"you can't just sit down install Linux and expect it to do something, work with it people! " (-from the Hardware forum.)
I heartily disagree with this attitude. I like, no, love Linux, and think a lot of the software is awesome, but no I don't want to work with it. You see, I have a life away from the computer, so I don't have time to be looking for a driver, or writing a script or configuring this that or the other to work better or just generally doing things TO my computer. I want to use Audacity to record my music, OpenOffice.org to print my lyrics, Lilypond to publish the sheet music, Aisle Riot to play Odessa solitaire, etc.

I refuse to have to "work with it"! There are more than enough people who work with it, in fact why haven't you gotten it right already? when you buy a chair do you want to work with it or do you want to just USE it? Do you want to pasteurize your milk yourself or do you want to just drink it? I know that there are people who love to work with Linux (I know, GNU/Linux)and I love that, but I don't think one should HAVE to work with Linux in order to use it.

"Linux User and Developer" is a British Linux mag, but the two groups mentioned will and are diverging. How many Firefox users are submitting code? Or OpenOffice.org users. When was the last time you personally added to the kernel code? Or KDE?

I'm not saying get rid of the shells or VIM/Emacs, but the comes a time when DIY is not in the best interest of the user. When I install Edubuntu on my Dell C521, I don't want to have to replace my Lexmark X5150 three in one printer just because it's not supported in Linux. Nor do I want to spend hours of time trying to get it to work with a DIY driver that sort of works, make DIYers happy because it's Open Source(!). Actually, your just letting the printer manufacturers make you do their homework for you.

If you using a non-open source printer I think it's O.K. if you use a non-open source driver. My monitor is running on a manufacturer's driver, which is fine with me as long as it works.

It's almost like Linux users would buy Yugos or some old junker so that they could get them to work, 'cause think af how much they would learn about cars in the process!

If you love working on your computer, COOL!!!!! Keep on! Just don't expect the whole world to feel the same way, and don't stand in the way of people don't. Having to work with their computer makes people feel stupid, and if you don't feeling stupid, why would they?

In fact what you're doing isn't working With, it's working On your computer. Do you buy a car to work on it, or to drive it? We need mechanics for our cars, but that doesn't mean every driver has to be a mechanic. Likewise we need programmers & sysadmins, but not every user has to be a programmer & sysadmin.

Do we want Linux on the desktop to be a cult or mainstream? I would like it to be mainstream, and with a few small changes it could be mainstream, but if the insistence on working ON your computer persists, it won't be, and that will be areal loss.

I don't want it to be mainstream. Like anything else that becomes "popular", it tends to wither away or turn into a huge piece of unmanageable poop.....

I'm happy with the way that it is right now.

The "new attitude" required for Linux use does not lie with Linux, but rather with the Windows people who want to convert.

Nice that after an apparently very limited exposure to Linux and a (very) few posts on LQ, you can now share with us the errors of our way.

What was the question again?

How many self-proclaimed *expert* Windows users sat down and mastered Windows within 30 minutes? 1 day? 1 week?

Why is it that the *expert* Windows user expects to install Linux and achieve the same self-proclaimed competence within seconds?

Save your attitude for your favourite OS. I'm happy with my attitude and those of the major contributors to this forum. If the rest of the world wants to wallow in its Windows proprietary shell, that suits me fine.

It's my computer, my time, and my life - I like having 100% control.

cheers,

I was thinking the same thing.

If it doesn't work for him, why use it and put the effort into this rant.

Let's see, getting a Slackware box up and running with everything needed to be productive takes maybe 1/2 a day for me. When I say productive I am taking about rolling a custom kernel, setting up a firewall, installing all the various apps, configuring it the way I want it to work and not the way the developer thinks it should work for me, etc.....

Setting up a new windows box takes about the same amount of time but when you consider the $$$ of the OS and the apps needed to be productive, you'll be broke. Not too mention that you can't customize it to your needs because of closed source. Don't forget about the bloat but you see that in some distro's too.

That's what I'm not happy about: ranting at LQ ninetynine percent of the time ends with "I refuse to change things: you have to".
If one wants to put some effort in, then put it into actually changing things.
Noticing flaws is good but improving things is better.

I think you make a good point, whatever distro becomes mainstream will likely suffer this fate. Luckily there is such a diversity of distros that I don't have to worry.

When I read your post it kind of makes me wonder why did you switch. You said that you don't want to get rid of your printer because it doesn't work with linux. Well I say someone did not do their homework first. You wouldn't go buy a piece of equipment for say windows vista only and think well why didn't it work on my windows 2000 box.

1. The developers work really hard trying to get things in linux to work even when the proprietary giants don't want to help. (However thanks to efforts from hp, IBM, Dell, Nvidia) for helping out now.

2. You can't always sit down and install windows and it magically works. The many times I can remember windows xp doesn't find all the drives so I have to locate them or use some third party tool to find what is missing or now I just boot up knoppix and do an lspci.

The point is no operating system just works right out of the box. As far as DIY again that is even the case on Windows. If you refuse to just work with it then go back to what did work for you.

I could care less if a windows user wants to try linux or not.

I'm a linux user, not a follower. LINUX FOR LIFE!!!

Well, I'm sold. Sorry lusers I'm going to buy a copy of Vista, a copy of Office, a firewall, some anti-spyware software, an ad-buster and a virus guard. And then spend a full day installing and grabbing updates. You stick to your free stuff that you can get working in a short time. I am off to productivity land!

Yeah, right. As the rest of you have said, Linux works the way we - the users, administrators and developers - like it. It didn't get to this point by being a Windows or Mac clone and I can't see it changing to the way those OSes do things any time soon.

I was very disappointed when I installed Fedora 10 beta and switched on my printer. There was a popup window saying something like: 'you switched on a printer: samsung ml2010. The device is ready to use' or something like that.

that's not how it's supposed to be...

Bah, that's not Linux. In my day we had to hand code our drivers just to turn the machine on in the snow and rain. I had to write my own text editor just to get to that point. Kids today, don't know you're born.

I think its funny that we are talking about "Linux" going mainstream and forgetting about the 400+ distributions. I think distros like Fedora, Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, and Mandrake (or is it Mandriva? never can tell...) are more likely to go mainstream. Distributions like Slackware, Debian, Gentoo, and LinuxFromScratch are very unlikely candidates for the mainstream use because people would have to work to set them up. I know that the society we live in is more driven towards things they don't have to put time into. Since the first distributions seem to be safer and more understood by "newbies", they are more likely to make it. Since there are very few people that start off with Slackware, Debian, Gentoo, or LFS, it shows they are a little harder for your average users coming from Windoze to deal with. If there was some top-secret facility where we raised an entire generation with the Linux operating system, it would be a different story altogether.

Hate to point this out, but that statement sums up why a lot of people used Linux and left it for Windows after a while. The more you tell people "back in the day", "it used to be harder", "you have it sooo much easier", "we had to...(insert statement describing hardship)", the more they will stay away from you and what you boast about.

You should use phrases like "yah, isn't it cool that Linux has support for that now?" or "we have a whole team dedicated to making a driver for your hardware".

Xavier, you are a really great mod, but I have to say, IMHO, I am a little disappointed with that attitude.