How to run old software that uses old libraries on a new distribution?
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Thank you very much for interesting comments. Reading all these comments and trying some options out, I have made following conclusions:
- Setting up VM just to run few older apps that you need is an overkill (for now).
Odd, I find that the easiest and fastest solution. I suppose it is a matter of experience.
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- The appimage is a great package utility that is underappreciated (I didn't know about appimage before this post). The appimage is a very elegant packaging/container utility that create self sufficient single file container. It is very easy to create appimage container from existing binaries. The appimage is completely distribution agnostic. I strongly encourage anyone to try some apps from the appimage depository (over 1200 apps ready to use). The only complain, we should make this standard more popular.
It is a solution that is elegant in concept, but there are drawbacks. Building the one you need is often best done in a container or virtual machine so that you can build to the requirement without worrying about conflicting packages. Also of note: there are actually several such formats and you want to pick the one that will serve your purpose best: which implies an interesting learning curve. If you pick this solution I will be interested in hearing how that works out for you!
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- If one is not happy with any existing container utilities (and there are couple of them). One can create their own DIY container using “chroot jail”. I have created simple script that grab all application specific file & copy them into container, after that you can use loop (or fuse) option to create single file partition. It is not as elegant as appimage, but it works great.
This is actually a variation of the container solution I mentioned earlier.
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In conclusion the second option is the best option.
Following comments are less relevant to the main subject, it is just venting of my frustration; It is unfortunate that Linux distributions suffer from LDT (Linux Dependencies Terror) syndrome. As an example, new debian (bullseye) has dropped substantial number of old packages. It is hard to blame them, old package (beside security issues) use old resources that may brake new systems. I blame the programmers with computer science background. They have continues quest for a high level of abstraction, which lead to usage of unnecessary large number of dependencies that in combination to little attention to standards, easily bloat the software, introduce hard to trace bugs and frequently break the system (I have many examples). It is a long tradition of opened source community to not to care abut the standards. There is no cure for that. Partial remedy is to use containers and in acute situation reach for the VM solution.
Static compilation would make life easier in one way, while also embedding the security issues and flaws of old versions into the executable and making the package larger without improving the product. Blaming the programmers, designers, and coders for using the most appropriate solution to avoid those issues is pointless. IF you want a static compiled image, pull down the source and compile it yourself. Seriously, that might be the best solution for your specific case!
Thank you for help. Since, I'm familiar QEMU/KVM, I'll start with that. It would be nice if older debian 86x images would be available somewhere ready to use.
Install jigdo-file and navigate in the terminal to the directory you want your DVD/CD to land, then as user run command: jigdo-lite.
Right click on a .jigdo link of the Debian disk you want to create, copy the link location and paste it at the jigdo-lite prompt when it asks for a .jigdo URL. Afrer it will ask for a mirror, the mirror to use is: http://archive.debian.org/debian
It will ask a few more questions regarding resuming an already started build or if you have your own package repo etc. Just hit enter if it don't apply, then watch it put together your "Debian de jour" ISO.
I have never had money for VMware or a need for Xen.
Same here. however, that only applies to VMWare Workstation. VMWare Player is free, and for home users you have every feature you need to run Debian Potato....or whatever. U can build em, download off the net and run them etc.
EDIT: To install in Linux, ensure build-essentials and kernel headers are installed.
Get the source and Compile it against the new libraries. If it won't compile then fix it first.
This really should be the ideal answer. If you are going to run an app you might as well update it to current requirements. I totally support this (assuming one has the knowledge of how. i do not. still learning)
To make these posts useful for people that want to run legacy software a on new computers (for whatever reason); here is my summary:
- The best choice is to setup the container and put all legacy resources in this container. There are quite a few options, but my personal favorite is Appimage. Appimage creates single file that can be run w/o root access – no installation needed. There is a nice how to guide that shows how to package the legacy (or not) application from the binaries.
- If Appimage (or similar) will not work, there is always VM option. There are many engines to choose from; the most popular is QEMU/KVM. If you choose QEMU check the Docs & WiKi here.
- If you use Debian, “Brains” has posted (THANX!!) links to legacy Debian images (that you'll need to setup VM). Pls. Check “Brains” post in this thread. You can pull legacy libraries using apt-get. The oldest one that Debian still holds is “jessie” (Debian 8). Also, you can check other “Debian-like” depositories.
That is my take out on the subject. Other topics mentioned in this thread, like “should we use legacy software” or “computer science is good or bad for computers” or “is static compilation good or bed for humanity?”. These topics are very important, but not relevant to the subject.
Thank you for help.
There are many engines to choose from; the most popular is QEMU/KVM. If you choose QEMU check the Docs & WiKi here.
For running Linux VMs, QEMU I find is great, but it broke my Windows 95 VMWare image that I converted to QEMU 'bovine' image. And when I installed Windows 95 native in QEMU it was still broke. Appeared to be too much work to get it running properly.
VMWare runs every version of non-dos Windows gracefully, I have a VM of every one of them. It's the only reason I would install VMWare in Linux, because Windows runs nice and looks great with today's resolutions.
That's my take on 'Engine' of choice, you want to run a Windows VM, use VMWare, for linux use QEMU. Linux OS's can handle both installed at the same time.
EDIT: Gnome Boxes is garbage in my opinion. I back up my operating systems (and break em' without sweat because I do), images are much smaller with all user data in the "DATA" drive.
Gnome Boxes refuses to work with a vm that's not in it's specified directory "in the OS". Great big thumbs down, all my VM's are on the data drive.
Snap flatpak or appimage would my route. They are self contained so it's quite perfect for that usage I think. No need to run a whole vm for a single application. Docker is another alternative.
Portable static build is another option, although based on a bit of research I've done, it's not easy to create them.
This really should be the ideal answer. If you are going to run an app you might as well update it to current requirements. I totally support this (assuming one has the knowledge of how. i do not. still learning)
First, you have to have programming skills to do that. Many Linux users are not programmers.
Second, even if you are a programmer, the package may have been developed using a programming language that no longer exists (rare, but possible) or you may have to learn a newer version of the programming language used to create the program. Updating the program, if doable, could turn into a time-consuming process.
Finally, if one does decide to update the program and is successful, don't forget that by FOSS standards you are required to contribute your changes.
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