guru's infected threads - I am voting against reputation system

Is there some reason that you can't just ignore an answer that you don't like? If I knew that my occasionally silly answers would irritate people for more than a few seconds then I would have to stop posting.

Ah, I looked at the thread in question and saw the problem.

I searched this forum, and found nothing appropriate. So, your advice is to look for help in some other place than here. But for what then is this all about? According to you @dugan the home page of LQ should contain warning : "google before asking".

So the problem is not being expected to look for an answer. The problem is being expected to look for an answer in more than one place. Why should a search for information be limited to one website? Especially LQ? No disrespect intended to LQ, but there are probably many sites better to find programming information than this forum. Why not utilise them?

Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus No disrespect intended to LQ, but there are probably many sites better to find programming information than this forum. Why not utilise them?

Actually I found help here. That post solved my problem. I was given valuable link, with simple example "how to", and suggestion to look for other reasonable solution. From that point it is OK. I can even mark that thread as [SOLVED].

But you see even now posters are diverging this thread to sand beach of "complains about one, particular thread".

Let say this clear: this thread is trying to rise general problem. Which should be obvious by the title and my first ever post here.

We may restate this as "bad behaviour" of guru's and veterans. And where is this come from ? My suggestion is that this may come from post counts, and/or reputation points.

Originally Posted by igadoter My proposition is that OP should have at least ability to close thread, in way that afterthat no one could post. To be kind and asking others posters to stay focus on subject, often is completely ignored, and thread is starting to live its on life. Becaming more and more garbage. I think this is proposition to consider, and imlementing this can create defense against "guru's good advices". Once OP would realize that thread is going nowhere it could close it, marking as [CLOSED] (not [SOLVED]). Probably the good experiment is to search all threads for word 'google'. Let see how many posters gave this advice, and who are they. Simiarly we may have a look for any given common "good advices". Also I think that, well, not very clear idea "to teach", is wrong. Someone thinks it has knowledge, skills, I would suggest to create blog entry, manual, howto's. At least this can be validated by others.

I disagree. I like thread management as it is done now.

I also believe that enabling others about how to learn and self solve their technical problems is absolutely the correct direction here. I feel it is the embodiment of LQ, and it parallels the experience of working with Linux very much.

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 For new users it is a form of intimidation.

How do you know?

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 The vast majority of people see post counts as experience.

Well maybe you do, but you can't speak for the "vast majority of people". For example I see huge post counts as "he needs to get outside more".

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 Someone joined the site in 2001, been around a long time. They post a lot and have 5000 posts. New user joins the forum in 2015 and says hi with a single question. Why should that new user be enticed to stick around and answer questions when the new user will walk away with the perception that there are many people here that have more supposed knowledge then the new user?

Perhaps most new users don't think like that? Perhaps only you think like that? New users seem to have joined, seem to be sticking around and the site seems to be thriving, so someone seems to be doing something right.

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 It is life in general. Experience is perceived as knowledge and very few are willing to look at someone who has been building engines (for instance) for 25 years and have that builder in a room where a new builder might stand and someone comes in with a question. Even though the new builder feels as if he is qualified (maybe book smart) to answer a question, he will probably allow the one with 25 years experience to answer the question.

Not really a good analogy. You're effectively suggesting that the experienced members should just step away and let inexperienced members post answers without fearing correction/interference? This will simply degrade the quality of answers on the site, just to please a perceived few who take offence at someone being registered for longer than they have and with a higher post count.

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 This is not even including the people who post just for the perception of knowledge (upping post count). The people who have been around this forum will not see the problem, new users would beg to differ.

Please elaborate.

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 What is the real use of post counts anyway? To show you have been helping others? This is not always the case but does give the perception you might have more experience then me if you have more post counts.

Post count (and indeed reputation and join date) could help in the following way:

1) User asks question
2) User who is an unknown quantity responds with some malicious or dangerous commands for that user to run
3) User with 5000+ posts and high reputation who has been a member for 1+ years responds with a correction or warning about this
4) These two contradict each other and proceed to debate/discuss/argue over the details

User does not want to break his system, so what does he do? Yes he can research the answers he's been given - in fact that's what he should do anyway, but he's asking on a forum. In this case, the fact that one is an unknown quantity and the other is a long term user does assist the new user in choosing what to do. The same goes for someone just reading the thread looking for answers at a later date.

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 There are many tech sites that do not use post counts for this reason. It is nothing but a number to intimidate a new user. People are proud of them I know, but they do nothing. Just because someone has a 5000 associated with there name doesnt automatically make them some genius.

I would like to see some examples of those sites. It is nothing but a number is correct. The intimidation part however is perceived. It intimidates you, it might not intimidate others as it's not designed to be nor does it set out to be intimidating. The 5000 post "genius" types are easily exposed - or you'd think so - I have yet to encounter any here, but there are such people on some other Linux related forums. On other forums they get away with it because they rely on the ignorance of other members.

As I said earlier in this thread, the post counts, join dates and reputations are only a problem if people make them a problem.

I suggest the focus of this thread should be the validity and usefulness of "google it"/"STFW" answers. If those are a problem then that should be discussed in more detail without resorting to finger pointing. That would be more productive than rants about "gurus", post counts, join dates and reputation levels.

https://www.webmasterworld.com/

http://www.techrepublic.com/forums/discussions/

There are a couple forums without post count.

