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Old 07-22-2013, 04:43 AM   #31
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
Brought my friends computer to my house to dis-essemble the entire desktop.

He wants to compleatly purchase a new mobo, processor, power supply, graphics card....the whole nine yards.
Its possible (almost likely) that the HP Pavilion Media Center m1160n will have a 'non-standard' motherboard or rear panel size. If it does that means that if you want to put a standard mITX, mATX or ATX motherboard in there you will need to do a lot of chopping on the case, place and die-tap new mounting holes, etc..

Mount hole pattern and sizes can be found here-

http://www.silverstonetek.com/techta...a&tid=wh11_008

There are printable versions of the mounting hole patterns if you look around.

But is really not worth the bother for 95%+ of users. To basicly chuck the entire system apart from the case isnt even that cost effective, you may be able to get more for the system as it stands than it would cost to get a nice new case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
It's an old HP Tower 1/2 the size of most of the towers that are on the market now-
Lots and lots of really nice looking mATX and mITX cases around, if you or someone else wants a small case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
I suggested a AMD processor and a Radeon graphics card because I wasn't 100% certain that Nvidia Optimus and the bumblebee-project: bumblebee 3.2.1 would work successfully- I have spoken to others that sware by Nvidia but I don't want to run the risk of helping a friend and only later to find that he becomes irritated with my cousel and the performace of the new system he is building.
Optimus isn't something you have to worry about with desktops..in most cases at least. There was a move by nVidia to have optimus on desktops (offically it was 'Synergy' though there were manufactuers using instead 'opitmus for desktops') but it never gto very far at all. I've only ever seen it on some big manufacturer (HP, etc.) small form factor desktops.

CPU wont matter much, If its being used as a media centre. nVidia VDPAU (nVidia hardware video decoding) is generally better than XvBA (AMD hardware video decoding). AMD is getting better, but I'd probably still get a nVidia card for media centre use.

If its just goinjg to be hooked up to a TV and/or used to stream video or audio, you wont need a powerful expensive CPU. The old junkbox that I use for my media centre is a single core AMD 64 3000+/1GB DDR1/nVidia 8400GS and with VDPAU it plays 720p prefectly, no stutters, dropped frames, etc.. I think it should do 1080p just as well, but I haven't tried, I dont have any 1080p content to test with. BTW, do not get a 8400GS, they are old, can have various different GPUs...G210 is a better choice, they cost about the same as 8400GS and always have the 'best' GPU that can sometimes be found in the 8400GS. I'd porbably evn get something a newer than a G210 depending on the budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
Not sure if a Gigabyte or Asus mobo is what I should suggest.
Not sure what wireless NIC to suggest either-
Even more choices than just gigabyte or asus.

Considered a powerline LAN adapter? I dont like wireless networking myself, so maybe that is my anti-wireless bias coming out....
 
Old 07-22-2013, 11:52 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John VV View Post
on a desktop Optimus should not be an issue .Unless you are putting a laptop "chip" on the mobo and not using a full 3d card

if you are using a laptop chip then go with AMD/ATI

In my opinion the Nouveau driver dose not work
i have two machines with two very different nvidia cards and they over heat because the nouveau driver dose not turn on the fan

Now the nvidia.run driver , i have not had any issues with that .
Thanks; John VV
 
Old 07-22-2013, 12:13 PM   #33
Ztcoracat
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Cascade:

Thanks for all of the good information.

I will have my friend read all that you have posted because I'd hate to see him waste time and or going ahead with un-necessary spending--
I'll jump online and find the mATX and mITX cases so he has an idea.

If it were me but it's not I would just build a brand new system-

Quote:
AMD is getting better, but I'd probably still get a nVidia card for media centre use.
Advice taken-
Thanks for the warning on the 8400GS:-

How would I know how many watts the power supply should be for the Nvidia card that he chooses?
He's a Playstation Gamer and he may want to play PS3 games on his new build.
 
Old 07-22-2013, 02:33 PM   #34
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
Thanks for the warning on the 8400GS:-

How would I know how many watts the power supply should be for the Nvidia card that he chooses?
He's a Playstation Gamer and he may want to play PS3 games on his new build.
Depends on the video card used. For GT cards, its not going to matter much, they have fairly low power draw. I havent seen nVidia suggest more than 350 watts for any of the GT series cards, and even the 350 watt suggestion is mainly because of people using nasty 'yum cha' power supplies. The most power hungry of teh GT cards is still going to draw 75 watts or les absolute maximum (as they have no external power connectors, and 75 watts in the max that can be delivered over the PCIe bus)

Big 'gamers' cards, GTX series, haev much higher power supply requirements. They arent a great idea in a ITX or mATX case though, besides having a huge power draw they also output a lot of heat.

