can an install break my IDE controler?

evans0409 · 07-20-2007, 01:42 PM

Hi and a disclaimer: my question is the direct result of a very, very stupid action of my own. Having said that, if anyone's is still willing to read and perhaps offer some advice, I would be more than grateful!

OK, I have run FC4 and then FC 5 for two wonderful years on my HP Pavilion ZD8230US (P4, 1G ram, 100GB HDD, DVDRW, the full details are available at http://www.humboldt.edu/~te8/misc/hpzd8230us.html) I'll include the lspci output here for convenience:

Code:

# lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 915G/P/GV/GL/PL/910GL Processor to I/O Controller (rev 04)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 915G/P/GV/GL/PL/910GL PCI Express Root Port (rev 04)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) PCI Express Port 1 (rev 03)
00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) USB UHCI #1 (rev 03)
00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) USB UHCI #2 (rev 03)
00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) USB UHCI #3 (rev 03)
00:1d.3 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) USB UHCI #4 (rev 03)
00:1d.7 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) USB2 EHCI Controller (rev 03)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev d3)
00:1e.2 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) AC'97 Audio Controller (rev 03)
00:1e.3 Modem: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) AC'97 Modem Controller (rev 03)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FR (ICH6/ICH6R) LPC Interface Bridge (rev 03)
00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) IDE Controller (rev 03)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) SMBus Controller (rev 03)
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc M24 1P [Radeon Mobility X600]
0b:00.0 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments Texas Instruments PCIxx21/x515 Cardbus Controller
0b:00.2 FireWire (IEEE 1394): Texas Instruments Texas Instruments OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller
0b:00.3 Unknown mass storage controller: Texas Instruments Texas Instruments PCIxx21 Integrated FlashMedia Controller
0b:00.4 Class 0805: Texas Instruments Texas Instruments PCI6411, PCI6421, PCI6611, PCI6621, PCI7411, PCI7421, PCI7611, PCI7621 Secure Digital (SD)
0b:02.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL-8139/8139C/8139C+ (rev 10)
0b:03.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation: Unknown device 4318 (rev 02)

I decided to upgrade to FC7 (rather than fresh install). I tested this process on a similar machine and all went well so I did it. Now, the horrible stupid error: I used the 64 bit DVD to upgrade on mistake! I realized this too late, and i let the installer finish. It booted and X would not start. I then booted with the correct 32 bit DVD and "upgraded", The installer indicated that all went well, but I could not boot. I do not have the exact kernel error message, but google searches indicated that the problem was about 32 bit kernels and 64 bit libraries or something. In short, my carelessness hosed my system.

OK, so that should be it, right? Reinstall from scratch, right? Of course I had made a full back up, so aside from some massive tweaking that would have to be redone, no biggy.

WELL NO. When I tried to boot the FC7 DVD, no can do! My IDE controller seems to be fried as my machine BIOS no longer sees HDD or the DVD. Both make sound at power up (ie the DVD spins, the HDD makes a noise), but the machine passes them over and tries to network boot - the last option in the boot order.

I know this is a long post, but here is finally the question: could my mistake have hosed a component on the motherboard (like the IDE)? I can't verify it, but I think the drives are OK or they both went out at the same time? I have 2.5" to USB cable for data dump, but it can't access this HDD. I do not know if the HDD is bad or if it just is not compatible with my cable.

Any experts out there that might have a few wise words for me?

Thanks in advance.

lazlow · 07-20-2007, 01:59 PM

It could be that you just knocked the cables loose. I would check that first.

The ide controller is hardware, so no the F7 install did not break it. Check your voltages in the bios. All the rebooting may have shoved your PSU over the edge. I would also unplug each drive independent of the other and try a reboot. If one is fried it may be blocking the other one.

evans0409 · 07-20-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazlow

It could be that you just knocked the cables loose. I would check that first.

The ide controller is hardware, so no the F7 install did not break it. Check your voltages in the bios. All the rebooting may have shoved your PSU over the edge. I would also unplug each drive independent of the other and try a reboot. If one is fried it may be blocking the other one.

Thanks lazlow. I have tried booting with the HDD out and also with the DVDRW out hoping to "reset" something. No luck. It is highly suspicious that I cannot access the HDD with my 2.5" to USB cable as it is a fairly standard drive (Toshiba 1031 series).

I am not sure how to check voltages in BIOS, sorry and I am also not sure what PSU is. I am very grateful for your help! Thank you.

evans0409 · 07-20-2007, 02:53 PM

OK, a google or 2 later and I'm educated. The BIOS on this HP seems very limited, and no where does it report voltages. It reports CPU speed and memory (3400 mhz and 1G resp.) "PSU" - power supply unit. I have no way to test this. I guess it's computer shop time.

One google dig turned up HP manual and the trouble shhot flow charts say to reset the CMOS in case you can't boot off of any drive. Trouble is, it is major surgery to get to the little battery that you remove to do the CMOS reset.

Am I crazy to try it? (I live in a remote area and will have to ship my computer to the "big city" to get it repaired.)

salasi · 07-20-2007, 03:37 PM

i) The only hardware that is easy to break with software is a CRT monitor (by setting frequencies that the monitor can't cope with). Some other things are possible, but a bit difficult. So, you probably haven't broken it by installing, although it could be a coincidence and it has broken at the same time.

ii) assuming that you can get into the bios, check that the settings look ok.

iii) check that the boot order is sensible (sometimes called 'boot sequency'!)

iv) if there is a bios option something like 'return to factory defaults' try that

Good luck!

lazlow · 07-20-2007, 04:18 PM

There are usually two pins that you can just short rather than pull the battery (usually).

