LinuxQuestions.org
Latest LQ Deal: Latest LQ Deals
Home Forums Tutorials Articles Register
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Hardware
User Name
Password
Linux - Hardware This forum is for Hardware issues.
Having trouble installing a piece of hardware? Want to know if that peripheral is compatible with Linux?

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 02-01-2015, 12:41 PM   #1
nbritton
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2013
Location: Dubuque, IA
Distribution: Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Mac OS X, Ubuntu, Fedora, FreeBSD
Posts: 89

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
How many bad sectors is too many?


How many bad sectors is too many for a modern 2TB SAS drive in an enterprise environment?
 
Old 02-01-2015, 12:53 PM   #2
veerain
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Earth bound to Helios
Distribution: Custom
Posts: 2,524

Rep: Reputation: 319Reputation: 319Reputation: 319Reputation: 319
Usually a HDD has some extra space to accommodate few bad sectors. You should better check hard drive health with a tool.

For ide/sata we use smartmontools. But for scsi/sas I don't know of one. May be smartmontools can be used for them also.

May be this page helps.
 
Old 02-02-2015, 09:21 AM   #3
Soadyheid
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Near Edinburgh, Scotland
Distribution: Cinnamon Mint 20.1 (Laptop) and 20.2 (Desktop)
Posts: 1,672

Rep: Reputation: 486Reputation: 486Reputation: 486Reputation: 486Reputation: 486
Disks usually have two spare alternate cylinders to be used when re-vectoring bad blocks. (Well, they did in the "Bad Ol' Days!) You'd need to know the disk's geometry to get an idea of how many sectors/blocks are available to allow you to gauge what is "too many"

A cylinder will be the number of sectors on one platter surface X the number of heads. I reckon a 1Tb disk is going to have a rather large number. I don't know what the manufacturing process is like now, (glass platters, etc?) but even a "new" disk had a bad block file as they couldn't guarantee a 100% defect free disk way back in nineteen oatcake.
So, if your disk shows a large number (thousands for a 1Tb) it doesn't mean it's got to be replaced... If the bad block count is increasing rapidly though, it does!

I'm sure there are folk out there with a greater knowledge of modern disks and practices than I have who will correct this if it no longer holds true.

Play Bonny!

 
Old 02-02-2015, 04:25 PM   #4
metaschima
Senior Member
 
Registered: Dec 2013
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 1,982

Rep: Reputation: 492Reputation: 492Reputation: 492Reputation: 492Reputation: 492
SMART will tell you how many is too many on average.
 
Old 02-02-2015, 08:17 PM   #5
jefro
Moderator
 
Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,985

Rep: Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626
While I'd be tempted to always agree that smart is the normal answer. Since the question involves enterprise level then I'd say that you are the person that says what is too many. Your use, your level of data security and the use of this disk determines what is called for. It could be that 4 is too many.
 
Old 02-03-2015, 04:21 AM   #6
Soadyheid
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Near Edinburgh, Scotland
Distribution: Cinnamon Mint 20.1 (Laptop) and 20.2 (Desktop)
Posts: 1,672

Rep: Reputation: 486Reputation: 486Reputation: 486Reputation: 486Reputation: 486
Quote:
Since the question involves enterprise level then I'd say that you are the person that says what is too many. Your use, your level of data security and the use of this disk determines what is called for. It could be that 4 is too many.
Having worked in an Enterprise environment, we'd generally never replace a disk which had logged a few bad sectors. We always monitored it for about a week, max, to see if the bad sector count increased, and if so at what sort of rate. The disks are designed to re-vector bad sectors to maintain data integrity. If it starts clocking an increasing number of faulty sectors then by all means replace it.

For one or two bad sectors, you also have to take into consideration the cost of the replacement disk (negligible) but more importantly the risk involved in its replacement weighed against leaving it on monitor. Is it a single "Hot Swap" disk or do you have to pull a tray of say ten disks to access the one you want to change?

Replacing a disk invariably involves going through a change management process which involves Change Boards, Software Analysts (OS & Apps), DBAs, Hardware engineers, etc. So in general the fact that the disk has logged a couple of bad blocks which it is designed to handle transparently has to be weighed against the risk of disturbing the environment it "lives" in; the other disks in the array on the same SCSI bus, the array controller, the state of the DR (Disaster Recovery) partner system, the system load over a set period (You'd replace the disk when it's "quiet") and even in some cases, the weather, I'm thinking Utility Companies who don't want maintenance happening when they're coping with storm force winds and having to cope with disruption to their distribution networks. Financial Services restrict maintenance in line with the demand on their businesses, Month End, Holidays, "Black Friday" events, etc.

At the end of the day it's all down to Risk.

Play Bonny!

 
Old 02-03-2015, 05:04 PM   #7
jefro
Moderator
 
Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,985

Rep: Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626
I say that the OP is still the best person to answer this. I have a lot of servers and systems that I'd never change a disk until it burns up. There are a very few that I'd change it on the spot.
 
Old 02-03-2015, 10:43 PM   #8
nbritton
Member
 
Registered: Jun 2013
Location: Dubuque, IA
Distribution: Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Mac OS X, Ubuntu, Fedora, FreeBSD
Posts: 89

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
I tested 9,072 2TB SAS drives and only 286 (3.15%) had sector errors reported by /sbin/badblocks. Of the drives with sector errors the number of bad sectors typically ranged from 4 (Q1) to 16 (Q3), with a median of 8. Values above 25 were statistical outliers, meaning they were more than 3 standard deviations off the bell curve.

Click image for larger version

Name:	Screen Shot 2015-02-03 at 10.39.26 PM.png
Views:	269
Size:	46.3 KB
ID:	17509
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 02-04-2015, 06:08 AM   #9
Soadyheid
Senior Member
 
Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Near Edinburgh, Scotland
Distribution: Cinnamon Mint 20.1 (Laptop) and 20.2 (Desktop)
Posts: 1,672

Rep: Reputation: 486Reputation: 486Reputation: 486Reputation: 486Reputation: 486
@nbritton

Thanks for the stats, things certainly seem to have moved on since my coal fired, steam powered, chain driven 2.1 and 4.3Gb SCSI disks!

Play Bonny!

 
Old 02-04-2015, 03:39 PM   #10
jefro
Moderator
 
Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 21,985

Rep: Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626Reputation: 3626
You need to use or at least look at smart ratio's for that model. Use OEM's test suite for full diags and tests. Then you need to decide if you can live with the potential data loss.

When it doubt, change it out.
 
  


Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
LXer: Check Hard drive for bad sectors or bad blocks in linux LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 08-11-2014 08:00 AM
LXer: Check Hard drive for bad sectors or bad blocks in linux LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 08-10-2014 12:21 AM
re-allocated sectors count shows 2 bad sectors, in Ubuntu 10.04 disk utility james2b Linux - Hardware 4 10-12-2010 11:16 PM
does it mean bad sectors? thehungrycoder Linux - Hardware 3 10-19-2009 05:52 AM
Bad sectors, what to do with them? SuperDude123 Linux - Hardware 4 02-15-2009 07:36 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - Hardware

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:16 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration