Anyone know how to track stolen laptops? This cannot be software based since that would be removed by formatting the harddisk. I am interested in finding a hardware thingie that could be installed on the computer.

Is here a way to find the mac address of a computer? What if that computer enters my website, could I with php find the mac address and the ip-address?

Thanks

Having thought about this for about 30 secs, it would seem to be trouble to impliment anything like that in a useful way.

What you need is some method of recording ownership of a laptop, not on the hdd. This could be done in software, but stored in an e-prom or nvram. The same thing would need to identify that the laptop has been stolen, and that the laptop is connected to the internet.

Compared to all this, it should be simple to write something small that would just read the current IP etc and email it to you.

Alternatively, if your laptop has a definate signiture that won't change with the HDD or BIOS, then you could release a virus whose task is to locate the lapop. If it finds itself infecting the stolen laptop it emails it's location to you. Otherwise it is benign. (Apart from gobbling bandwidth I suppose...) Perhaps working like a tapeworm...

Why? Do you have a specific case in mind?

You can maybe get the MAC adress (and IP adress) by using a client-side JAVA application (maybe applet..). Same applies for HDD ID (fewer people know how to change this)
You may have to use a signed application (otherwise the security layers of java will forbid this).
If you can't do it normally, you can try to exploit a flaw in java to execute arbitrary code. You would have to guess the version of java, the OS and depending on the results run this code or that code.
http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=245711

The problem: Its easy to change a MAC adress or to change the network adapter..
The second problem: The IP can be in a private network so 192.168.1.1 will not really help you. The webbrowser can also run in a virtual machine so your lost tracking the laptop

php will not help you in this task, MAC is impossible to get and IP is easily hidden.

"What you need is some method of recording ownership of a laptop, not on the hdd. This could be done in software, but stored in an e-prom or nvram. The same thing would need to identify that the laptop has been stolen, and that the laptop is connected to the internet."

This is pretty much what I was thinking about. Most people steal laptops and sell them after(?) formatting the harddrive and don´t bother to change the network-card since it is integrated. Now I am not capable to write software like the one mentioned above and was hoping that something like this existed on the world-market. Gadgets for spies.
By the way I lost 6 laptops so I am very interested in finding a way of pre and post actions.

DajomU

Such software does exist. I saw a MS program a few years ago that dialed out to your "base" home phone. The idea being that you could then record and track the number dialed from. I heard that some of the bigger manufacturers (? IBM) were going to implement such a system in the bios of all their laptops. The idea being that the serial number is embeded in the laptop and can be indentified easily should it turn up in raids etc. The manufacturer would log the owners name against the serial number. At one stage Intel procs could be indentified via serial numbers in MS.

dajomu: when you quote somebody - either change the colour of the quote or use the bv codes to stick it in a quote box. The little quote-marks are too easily missed on the first reading.You'll find that extra security will just mean more steps in the stripping process. The weakness in any security like you're contemplating will be that you have to be able to on-sell your laptop yourself at some point... or just let someone else use it occasionally. This means it must be possible to get around the security... To lose one laptop is a misfortune, to lose six smacks of carelessness

How do you use your laptop that you keep getting them stolen?

You could render laptops hard to use by reorganising the boot order (hdd only) and setting the bios password... especially if the bios is the kind that won't allow a boot without it. But that wouldn't stop the laptop being stolen in the first place.

Checklist - see how many you hit...
1. think of your laptop as the valuable property it is. Imagine what you would do if it were a gold watch or a diamond knecklace.

2. Stay in contact with the laptop as much as possible - if it is in your hand, nobody is stealing it. If you put it down, rest it against some part of your anatomy so you can always feel it.

3. When you must part with your laptop, leave it in a populated and well lit area under lock and key. Do not leave it on the seat of your car, lock it in the boot.

4. Conceal it's nature if you must leave it. Do not keep it in a laptop bag - there are many ordinary bags which will protect your laptop and make it more easily portable without looking like it.

5. when you carry it - use a bag with a shoulder strap - and wear the strap across your body so the supporting shoulder is on the opposite side as the laptop. The bag shoyuld ride on your hip, not your back, and sit under your arm where your fist can close on the bottom.

6. At home - lock it away. It dosn't have to be in a safe - a stout cupboard will do. Also leave a $20 note on top of it. An opportunity theif in a hurry will likely grab the 20 and leave the machine.

7. Use the cheapest laptop that will suit your needs. Preferably second hand. (Cover it with stickers and decals too.)

8. label the cover and the chassis visibly and invisibly. A visible label should tell the perp that it is invisibly labelled. Police (NZ) often run expencive items under ultraviolet in case someone has used this method. You can engrave the case - removing an engraved label leaves an obvious mark which reduces the resale value.