I had a look at the PS3 emulator site-

Quote:
System requirements

Following is a short list of system requirements for running PS3Emulator:

Minimum(low fps)

Windows/Mac OS
* CPU: Dual Core 2.0GHz or equivalent processor
* RAM: 2 GB
* HDD: 10+ GB(mainly for ROMS)

Recommended(will play 50/60 fps)

* OS: Windows 7/Vista/XP/Mac OS (32 or 64 bit)
* CPU: Quad-core Intel or AMD CPU
* RAM: 4 GB
* HDD: 10+ GB
* Videocard: 1 GB Graphics Memory
http://ps3.emulatorx.info/system-requirements.html

'1 GB' doesnt really say that much, and pretty much all current cvads are 1GB or more.

If you can, try running it on some other system(s) so you can get an idea of performance. If you can get away with a GT card, it makes the system cheaper, coolera and quiter..and its quite possible that a GT card like a GT630 will have enough power to run the PS3 emulator well.
 
Old 07-22-2013, 11:11 PM   #35
Ztcoracat
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This is what I am concerned about--

Code:
besides having a huge power draw they also output a lot of heat.
That old power supply is 250 watts. If he puts a 350 or 550 Corsair (what he's looking at) inside of that small tower that could be a heating issue. That's doesn't seem good at all-
The width of the back of the tower is 7 inches.
Would a newer power supply fit?

The old graphics card is a Nvidia Ge Force FX5200XT AGP.

Quote:
If you can, try running it on some other system(s) so you can get an idea of performance
I could try running it on my desktop system; however, won't the new card over-ride my on-board graphics?
 
Old 07-23-2013, 02:44 AM   #36
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
This is what I am concerned about--

Code:
besides having a huge power draw they also output a lot of heat.
That old power supply is 250 watts. If he puts a 350 or 550 Corsair (what he's looking at) inside of that small tower that could be a heating issue. That's doesn't seem good at all-
The width of the back of the tower is 7 inches.
Would a newer power supply fit?
Its impossible to tell if a new power supply will fit from just the width, sorry.

It it did fit it would output less heat than the old HP power supply. Computer PSUs dont draw as much as they can output, they only use as much power as is needed by the system. + inefficiency.

In general, older PSUs have lower efficiency than newer ones. The PSUs in those system tend to be quite inefficienct.

If the PSU is 60% efficienct, you will need 100 watts to deliver 60 watts to the system and 40 watts for the new PSU will be converted to heat.

So for a realistic max draw for the system, say 100watts, the old 60% efficiency PSU would need about 170 watts with 70 watts being created as heat. For the new 80% efficiency PSU you would only need 125 watts with only 25 watts being created as heat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
The old graphics card is a Nvidia Ge Force FX5200XT AGP.
If its being replaced, that doesnt really matter.

You could try running the PS3 emulator on a system with the FX5200, and it might even work at least with some games. The FX series are old, old old, and any current video card you will find will be faster. The FX5200 was slow even when it was current, and video card technology marches on.

For example, what used to be a 'top of the line' gamers card like the GT88800 with a TDP (thermal design power, basicly the max possible power draw) of 125watts is slower than a current GT640 with a TDP of 75 watts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
I could try running it on my desktop system; however, won't the new card over-ride my on-board graphics?
Ummm...new card? Why put put the FX5200 in your system?

I cant recall what system you are runing, but if its in any way new it wont have a AGP slot. Something in any way curent would give you a better idea of what is required, the FX seires are so old its hard to compare them with any current video cards.

Last edited by cascade9; 07-23-2013 at 03:45 AM.
 
Old 07-23-2013, 01:38 PM   #37
Ztcoracat
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Quote:
Ummm...new card? Why put put the FX5200 in your system?
You meant try the Emulator on another system for me to get an idea of performacne- (post #34)
I misunderstood--

I'll find out today what mobo, processor, power supply and etc. he is going to purchase or at least consider--


Thank you for the information on watts, efficiency and how that works now.
Sounds like much better materials are used today than when he orginally purchased that Media Center in 2007--

Looking here at power supplies-
http://www.corsair.com/power-supply-units.html

Last edited by Ztcoracat; 07-23-2013 at 01:52 PM.
 