Originally Posted by cynwulf How do you know?

It is very simple psychology (which I study). Let me bring up another analogy:

Room full of Linux admins (we will say 50). A new guy walks into the room with a question, will he ask? Chances are low and even if he does there is a chance that the experience will lend to him never asking again (if they go the elitist route (not exclusive to Linux BTW).

People do have a problem being among others with more experience and being comfortable.

I would be willing to bet, if Jeremy looked at some statistics on this site he would find that lurkers make up most of his traffic. I would also be willing to bet that the top ten posters would be people with the most posts and would be people with the oldest accounts (majority). There is a reason whether anyone wants to admit it or not. No one likes to look like the dumb guy in a room full of Linux admins.

Some will say I am full of it, okay. But why is Jeremy asking for ways to make the site more friendly for new users? He is probably attracting users but they don't get involved much or create an account and don't post as all.

I would perfectly expect people who have been members for years with high post counts not to understand. To the new user, you are the admin standing among other admins.

LinBox2013, correct me if I'm misunderstanding you, but it looks like you're trying to say that we need to make the userbase look less experienced, and that appearing to to have an experienced userbase is intimidating to new users.

In that case, eliminating post counts won't do anything. It will be the quality of the posts already there that will speak for themselves.

And as for igdolator's further posts, they speak for themselves too.

Originally Posted by dugan LinBox2013, are you trying to say "We should make the userbase look less qualified/smart/experienced in order to make the place less welcoming"? Which country are you posting from?

I am in the souther USA.

No, I am saying we should all look like equals and everyone will feel equal and welcome.

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 To the new user, you are the admin standing among other admins.

Hmm... although I registered a couple of years ago, I only recently started to dig in more actively at this forum. So, I consider myself a fairly "new" user.

The reason I am active at THIS forum and not, say, StackOverflow is in fact the friendliness and the LACK of elitism.

Most (all?) users with both high rep and post counts I have seen here are being extremely polite towards "newbies". Which is the way I like it. That said, it is somewhat disheartening reading posts like:

Hi! Here's my problem. Fix it!

But even those are handled, in most cases, with a respectful answer.

So, I am not saying you are necessarily wrong LinBox2013, I just don't completely agree with what you wrote. And, to be clear, that does in no way mean I am your foe.

Respectfully,
HMW

People do have a problem being among others with more experience and being comfortable.

Really? I shall take your word for it, because I do not feel uncomfortable. Am I exceptional?

I would also be willing to bet that the top ten posters would be people with the most posts and would be people with the oldest accounts (majority).

The top ten posters have the most posts? No kidding.

The people posting over the longest period of time have the most posts? Safe bet.

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 https://www.webmasterworld.com/ http://www.techrepublic.com/forums/discussions/ There are a couple forums without post count.

The first not only has post count, but badges that indicate "top poster", "top 100", etc. The second doesn't have post count, but is predicated on a voting system. It's also had a total of four posts in July, so I don't know that it should be used as a model of participation.

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 It is very simple psychology (which I study). Let me bring up another analogy: I would be willing to bet, if Jeremy looked at some statistics on this site he would find that lurkers make up most of his traffic. I would also be willing to bet that the top ten posters would be people with the most posts and would be people with the oldest accounts (majority). There is a reason whether anyone wants to admit it or not. No one likes to look like the dumb guy in a room full of Linux admins.

I look at LQ stats, delve into forum culture, analyse participation methodology, study community building and do quite a bit of other research. Lurkers do make up the majority of LQ's traffic. And the majority of every site's traffic. There's even a rule based on this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_r...net_culture%29

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 Some will say I am full of it, okay. But why is Jeremy asking for ways to make the site more friendly for new users? He is probably attracting users but they don't get involved much or create an account and don't post as all.

I ask because I want to do absolutely everything I can to make LQ as good as it can possibly be. There will never be a day where I don't think we can improve, or where I don't think I can learn.

Originally Posted by LinBox2013 I would perfectly expect people who have been members for years with high post counts not to understand. To the new user, you are the admin standing among other admins.

I suspect you are in the minority in your opinion, but I would very much like feedback (especially from newer members) on this.

--jeremy

Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus Really? I shall take your word for it, because I do not feel uncomfortable. Am I exceptional?

Not everyone is the same. I am comfortable posting, just don't do it much.

Originally Posted by Randicus Draco Albus The top ten posters have the most posts? No kidding. The people posting over the longest period of time have the most posts? Safe bet.

In a healthy community you would have a mix. You would not have the oldest posters always being the top posters.

If the is a "no kidding" to you then you are missing what I am saying.

Originally Posted by jeremy I suspect you are in the minority in your opinion, but I would very much like feedback (especially from newer members) on this. --jeremy

Well, in case you missed it:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post5392269

Originally Posted by HMW Well, in case you missed it: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post5392269

I did see it. Thanks for the feedback.

--jeremy

My thinking on the whole "don't show post counts" thing is:

What would be the point?

Those who are very active, you see them a lot now, and they'll continue to be very active.

I submit that a high rate poster is going to still be seen in the forums at a noticeable rate. So I don't care what their post count is.

I feel you're just asking for change because "you" have an insecurity.

I may have entered the forums feeling in some similar manner, but I'd say for me it was more respectful and evaluating and at some point I posted what I felt were answers. And that continued.