I would definitely try the cmos.

You might rethink sending it in to the shop, if it is off warranty. If the ide controller is shot, they mostly likely will have to replace the motherboard. When you add shipping, repairs etc, and compare this to the price of a new laptop, you may be better off that way (considering the advances in technology in the last couple of years). I would talk to the repair guys and get a range of what the repair will cost including shipping. Nobody wants to hear this. I just had to replace a motherboard and cpu becuase the cpu fried. It was cheaper to switch to a AM2 motherboard and cpu, than to just replace the 939 cpu. It is just the way of it.

Good Luck

Lazlow

evans0409 · 07-20-2007, 05:24 PM

Thanks again salasi and lazlow (hungarian, by the way? kusonom szepen!) I have verified the boot sequence and reset the BIOS. I am afraid resetting the CMOS is my last hope. This machine was ~2000K (US$) and is just 22 months old so letting it go will be a hard decision. I certainly respect your advice lazlow, and I am afraid you're most definitely correct about replacement. There's a shop in Hayward California that specializes in repairing motherboard components without replacing the entire boards. I may try to get a quote from them, but I will pay shipping both ways no matter what.

Thanks again for your generous community support. I hope I can repay the favor someday.

Best, TE

Junior Hacker · 07-21-2007, 01:48 AM

The IDE and SATA controllers are part of the North/South bridge. The main chip set on the motherboard. Something tells me it's not as bad is this thread is making it out to be. I would definitely download the motherboard documentation from ASUS or whoever makes it, usually it's ASUS with HP. You can usually dig that information from HP's site for your model. Or just look for the name/model # in between the expansion slots
Then I would read it carefully to find what all the bios settings represent and what parameters they should be set at. Actually, I've had to re-set bios many times because of bios passwords, and I don't get carried away without downloading the manual first. Some mobos require a jumper to be moved position for a couple minutes, some it's remove the battery for a couple. I would also try another battery if some bios settings prove to be out.
There is also a hardware controller integrated into the hard drives and optical drives, firmware is sort of the middle man, which can be downloaded from HP also, but it's not likely there would be a firmware issue on both at the same time. I'd be pointing the finger at the bios, which can also be flashed with an improved newer version from HP's site also. That won't set the setting properly though, but worth reading what the updated flash add or fixes, as most OEM motherboards do put out an updated bios after bugs show up shortly after they roll off the production line.

evans0409 · 07-21-2007, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior Hacker

The IDE and SATA controllers are part of the North/South bridge. The main chip set on the motherboard. Something tells me it's not as bad is this thread is making it out to be.

Thanks JH, and man I hope you're right!

Quote:

I would definitely download the motherboard documentation from ASUS or whoever makes it, usually it's ASUS with HP. You can usually dig that information from HP's site for your model. Or just look for the name/model # in between the expansion slots
Then I would read it carefully to find what all the bios settings represent and what parameters they should be set at.

This BIOS is really weak in terms of what infor you can get.

Quote:

Actually, I've had to re-set bios many times because of bios passwords, and I don't get carried away without downloading the manual first. Some mobos require a jumper to be moved position for a couple minutes, some it's remove the battery for a couple. I would also try another battery if some bios settings prove to be out.

I was able to remove the RTC battery last night and I know I reset the CMOS as it stated so when I rebooted after I put it all back together (it was quite an adventure getting into this mobo!) The same problem though: BIOS skips DVD and HDD at boot and goes directly to network for boot image.

Quote:

There is also a hardware controller integrated into the hard drives and optical drives, firmware is sort of the middle man, which can be downloaded from HP also, but it's not likely there would be a firmware issue on both at the same time. I'd be pointing the finger at the bios, which can also be flashed with an improved newer version from HP's site also. That won't set the setting properly though, but worth reading what the updated flash add or fixes, as most OEM motherboards do put out an updated bios after bugs show up shortly after they roll off the production line.

I have never flashed anything. Can I do it without my DVD? Or , more to the point, I can't really boot this machine right now as I have no network boot set up, so can I flash it? I am still considering sending it to a shop in Hayward that works on components instead of replacing the whole system board. Repair costs under $500 will be acceptable as I can't replace with an equivalent new system for anywhere near that.

One last thing. Anybody find it suspicious that my HDD (toshiba mk1031gas, 100G, 4200RPM) won't work with my 2.5" to USB cable? I know the cable is good. I think maybe I need to jumper the drive to slave to use the cable. I have no jumpers. Can I use the jumpers from a 3.5" seagate I have?

As always, thanks to the community for the support!

TE

lazlow · 07-21-2007, 12:51 PM

As long as they physically fit, jumpers are jumpers. You just need something that will conduct between the right two pins without shorting against anything else.

evans0409 · 08-03-2007, 10:28 AM

I tried every home fix I could: powered down, removed and replaced both drives (individually and together). I even tore the whole machine apart to take out the machine clock battery and reset the CMOS! (a true learning experience btw. i was thankful to put it back together having not broken anything else. I removed a 1 lb. dust bunny while I was there and the machine is quieter now.) I don't think (at least I hope not) that it was going to be fixed with any power cycle.

Now a plug for a great shop: I sent the machine to Johnson Computer in Hayward, California, USA. They confirmed that I had indeed smoked my IDE controller (best guess is that all the rebooting in my install disaster heated up the machine too much?), they repaired the component only (i.e. they did not swap out the entire motherboard for big bucks). All in all it was $285 for the repair and $40 for shipping ($20 each way). The machine was gone a total of 5 days, including shipping and a weekend! I wount hesitate to use them in the future!

Well, this is a lesson in extended warranty for laptops, but I have escaped this time!