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Old 04-13-2001, 06:21 PM   #1
rabidundead
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i f***'n hate windows! need ANY help installing linux with windows Me


OK, my situation is I have an HP Pavilion 700MHz Celeron system, into which i installed a Western Digital 13 Gig HD. Freakin' BIOS does't recognize this drive on its own. HD came with a BIOS replacement app. called EZBIOS to make the computer recognize the second IDE HD. OK.

EZBIOS only lets me boot from drive A: (floppy) or C: (original HD running Windows ME). So I can't boot directly to the D:(Western Digital HD) drive from the BIOS Config Screen (CTRL key at POST). I can't reach the CMOS without using the Western Digital Utility Disk to remove EZBIOS (leaving the D drive unrecognizeable by the CMOS.

SO.. Since I'm running this stinking Windows ME on my C: drive and have all of my productive applications in Win32 format - I have to leave that (cuss) of a system on my c: drive.

I really want to get Mandrake 7.2 onto the D: drive since my c: drive is 1/2 full (out of 20 gig) and (if not Mandrake 7.2) most of the distros I want would take up so much space on the c: drive (incl. packages) that there wouldn' be much left for my imagery and code archives.

QUESTION 1: need to know if i can get around Win ME not having a safe-mode dos prompt, or startup disk option mode that recognizes actual data on the HDs.

QUESTION 2: if there is none (i have the idea of copying ALL of the C: drive to the D: drive and then installing linux to the C: drive) - will this work?

QUESTION 3: in considering QUESTION 1, do i need to use the Western Digital Utilities to make the D: drive bootable or will the CD i burned from the ISO to install Mandrake 7.2 set sector 0 boot log data for me? (probably one of my probs. just can't restart to test it, since i'm downloading a huge file with an iffy download manager, as i type this.

Anyone know where i can get a windows emulator until i get linux replacements for Jasc PSP 7 and Conitec's 3DGameStudio-a4 (if you know where i can get these kinds of production environments cheap, let me know - please!!!!)

THANX for ANY HELP !!

[Edited by rabidundead on 04-13-2001 at 06:27 PM]
 
Old 04-14-2001, 04:13 PM   #2
webtoe
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yes, this is quite strange. i thought that you only need the ezbios jobby if it was an old bios (and the pavilion range isn;t). the exbios was to upgrade bioses that couldn;t handle their drives (my grandad had one installed [i did it] but it was only a 3 gig [when they were quite impressive :-) ])

not having ME i can;t answer first question, but i know that you can;t install windows on the second drive and put linux on the first. that's one of the things that makes windows a right bitch of a system, it's boot sector needs to be first or it gets upset (or it needs to think its that important).

when you install linux makes sure that lilo is installed to the MBR. even though the bios can;t see the drive maybe hard drake will see the 2nd drive and let you use it.

i find it really strange that the original bios doesn;t work.

Alex

P.S. if you want a windows emulator there is wine which is rather unstable at the moment. there is also vmware which is commercial and quite expensive but works really well (so i hear). there;s also plex 86 which apparently is supposed to be a free version of vmware or something.

sorry if none of this was ne help
 
Old 04-15-2001, 01:24 PM   #3
rabidundead
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Red face

hey, webtoe, thnx. i tried the drive switch idea before your post - saw exactly what you mean. boy ain't it a bitch! um, got another idea:

! - what if i setup my drives along a partition boundary of
having half of my c: a fat32 and the other half linux.
then i could setup my d: the same way (sort of like
vertically dividing my drives for each OS, if ya
understand my weird thought process). anyway, i could
move my docs and apps for windows into the d: fat32
partition and just leave the core windows system on the
c: fat32 partition. i'm hoping that will leave enough
room for mandrake in its own partition on the c: and
i can store my personal junk (for each OS) on the d:.

? - also, which 'installation' is it that will allow this sort of setup to take? the mandrake install program is kinda unclear (at least to me) as to which will help me in this (if any). i definitely want to avoid running linux from windows, up until it is my LAST resort.

? - and please, someone, what's a good site for finding win32 application clones for linux (if i had some replacement apps to the ones i have in windows, i wouldn't need windows at all - and that would eliminate this whole insanity outright.)

thnx 4 ANY help!!!!!!1

PS: these are the windows apps i need to replace (that i can't get along without a linux replacement of at all):

Jasc Paint Shop Pro 7(or 8) - a pro graphic editor
(i've seen GIMP screenshots, it might just do!)
Animation Shop (part of Jasc above)
3D GameStudio - A4(or A5)* - i make indie games
- includes a 3D model and mesh studio
- includes a scripting language
- supports D3D and OpenGL, on top of DirectX8
- includes texture editing and animation
- includes constructive solid geometry world editor
- includes a matrix-style terrain rasterizer
- includes a vector graphic editor
- includes avi movie and multi-format textures
- supports portals,bsp,color/dynamic lites,shading,
alpha-blend,skylayers,weatherfx,3dsmax-plugins
(* - will be a bitch to find, but can use multi-apps)

Music composer app for my wife who makes music in wav
format on the computer and records to cd from it!
(she is a GODDESS in my eyes, AND a MANSON-ite!)

