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Old 08-04-2005, 11:26 AM   #1
InvisibleSniper
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Why Use Linux?


I heard that you can learn a lot from Linux, but what I don't know is what can you learn? I mean I know basically how to do everything in Windows, what more could I learn in Linux and is there a point, can I gain employment from learning about it?

And what version should I use to learn stuff, because most versions don't support my SATA HDD's, unfortunately?
 
Old 08-04-2005, 11:32 AM   #2
bruno buys
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**I mean I know basically how to do everything in Windows, what more could I learn in Linux and is there a point, can I gain employment from learning about it?**


Linux is a different computing paradigm. Some people report doing much more, faster and more reliably with linux. Maybe or may not be your case. Depends on what you do with a computer.

Employment is definately a plus. Specially if you are a IT professional.


**And what version should I use to learn stuff, because most versions don't support my SATA HDD's, unfortunately?***


From my knowledge, Iīve seen sata disks being well recognized under Debian sarge, knoppix and kanotix. I didnīt research this comprehensively, but I doubt these are the only ones. Try a search at www.linuxquestions.org/hcl
 
Old 08-04-2005, 11:34 AM   #3
Boffy
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Linux will help you get a better understanding about how the core of computer systems work. Its an interesting mental exercise if nothing else. You will gain experience in programming if you really want to learn.

I'm not sure about jobs but since linux is used on a lot of servers all around the world I would suggest that there are plenty of jobs you can get.

I'm not certain but i think this post belongs in general. You should have a look at old posts there. I'm sure the answer to some or all of your questions lie in the LQ archives.
 
Old 08-04-2005, 04:47 PM   #4
Komakino
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Re: Why Use Linux?

Quote:
Originally posted by InvisibleSniper
I heard that you can learn a lot from Linux, but what I don't know is what can you learn? I mean I know basically how to do everything in Windows, what more could I learn in Linux and is there a point, can I gain employment from learning about it?

And what version should I use to learn stuff, because most versions don't support my SATA HDD's, unfortunately?
No, no, you know how to accomplish everything in windows, not how to do it. That's the difference. With linux you really know what's going on, you don't just click and have it happen.
 
Old 08-04-2005, 05:34 PM   #5
Pete M
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InvisibleSniper

Quote:
I mean I know basically how to do everything in Windows, what more could I learn in Linux and is there a point
That's just what Bill like's you to think, ever tried downloading the source code for Windows kernel ? you can with Linux

Pete
 
Old 08-04-2005, 06:09 PM   #6
tuxrules
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Quote:
I heard that you can learn a lot from Linux, but what I don't know is what can you learn?
You would only be able to know why to learn and actually learn about something if you actually do/use it. It is same as asking...I've heard great things about driving a car, but what can be gained from learning to drive.

Dive into Linux and find out yourself...and I don't want to sound mean.

Just a thought...if you post this in the windows forum.
Quote:
I heard that you can learn a lot from Windows, but what I don't know is what can you learn?



Tux,
 
Old 08-04-2005, 06:44 PM   #7
IsaacKuo
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I have no idea what employment prospects look like in Australia, but I assume that a lot of servers run *nix in Australia also.

So, if you're looking for employment related stuff you can learn in Linux, one thing is learning about *nix system administration and/or programming. You'll want to play around with multiple users and groups, familiarizing yourself with user and group level security features.

Another big area is web development. Mainly, the nice thing about Linux is that it's an affordable way for anyone to run a full featured web server (including servlets and cgi scripts). Even if you do your web development on a Windows box, you may need to test the actual web page on a *nix server.
 
Old 08-05-2005, 02:41 AM   #8
InvisibleSniper
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I still have a problem on installing debian. I have downloaded it, burnt it to DVD ISO, booted into debian, tried to install it and it started loading the required system files then it stopped installing at 'Sd_Mod' for 'SCSI disk support'. So I gathered it was something wrong with my HDD's, someone on another section of this forum recommended a website for me to read about SATA HDD support but that website to me was in a foreign language(very technical).

So basically I just don't know where to go from here, Debian is what I would really like to install, I just don't know how.

Last edited by InvisibleSniper; 08-05-2005 at 02:43 AM.
 