The label dosn't have to be formal - a fancy design or an image could be used. Anything that personalises the laptop makes it less desirable to proffessional theives.

9. Set the BIOS password - after changing the boot order. You may want to advertise this on the outside or not.

10. superglue the hdd into it's slot.

Hi Simon Bridge,

not crossing the line of being a friendly LQ user, might I say that you are one PARANOID laptop user. I love all your points. I wouldn't keep my lappie in the boot of my car but I do find most of the points worth seconding. (New word I guess! For "I second that")

But points no: 6 and 10 might just make you the best stand up comedian

Cheers!

Sorry about your loss dajomu.

Since I recently purchased a laptop myself, I find this thread interesting.

FYI for those of us on "the other side of the pond" the boot of your car is the trunk (darn, or was it the glovebox, whatever just keep it out of sight if it's in your car.)

As for identifying details of the hardware, like the MAC address or HDD ID or CPU ID, these things aren't as easily visible. The network card's MAC address resides at a part of the networking process where it isn't detectable outside the locan LAN it's on. The only way to get this type of information is to trick the system into checking it's information and then sending the details out. As for the private IP, getting the client to find it's public-facing IP is simple, it's done by dynamic DNS updating services all the time using whatsmyip.org style scripts.

They also sell "lowjack style" tracking software that can call home if your laptop is stolen. Unfortuantly this software resides in the installed OS and stolen laptops are likely to be reformatted, especially if the login is locked down. There are locking mechanisms for laptops too, but busting most of these is fairly trivial so all they are is a way to keep honest people honest.

It sure would be nice if there were a way for the thing to call home and report it's physical address, but there just isn't a way that's not easily circumvented.

While Simon Bridge's ideas are useful, most of us aren't this paranoid. Still, the idea of a visible etching, or any visibly permanant changes, will make yours less of a target. If you want to make permenant markings, I would suggest something easily visible that lets any would-be theif know yours is marked and then at least one additional hidden marking, such as an identifying number etched somewhere inside the guts. After all, it's a lot harder to "fence" a stolen laptop with the name, "Darin" etched across the entire lid

One thing to consider when marking a system is what you use. While it may seem great to mark your SSN or driver's license or phone number in a system, doing so nowadays creates the potential for identity theft to follow soon after the physical theft of your system.

I remember something about using RFID tags hidden inside, but that was only for governament laptops that have so called important stuff in them.

RFID is short range but dificult to detect, maybe you can get GPS transmiter if you have a bulky laptop.

Anyway I have never known anyone who lost 6 laptops. You seem to have interesting stuff in your laptop. I would insure the laptop.

LinuxLala: ta nicely ... actually points 6 and 8 have been used to good effect. I've been in charge of a business safe and the business was broken into several times. First time the safe door was forced and the inner boxes heavily damaged... all the cash gone. So I adopted a different policy: this was the old kind with a key to the heavy outer door and a combination to a smaller safe inside. I kept the key in the shop fridge (icebox) so a determined search would find it. I kept $20 between the two doors. Next time, the safe was intact and the 20 was gone. (This was a pharmacy (drugstore) so these days I'd probably leave a small bag of anonymouse white pills there as well... placebos labelled "amphetamine".) So it works. It's similar to leaving your car unlocked if it isn't worth stealing and you don't want theives to break a windows discovering this.

The label is quite serious.
The point of labels in UV-florescent ink is that the theif cannot easily remove them or cover them up. Your laptop will still be stolen though - you need the theif to realise in advance that the laptop is marked in a way that will create extra work - and hopefully steal the next laptop instead. It's like poisonous animals having bright colours (colors) or those stick things locking folks car (automobile) steering wheels being bright red, warning labels on houses "security alarm" or "armed responce"... etc... the emphasis is on discouraging theft rather than catching the perpetrator... like fencing the cliff.

However, if you intend to onsell your machine later (or give it away) this will limit the kind of markings you employ.

Paranoid? Well - there's this guy whose had 6 laptops stolen... at University (College) the most stolen item from student flats was laptops. There were well organised groups stealing them as well as opportunity thieves.

Keeping it with you was the best way to still have it at the end of the week. making it unusable just meant it would be found later in a pond. Labelling and locking were the next things, since you couldn't keep it with you all the time - you'd get a reputation... (it should be noted that most laptops were stolen from the library: folk would leave them there while they rushed to a lecture.)

In other words, everything suggested has been "feild tested" and proved successful. If you manage three out of the ten, you're doing well. If you are doing 6 or more and still find your laptops get stolen then there is a serious problem and you should consider video surveillance.

Personally: I've never had a laptop stolen.