Old 07-25-2013, 08:14 PM   #38
Ztcoracat
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Took everything out of the old HP case.

The mobo was close to impossible to get out and my friend had to practically break that corner of the board to get it out.
After a few min's of pulling on the corner it finally gave way.
Unfortunately my friend says; "he is done with it, he has had enough"

Here is a pin like screw that was holding that particular corner of the board in place:
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...tml?sort=3&o=0
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...ml?sort=3&o=25

The Power Supply was near to impossible to get out;as well. HP designed it so that you had to take off the front casing and take out the drives to move the power supply forward.
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...ml?sort=3&o=26

Having said that; there isn't anything more I could help him with-
BTW, I did mention before the disesembly that it would be better to just do a fresh build.

If anything I have learned a lot and a fresh build is the best practice.

Special thanks to John VV and Cascade9!

Last edited by Ztcoracat; 07-25-2013 at 08:17 PM.
 
Old 07-25-2013, 08:50 PM   #39
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Additional pic's from dis-esembly--

http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...ml?sort=3&o=25
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...ml?sort=3&o=28

The hdd was attatched to a metal casing of some sort that I have never seen--
I wondering if these hardware parts could be sold?
And if so where would one begin?
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...ml?sort=3&o=26
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...DDBay.jpg.html

Sorry it's a blurry pic.
http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/Ul...ml?sort=3&o=27

Last edited by Ztcoracat; 07-25-2013 at 09:02 PM.
 
Old 07-26-2013, 07:26 AM   #40
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
nVidia VDPAU (nVidia hardware video decoding) is generally better than XvBA (AMD hardware video decoding). AMD is getting better, but I'd probably still get a nVidia card for media centre use.
Newer releases of the open source radeon drivers also use VDPAU for video acceleration and with the 3.11 kernel line those GPUs finally get dynamic power management, but if you use the proprietary drivers Nvidia is the way to go.

Forget about emulating a PS3 on a PC, I have yet to find an emulator that is not a scam to get likes on Facebook and that actually works. It may still need some years for that, I doubt that you can emulate a 3.2 GHz Cell CPU with 6 SPEs reasonably fast even on modern PC hardware, not even thinking about the rest of the hardware.
 
Old 07-26-2013, 03:08 PM   #41
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Thanks TobiSGD!
 
Old 07-27-2013, 06:40 AM   #42
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ztcoracat View Post
The hdd was attatched to a metal casing of some sort that I have never seen--
I wondering if these hardware parts could be sold?
And if so where would one begin?
You could try selling some of the box hardware on ebay or similar sites, but I'd doubt you'd get any takers in most cases.

Aboutt he only time yuo can sell things like that is in cases where there is a possible expansion from instralling hardware from anotehr case (eg, if there is enough space to install another HDD but there is no way to get it to bolt in without a 2nd HDD caddy, and the 2 caddys are the same)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Newer releases of the open source radeon drivers also use VDPAU for video acceleration and with the 3.11 kernel line those GPUs finally get dynamic power management, but if you use the proprietary drivers Nvidia is the way to go.

Forget about emulating a PS3 on a PC, I have yet to find an emulator that is not a scam to get likes on Facebook and that actually works. It may still need some years for that, I doubt that you can emulate a 3.2 GHz Cell CPU with 6 SPEs reasonably fast even on modern PC hardware, not even thinking about the rest of the hardware.
I havent tried VDPAU with the radeon drivers, I should give it a try sometime.

Sorry that I didnt check the PS3 emulator better. You appear to be corect and there is no way to play a PS3 game with them currently, and probably for quite some time in the future.
 
Old 07-27-2013, 10:05 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
I havent tried VDPAU with the radeon drivers, I should give it a try sometime.
I tried to try it, but you need Mesa 9.2 for that and I wasn't yet able to get that working correctly on my Slackware systems. When I have more time I will definitely look more into that, but time is currently something that is not available here.
 
Old 07-27-2013, 11:57 AM   #44
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Having said that:
Quote:
You could try selling some of the box hardware on ebay or similar sites, but I'd doubt you'd get any takers in most cases.
I could give it a try on ebay and see if anything comes of it-

Thanks
 
  


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