Old 08-05-2005, 10:46 AM   #9
IsaacKuo
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I'm not sure exactly how to do it, but you can manually choose which kernel to use at some point. By default, the Debian stable installer uses 2.4.something, whereas there's an option to use 2.6.something. The latter has better support for newer hardware, including SATA drives.

You'd do well to post a new topic about this under the "Debian" section. Include a description of what hardware is in your computer.
 
Old 08-05-2005, 12:09 PM   #10
sundialsvcs
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I'm a firm believer in getting to know as many operating-environments as you can; and doing so at more than a cursory level. So far, I've done work on (lessee...) HP-3000, VAX/VMS, VM/SP, VM/HPO, VM/XA, OS/MVS, DOS/VSE, MPE, BSD, USCD Pascal, Linux, MacOS, OS/X, and of course five flavors of DOS/Windows over the years. Not bad, I think. And if ever a position came along that involved some other environment, I would not be afraid to jump in, knowing that with my skills I could quickly rise to the surface and swim... and build a boat, climb aboard, and set sail.

You need to be able to do that, too! And Linux happens to be a superbly most-excellent way to do that. It's a complete operating-system, right there in your hands, with a computer that you can very easily dedicate to the task of learning it. (By that I mean, not your Windows machine.) And literally hundreds of thousands of servers out there worldwide are using it every day. On your own system, you can be root, you can be a god, you can be mortal, and you can be anything in-between.

What you do is... jump in. The first task might be to figure out why your system isn't recognizing your disks. Using your fully-functioning machine to provide access to the Internet, plunge-in and figure it out. Once you develop the skill of doing that reliably, that skill is immensely marketable. (You do, of course, have to learn how to sell those skills, but every salesman masters that art pretty quickly.)

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-05-2005 at 12:11 PM.
 
Old 08-05-2005, 03:57 PM   #11
Half_Elf
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I believe you don't know much about computer if you always sticked with micro$oft stuff. Doing something really hard is usually quite easy in a micro$oft world, and _no_ it's not a good thing if you are a tech/IT professional.

As example, it reminds me when I took my first network course at university few years ago... We were installing a DNS server on Windoze 2000. The course was like : "ok, now start the wizard... fill, these these these label, then click next, then next again and...". At the end of the course most student was feeling like they could manage a DNS server... but this is wrong! Most of them didn't even had an idea how a DNS server was working, they couldn't told you was what a "PTR" entry, nor what was an autority zone...

In Micro$oft world, everything is too easy. It's great when it works all alone or if you don't need to understand "how" it is working (i.e. if you are a secretary using the computer to type text, not an IT student), but it doesn't give you a deep understanding of what's going on "inside". What you learn from micro$oft are the tools, not what they are doing "inside" your computer.
On the other hand, if you suceed mastering linux, you will have a good understanding of what's really going on, because you will have to get your hand dirty. As example, installing a DNS server in linux will force you to see and edit numberous of config files about zone, you will learn the internal functionning of a DNS server (no choice if you want it to work). Even then, if you still use windoze, you will have a better understanding of what your computer is doing (like : "aaaaah so this wizard's screen will set up the PTR entry", the kind of technical understanding you wouldn't had before).

Linux is pure knowledge. Windoze is quick and easy job. It's 2 worlds. And i'm not saying anything about how easiest it is to fix up a bug in Linux.
 
Old 08-05-2005, 04:20 PM   #12
jacatone
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I'm also proficient in WinXP and am slowly teaching myself Mandrake 10.1 with KDE. I must say than when I work with Linux then go back to Windows, Windows just seems slow and crude. Once you work with Linux you'll learn to like it's sophistication and speed.

I download a bunch of chm and pdf ebooks on Linux into XP, then mounted and copied them into Linux. That way you can use them as tutorials and learn at your own pace while your in Linux.
 
Old 08-05-2005, 05:22 PM   #13
bigjohn
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Quote:
Originally posted by InvisibleSniper
I still have a problem on installing debian. I have downloaded it, burnt it to DVD ISO, booted into debian, tried to install it and it started loading the required system files then it stopped installing at 'Sd_Mod' for 'SCSI disk support'. So I gathered it was something wrong with my HDD's, someone on another section of this forum recommended a website for me to read about SATA HDD support but that website to me was in a foreign language(very technical).

So basically I just don't know where to go from here, Debian is what I would really like to install, I just don't know how.
hahahahahahah! Sorry that sounds mean and shitty!