I've worked in high schools which have laptops as part of their stationary requirement. There, the favorite was to steal the geeks laptops and use them as Rugby balls (rugby is a violent version of American Football - bigger ball, no helmets, no padding, spikes on the boots, invented in England, look it up). I've seen kids handcuff themselves to their machines on the grounds that it's difficult to steal that way without getting caught.


Aside: You'll have noticed that I've been translating for the yanks around us (and those folk who learned English from yanks). In NZ - "the pond" is the Pacific Ocean (In the UK, it's the Atlantic.) I was (and still am) aware that the yanks keep their luggage in the trunk and the engine under the hood (where it can be stolen, since a hood is also a theif...) Here a "hood" is what you wear on your head when it rains. In the UK, "trunks" are male bathing suits, but in NZ these are called "toggs" and "trunks" belong exclusively to elephants (there are boxes called "trunks", but always qualified as in "steamer trunk" etc.)

Darin: thanx man - on your advice I have now engraved "DARIN" in large (freindly) letters on the lid. Cool.

Use Data Dot paint, it's heavily used in the marine industry but it'd work on anything.

Whoooo... I have never lost a laptop. And I don't know about college/school/dorm etc. but the best place to have it taken away is Airports and Railway Stations in India. You can also lose them if you step out of your cab to buy a pack of cigrettes Fortunately for me, I don't smoke and I have my own car.

About keeping it in the boot: Sure we always discuss that to curb car thefts don't leave anything lucrativ behind in your car, like an expensive cell phone or dvd player or whatever. But I always lug around my laptop no matter where I am going.

But I guess you are right. Prevention is better than ...

And damn those thieves.

Great and I'll be sending the coppers your way to retrive my new...erm stolen... lappy that is clearly marked with my name

6 laptops stolen, that indicates some sort of major security issue aside from what's marked on your laptop. I like the idea of UV markings, although I was thinking more of engraving something in a place under the casing. Still, something visible is a good idea, large markings or even a giant sticker on your laptop will help identify it as unique. I would advise against "secure alarm" type labels though, there is something wrong with going through the trouble of hiding a unique identifier only to give directions to it in plain site.

I love the translations though, it's as if we speak different languages. Yes, some of us "Yanks" know what rugby is and that you think our "American" football players wear too much padding and call the game the wrong thing, since your version of football is something we call soccer. We also call swimming suits trunks, but we still keep our luggage in truns and have trunks in the back of our cars for storage, since only the engine belongs in front under the hood. That is the hood like the thing you wear on your head (it is on the front of the car after all) as opposed to 'the hood' which is the neighborhood where the bad kids claim to be from.

You don't give directions to it ... but you have to let people know it's there... or where is the deterrent to theft. remember: you don't want your laptop stolen. Security measures that are only apparent after the fact are next to useless.

A label is only a deterrent to theft if the prospective theif knows about it. Knowing about it's existance is not the same as knowing where it is.

Once stolen, though, a hidden label dosn't help much. You have to find the laptop first, and gain access to it in order to demonstrate that the label is there.

A proffessional won't be deterred by a hidden label at any rate - it will deter the theif who wants your laptop for themselves. (A proffessional theif will onsell the laptop as quickly as possible anyway.) The prosepect of a hidden label could be a deterrent to buying a stolen (or suspect) laptop though. (Since external notices are to be removed, this will only be effective where the practise is widespread. Though the presence of an erasure mark could fuel suspicion: how does the buyer know all the labels have been removed?)

The external label is the strongest deterrent. It'll be harder to onsell an obviously defaced laptop - and you wouldn't get as much for it. Given the choice, a pro would go for the clean one.

In NZ, "football" = "rugby". "Soccer" is "football" pretty much everywhere except USA, NZ, and OZ. Just don't get any kiwis or ozzies talking about sport.

I've heard that the Brits and Yanks are a people divided by a common language However, the US version of English is clearly the language of the internet and international trade. It's the closest we've got to an international language so far.

I've heard a story:
Two kiwis are walking along when they meet a lost backpacker. He's Belgian and he tries to ask for direction. The kiwis don't understand him so he tries differet languages:
Parlez vous Francais? nope.
Sprechen sie Deutsch? nope.
Habla Espaniol? nope.

finally he gives up in disgust and walks off.

One kiwi turns to the other and says: "Perhaps we should learn another language eh?" But his mate replies: "Nah! That fella knew four and look what good it did him."

Of course, dragging the post kicking and screaming back on topic, us native English speakers have to be careful when we deal with natives of other languages. The thought patterns are different and we have to take care to make sure we know where they are coming from. This is als why it is a good idea not to use a joke "location" in your profile. (Or make sure the joke also says where you are from... "Hi, I'm Jake and this is Martha, we're Baptists from Nowhere Tennessee, may the baby Lord Jesus bless your little hearts, amen." (I'm not sure if they've been held under water too long or not long enough...)