite different.

Although I have found Slackware to be stable, and I use Slackware daily, I'd like to see actual hard data as evidence that any one particular distro is more stable than another. All I have ever read is subjective opinions.

I realize you are on a mission to "sell" GNU/Linux to other teachers and students. Please do not exaggerate or develop a fan-boy mentality. Be truthful.

I much prefer the philosophical arguments for adopting GNU/Linux, which basically reduces to one argument: the freedom to tinker. People remain free to contract with others to use proprietary code, but the freedom to tinker and study the source code is invaluable. Most people are not qualified or trained to understand the software source code, but many are, and therein lies protection for typical users. Typical proprietary software is infested with phone-home and user-control nonsense, which would be impossible to propagate if the source code was free to be studied.

The great advancements in human society occurred when information and knowledge was shared. The great regressions in human society occured when information and knowledge was restricted.

Other reasons to sell GNU/Linux:

* Improved job skills. Knowing more than one operating system produces a stronger skill set.

* Simple curiosity. Exploring new ways of doing things is part of human nature.

I would refrain from technical arguments when trying to introduce GNU/Linux to typical users. All they know is point-and-click. Therefore confine the arguments to those the typical user would appreciate --- which is usability. Typical users don't care about what is under the hood. For kids, if they can't figure out how to play music, watch videos, or surf the web, then they will not be interested. Ensure your GNU/Linux systems provide those basics and then they will be more than likely ready to explore other facets of the operating system.

Thank you very much!

Today, I've started sharing my experiences with colleagues (also computing professionals). First encounter was about PARTITIONING. Since one computing pro needs to know what partitions are, types of partitions, how to create, delete and modify those partitions in order to install an operating system, relatively, well. If you plan to install more than an operating system, this becomes even more important. At least, this is what I think.

The talk took around 40 minutes.

I told them about the 4 primary partitions limit, what were extended partitions and Logical units and some advantages of partitioning.
I also talked about what Win needs to be installed and some partitioning schemes Linux may use. Mount Points were another topic (difficult one). Your opinions helped me a lot.

We were 5 in the room (3 women, 2 men). Women didn't know how to partition. Even further, they had never partitioned a system. They knew what partitioning was and some advantages but not why it is sometimes necessary. What I wrote here is just to describe what happened and not to say men are better. As we all know, women rule the world :-)

So, as a conclusion, the talk was possitive. I prefered to start from scratch and not starting from an arbitrary point. I think it was a good decision.

Next week I will try to make my colleagues partition an 80 Gb HD to make it adequate to hold Win and Linux in a dual boot system. I will make them use Gparted.

Woodsman, your post was very clear and detailed. You were right when saying "most users want to point and click". Let me add, if you don't mind, that many computing professionals also like to point and click and don't care about the "under the hood" point of view :-)

I am a Systems Analyst who works as a teacher since 1988 (that's 20 years. Oh my God!!! :-) I need to open the hood. I also like Bicycles (I use my bike to commute). I need to know how my bicycle works, I take care of its mechanics. I need to know how things work in general. Slackware and Linux are some kind of addictive too. Yes, I know, I need a psicologist. That's what my wife and children also say. As a joke I hope! :-)

Thanks pinniped for your comments and suggestions and the CD with Open Source soft for Win. This is another way to show users what open source programs can do. That way, going to Linux will be less painful.

Thanks cwwilson721; bashyow; rigelan; unSpawn; dizzi; rkrishna; theYinYeti; H_TeXMeX_H; harryhaller; GazL; Hangdog42; Woodsman and pinniped. Sorry if I've forgotten someone. As I said before, you are really nice and cooperative people.

Thanks to all of you. I really appreciate your help, advices and opinions.

Glore2002.-

try fdisk that is the best atleast we know what we are doing, all these fancy partition managers will cause problems.

take a terminal, try fdisk as root

first try 'fdisk -l ' and view the disks

for eg. do
fdisk /dev/sda
press p to list the partitions
m will show all the options

best of luck

Why so? Those who know me can attest I use the command line a lot, maybe too much.
Still, I don't see anything wrong with using a GUI partition manager; quite the contrary in fact as the GUI helps you in keeping a broad view on the overall layout while you're managing the finest details!

Yves.

But fdisk won't let you shrink your Windows partition to make room for Linux. A partition editor like (g)parted can do that for you.

Eric

A race horse isn't much good at pulling a dray, but you wouldn't enter a Shire Horse in a race.

fdisk / cfdisk are partition editors.
gparted is more of a filesystem manipulation tool.