PPS: oh yeah, i just brought windows back to the c: drive from the grave (good thing i'm a tekkie) and can only get online in windows with my cable modem. i have @Home service and i think i saw somewhere in the mandrake.com site about being able to configure something to make it work in linux! i'd be screwed if i couldn't get online for help with this (just another reason i need windows, damn you, bill gates!)

anyway, i think i may be able to get the cable modem service working if AT&T doesn't jack me 'round (not that they ever have.)
 
Old 04-15-2001, 03:08 PM   #4
webtoe
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Talking

ok that hard drive thing sounds as though it should work. but you needn;t split the d drive into pieces since linux can just as easily read fat32 as it can read ext2fs (although the linux filesytem is better :-) ) depends if you can be arsed to mess around with it or not. also if it is all a fat32 system then you can look at the files you have worked on in linux on your win setup (so if you can;t get the cable modem going then you can work on pics etc in linux wit gimp and then email them or ftp them to you web host etc from win). i suggest formatting the second hard disk first with windows then using the mandrake hard drake tool to create the linux partition.

as to the installation of the above you will have to do a bit of hard drake hacking so i would go for either the custom or the expert install (i havent really tried mandrake much but i think that that is the choices). i think it is the expert one you might have to be careful with since it will ask you a lot more than the easier one. it can be daunting sometimes.

neway, with harddrake use it to split the first hard drive /dev/hda into the two pieces (giving linux about 2 - 3 gig (mandrake would need this to have full install and swap space. slakware needs just over a gig for full and swap)).
on the first disk you tell hard drake to make a 'native' partition (leaving enough space to amke a 'swap'. the native partition should have a mount point of / . on your second drive (depending on how you choose to config it), if doing the split linux and win option then you need to tell linux to mount this partition to /home (to make the entire disk for home directories [i think this would be best, just make sure you have everything that you store here. programs will be stored to /usr/local/bin probably and you can choose this but if something gets screwed and you need to reinstall you system may get screwed])

for making an entire win thing im not sure if you can choose it in hard drake but if not just make sure that you have formatted it in win first. then late on in the install you can choose to have that windows partition mounted at startup.

hope that has covered everything. i went quite detailed since i didn;t know quite what experiance you have in linux (you sound like a bit of a win guru but this may be your first linux install so).

Alex

P.S. the gimp is a bloody good image program able to compete with any commercial program but there is also the corel jobbies (which i think you have to pay for and require wine to be installed).
as for that game/modeling thingy there is the superb blender 2.0 which i have heard alot about. obviously though us linux people can;t do things with direct x (and to be quite honest opengl isn't brilliant [we have the mesa libs to replace it instead])
 
Old 04-15-2001, 05:02 PM   #5
rabidundead
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Talking

thnx! if your curious about that studio thingy

http://www.conitec.com

also will try that 3 gig part on c:

have oem version of win ME so must copy it to d: to do what you said then copy back into new fat32 part of c:

in the process of slimming win to cut time. no frills.

yes, more win guru. never actually got to use linux yet

is hard drake part of install prog or an after install item, cuz i can't get into linux to use it if it is the latter.

got decent idea what the mounting stuff means. based on my pre-windoze exp.

also can i install packages to d: during install prog or must i wait until afterward, and if the latter will there be some way to config them or is it auto-config like? (cuz i don't know how to if i have to, yet!)

got any links to mesa info? need to check it out soon, time for pre-production is almost up and will soon start committing to a design path (ie language, libs, and platform dependencies).

talk to you soon webtoe! thnx

anyone else out there? or am i in a vaccuum, and webtoe just happenned to get sucked in?

not to discount webtoe, i'm doing great just with you.

later!
 
Old 04-16-2001, 08:28 AM   #6
webtoe
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hard drake is the wizzy hard ware config that mandrake comes with and it is used at installation time to find and config your hardware and also to sort your partitions out (that part of the program is called disk drake)

and don;t worry bout mounting thingy. there has been tons of people asking in these forums at the moment so there are lots or answers to different problems here.

yes you can choose where you install the pakages to (it should ask you before you choose what pakages you want to install). it'll let you just stick the /usr directory on the d: drive which would be most of the programs, their docs and source code. when doing your partitions you might have to split your d: drive so that there is a partition for /usr/ and for /home/ (if you want your home directory there).

in short yes
it all depends how you want your filesystem laid out.

http://www.mesa3d.org/ is the official website for the mesa graphics library. it is still a work in progress but is stable and very good (from what i hear). there is also a load of the specs that are useful for programmers et al. plus mailing list and links to some other sites. if you need more just search google, the computer users friend :-)

and the reason i always seem to be here first must be because everyone else is out working whereas im on my school holiday (plus i live in england so wake several hours before alot of people here so can get to the boards first)

Alex

P.S. cheers for the link, looks cool!