It's not meant to be. It's just that if it's "proper" debian that you're trying to install, as opposed to a derivative like Ubuntu, then my friend, you may well find that the learning curve is just a little steeper than you may have been led to believe.

don't get me wrong, debian is very good, the available packages for it are manifold, but it does require extensive hardware knowledge, so as to allow for accurate/correct manual configuration.

There is a core of debian obsessives at my LUG, they wouldn't entertain anything else, but they also happen to be very experienced Unix/Linux IT professionals.

It would be my suggestion that you try Ubuntu, which if you don't mind a bit of a wait, you don't even have to download, they'll send you the disc(s) free of charge - just go to their site and follow the link for "shippit free". You get a live version, which I suspect would be enough to test your hardware for possible compatibility issues etc, and the actual install disc. If you learned that, then worked out about changing a couple of files so that you use "proper" debian sources to obtain any packages/upgrades etc. Or you could do similar with Knoppix, now their hardware detection is excellent.

The other option would be to try one of the mainstream commercial distros, which do tend to be "RPM" based (Redhat Package Manager). Something like SuSE, Mandriva, Fedora etc. would probably be current and support your hard drive(s?). Plus the learning curve is just a little less mountainous.


Oh, and you mention visiting a site and your experience was that it was written in either technonerd or servergeek? Well, welcome to the linux world. I hate, and I mean HATE most linux documentation, with an absolute passion. Most of it, will contain some real pearls of wisdom, but the writing style is usually total rubbish. Though you end up putting up with it, because most of the contributors are "IT wallahs" and not professional technical authors. Even some of the open books are an excellent resource, but you still need that certain "mindset" to get your head round them. Even the great and good of the LINUX DOCUMENTATION PROJECT aren't as helpful as they might be. They have gathered together a huge amount of stuff, and put it into a standardised format, but to my mind that's also not as helpful as it could be. If you can't understand the information provided, whats the point of providing it in the first place </soapbox>

If you don't mind a bit of a learning curve, and can follow documentation religiously, then maybe gentoo is what you should try. There install documentation is excellent - even a dummy like me managed to install it. I understand that it supports SATA hard drives as well. Sure you'd have to spend some time reading up. Plus, I would suggest that you explored a "stage 3" install and initially used "GRP" packages to get the system up and running. The only criticism that most people have of gentoo, is that because it's based on the "portage" package management system (similar to the one used by FreeBSD I believe), it gets the packages downloaded and then it compiles them - for the specific setting you have chosen, for your system. If "tuning" is your thing, you can learn to tune your system to the "nth" degree, and the packages will be compiled specifically for that.


Right ho! 'nuff said.

Good luck.

regards

John
 
Old 08-05-2005, 05:42 PM   #14
dudeman41465
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Learning

Linux noob freshly migrated from Windows here.

Before Linux I knew pretty much how to do anything I wanted to do in Windows from send system messages to traceroute IP addresses, to view who is leeching copies of my shared folders, etc.

Since I have moved to Linux I have learned a lot more about what actually happens when I execute a command. Having to manually install Java via the Konsole was a good experience for me. I've also learned a lot about Unix user permission levels and things by playing with Linux. I will admit that at this point in time I can still do more with Windows, but Linux comes with a buttload of free software that can do everything Microsoft software can and more. I worked for the IT at MSU once and their e-mail server and their web server are both Linux based. I've also heard that it's impossible to get a virus on Linux because all viruses are written to destroy Windows systems, and when your computer doesn't have a C:\Windows directory the virus is pretty much null and void.

My point. Even if in the end you decide you like Windows better, I would still recommend installing Linux on a second hard drive just to play around with it and get the feel of it, because if you go into a computer oriented field of work you will inevitably have to deal with it at some point or another.
 
Old 08-07-2005, 02:01 AM   #15
InvisibleSniper
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Hi again,

Thanks for all your help. Also to IsaacKuo your option was the first one I tried and it worked, thus I have now completed the installation.

Though now it seems that every time I choose a password I can not use it. I use a password with a combination of letters, numbers and the charicters where you hold the ALT button and use the num pad to type them.

So basically I get to the Prompt screen and it says login, I type my login name hit enter. Prompts me to type my password so I do and hit enter. Then I always get "error bad login".

What now?
 
  


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