Right tool(horse) for the right job, as the saying goes.

All of your 4(four) advices and comments are OK but if one has to shrink win partition, as Eric said, Gparted becomes a good alternative.

Since fdisk doesn't show a graphical view of the discs, it would be harder to tell the rest of the staff how the partitions are distributed. Besides that, I prefer to show them a tool able to shrink a win partition too. And, again, most users prefer just point and click instead of writing commands. Not my case but I have to admit Woodsman was very right!

Next time I need to partition at home, I will give fdisk a try.

I want to show my colleagues how to partition and how to install a dual boot system using open source tools. Of course, fdisk and Gparted are both valid options. What I would like to avoid is using software such as partition magic or so.

Thank you!
glore2002.-

Try Parted magic - it has gparted as well as a lot of other useful tools.
Parted Magic is available as live CD image, USB pendrive boot image and PXE boot image. I have it installed on my PXE server so that I can use it with every computer in my LAN that supports network-boot. Great tool. I use it indeed to shrink Windows partitions so I can install Linux for people.

Eric

I have used gparted many times, both from within my Slackware operating system and as a live CD. I never had any problems with either resizing partitions or file systems as gparted does both. I have not used gparted to resize NTFS partitions, however. I always used the native Windows Disk Administrator.

I have used c/fdisk a number of times and I prefer gparted. Images speak volumes to help visualize the partitioning process. This is especially true for people foreign to the idea of partitioning.

A graphical interface will be a huge ally with convincing noobs to the idea of partitioning. c/fdisk will frighten most people. Understand that the typical user today has never seen a command line, let alone a command line tool.

Regarding dual booting, I have used grub for a dual boot machine for many years. Grub seems well suited for that kind of task.

Great news, glore2002, about your decision to teach your students Linux. I'm currently teaching a Grade 4/5 class; I have a LAN of 20 computers in my classroom (a mixture of Apple units, Windows, and Linux). From my experience I've found that children are not intimidated at all by Linux or technology in general. I'm very encouraged when I read stories about fellow educators spreading the FOSS message to their students!

I'd recommend to use something GUI for partitioning when learning. After the students master gparted for example, or whatever GUI app you choose, then move to fdisk/cfdisk. Let them learn the feel and general appearance of the partitions in an easy manager. fdisk will just get them lost at the first time. Let them get the big picture.

Nice to hear I am not alone! Thanks for your words.
What Linux distribution did you install at School? Do you create a user for each of the students or just the same user for all the students who might been using that computer? This is one of the items I've been thinking about. Most of the time, students work in pairs and those pairs keep changing to make them work as a group and with different partners. So, creating users is one of the points one has to focus when implementing a Linux system (or any other) at School.

With win, we have two users (in most computers). Admin and students. This is not the best solution (I can assure that) but it works -relatively- well. We also have unit C: frozen (deep freeze) and unit D: is where they save their work.

Thanks!
Glore2002.-

I wouldn't agree with that at all. Computers were very expensive back then so a typical computer owning family only had 1 computer shared between everyone. WinDuhs exposed everyone else's data to everyone's mistakes. "Daddy, I accidentally deleted ___". So DOS and WinDuhs were defective from the start. In the late 1970s many small businesses were using PCs; some even had internal networks (if the business could afford ~2k more per PC for the network hardware and software). Once again, even in this LAN environment, data was being needlessly exposed to other people - a huge step backwards from the earlier days of computing. Surely enough businesses must have been complaining and asking for something better - why else would MS have developed the NT series? This is also why big businesses (banks and airlines have had worldwide networks since the late 1950s or early 1960s) continued to use the huge expensive machines. Not all were running a variant of UNIX, but the systems were multi-user and had schemes to protect users from other users. A variant of UNIX was even created for the PC; after all, who wouldn't want the benefits of UNIX? Unfortunately it never grew to be as popular as DOS and WinDuhs and remained a niche market with extremely few developers. You really have to give the guys at Red Hat a lot of credit for promoting and supporting free software and Linux; the software available today is just incredible (but some professional software in certain areas would still be very welcome).

At school my 10 Linux computers run Debian 4.0 (Etch). I have the same user for all students who are using the computers as I feel that I don't really need the extra security of individual accounts (I supervise quite closely what the students are doing). However, with older high school age students I would create individual accounts. I love the fact that I have close to zero maintenance with my Linux units. I can't say that about my student Windows boxes.
At home I run Slackware and FreeBSD.