 
Old 04-16-2001, 12:52 PM   #7
rabidundead
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Cool

hey, that crystal space beta looks alright, and will probably do very well in a future project dealing in isometrics, since they're incorporating an iso-engine into the cs engine. can't wait for the MazeD environ to get out of beta. mesa looks inticing, still no posts at conitec 4 me, though. maybe they're windoze snobby about linux users trying to get conitec to port the studio? i've seen a lot of stuff on that subject at the forum! might be enough pressure to start that ball rolling...

anyway, hey you signed your name to that last post? if it is alex, how funny! my son's name is alexander, we call him xander. named after alexander the great of macedonia. having fun talking with you. seem very likeable. my name is ray, by the way. live in st.louis,missouri,usa. got a wife, sara, the best! and i make crpgs on the side of my job with southwestern bell broadband (SBC) as a tech support agent.

i'm at work, so haven't got to test out your advice. left my machine copying back win to the c: and will get around to the mandrake install tonight. sounds like i'll be free of that pesky windoze soon. it seems like everything i needed to find in linux apps is within my reach. sounds like the end of the road for me and ol' bill.

catch ya later, webtoe (alex?)
later
 
Old 04-16-2001, 05:16 PM   #8
webtoe
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well ray unless you haven't noticed ive put my name at the end of every post here :-)
i like the name alexander, but im named sort of after my grandad who's middle name is alex (family tradition to name son after middle name of father).
and from where im from his name would be shortened to sandy (what my grandad calls me sometimes [he's scottish]).

that link you gave me was cool, im a bit of a poor programmer at the moment and have always thought it cool to be able to do 3d modelling/game creation but my linux box in my room doesn;t have x running yet (need to download latest version and only got pokey little 56k modem running very slowly so never can be bothered). shame that prog is so much for the commercial version ($199 is a bit below my 40 allowance). ne'ermind, someday ill get round to getting blender going.

best regards to your wife and i hope you had a nice easter

later
Alex

P.S.it's always a good feeling when you don't need to worry bout a hidden liscence taking away your freedom
P.P.S. wheneve you need help drop us a line
P.P.P.S. one last tip, http://www.rpmfind.com . can be a godsend when your looking for dependencies. just type in the file you're missing (the rpm manager will tell you) and it will tell you and give you the rpm package you need to get your program working.
 
Old 04-18-2001, 06:15 PM   #9
noel
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Post Now one of the reasons why....

I hadn't earlier responded to this thread was because I really didn't get it-You see there's no reason why anything running an Cel700 shouldn't see a second hard drive as far as I can tell,and yes,ezbios is to upgrade a bios,and that usually applies to legacy systems like 486 and Pentium I_s.
Anyhow-Did you ever try changing the following-
a:The drive jumpers
b:the IDE cable
c:removing the jumpers altogether for the cable-select option?
Yes sometimes switching the cable connections works out fine.It really depends on the drive,and Western Digital should have a cable select mode I believe,which is in fact jumperless,otherwise which sets it as a slave.Remember to use auto settings in your bios to detect the drives at first-That means just what it says;'auto'.NO settings of cyl/hds/sec are present.If DMA is on turn it off.If it is off,turn it on.If you have any settings in your bios that allow configuration of min/max cylinders,set it low or turn it off,or use the bios'default setting,whichever it is.The only partition you need to worry about is the one windows is on-Unless it's one big partition your're talking about.In that case,I'd back up all my good stuff-And by that I mean only files and any programs you cannot replace,NOT the entire OS nor any of its system or config files nor any installed device files.If you've a burner all the better.If not,and you can get the bios to see the second drive,whether as primary slave or second master or whatever[disconnect the CDRom if you have to],drag and drop
your stuff or use xcopy from dos-mode.Be sure to create the
appropriate directories as you need them. Once you've backed up important data-yes,take the pleasure of FORMATTING THE HARD DRIVE AND BLOWING WINDOWS TO KINGDOM COME!Go back into fdisk and then create reasonably sized paritions -Use the smaller of the two drives;since you've got the space your win partition shouldn't be more than 1500mb.If you want,make a second extended win-In anycase,according to how linux arranges things,your root native should be hda 5 or 6-Otherwise you may not get access
to your dos partitions.Install windows first,then linux,since windows will overwrite LILO and since also the disk druid gives you more control.I know this is a lot,but for guru and newbie alike,it's as much as I've been through at least.Hope it helps.Peace.
 
  


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