Why do so many distributions use KDE? It is very, very lame. GNOME is so much better! GNOME keeps getting better with every release, but KDE keeps getting worse.

Last time I tried it was version 3.2, and it was not all that bad, even though it was a total ripoff of GNOME. I just downloaded and tried out 4.3, though, and it is awful. Why would anybody use that?

What is the point of having KDE and GNOME? Once GNOME was already out, there wasn't any need to replace it with KDE. Plus, GNOME is from GNU and that means it is better just on face value. How can you trust KDE to run on your computer if it isn't even free software and you don't even know what it is doing to your hard disk?

Flamewar, ho!

LOL
I second the "KDE sucks!" as well
Gnome rocks no doubt

KDE is just too too much shit!

Personally, fluxbox is my fav, with Gnome being great for anyone who likes point&click

I hate on BOTH OF THEM!!!!!

I push XFCE!!!!!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Maybe we need a Newbies Anonymous forum? "Hi, I'm a newbie and I hate <insert uninformed diatribe here>".

I'm curious about these non-free version(s) of KDE, and where they're for sale and for how much $$$.

Is the OP implying that we're all using illegal free copies of KDE in all of our Linux OS's?

Sasha

Why don't they just create a forum called Flame War?
Aside from that, why would anybody use either KDE or GNOME?
KDE may be garbage but at least it's easier to install and doesn't create 50 bazillion needless dependencies as gnome does? Much like the very needless GConf! WHY!?!?!?!

While kde4 may suck because its all eyecandy and way too big a change from kde3.5.10 that actually was great. Gnome has always sucked, it is too simple and the options are hidden in the annoying gconf. The only good gnome is a yard gnome.

Flame on!

$apt-get install kde-full -s
The following NEW packages will be installed:
akonadi-server akregator ark blinken bomber bovo dolphin dragonplayer
gnupg-agent gnupg2 gwenview indi juk kaboom kaddressbook kalarm kalgebra
kalzium kalzium-data kamera kanagram kanjidic kapman kappfinder katomic
kbattleship kblackbox kblocks kbounce kbreakout kbruch kcalc kcharselect
kcolorchooser kcron kde-full kde-minimal kde-window-manager kdeadmin
kdeartwork kdeartwork-emoticons kdeartwork-style kdebase kdebase-bin
kdebase-data kdebase-runtime kdebase-runtime-data kdebase-workspace
kdebase-workspace-bin kdebase-workspace-data
kdebase-workspace-kgreet-plugins kdeedu kdeedu-kvtml-data kdegames
kdegames-card-data kdegames-mahjongg-data kdegraphics kdelibs-bin kdelibs5
kdelibs5-data kdemultimedia kdemultimedia-kio-plugins kdenetwork kdepasswd
kdepim kdepim-groupware kdepim-kresources kdepim-runtime
kdepim-strigi-plugins kdepim-wizards kdepimlibs-data kdepimlibs5
kdeplasma-addons kdesnake kdessh kdeutils kdewallpapers kdf kdiamond kfind
kfloppy kfourinline kgamma kgeography kgeography-data kget kgoldrunner kgpg
khangman kig killbots kiriki kiten kjots kjumpingcube kleopatra klettres
klettres-data klines klipper kmahjongg kmail kmines kmix kmplot knetwalk
knetworkconf knode knotes kolf kollision kolourpaint4 konqueror
konqueror-nsplugins konquest konsole konsolekalendar kontact kopete
korganizer kpackage kpat kpilot kppp krdc kreversi krfb kruler ksame kscd
kscreensaver kshisen ksirk ksnapshot kspaceduel ksquares kstars kstars-data
ksudoku ksysguard ksystemlog ktimer ktimetracker ktouch ktron ktuberling
kturtle kubrick kuser kwalletmanager kwordquiz kwrite libakonadiprivate1
libbluetooth3 libboost-program-options1.38.0 libcfitsio3 libcln6
libclucene0ldbl libdbd-mysql-perl libdbi-perl libexiv2-5 libfftw3-3 libgadu3
libgnokii4 libgpgme11 libgps18 libgsl0ldbl libkabcommon4 libkcddb4
libkdecorations4 libkdeedu4 libkdegames5 libkdepim4 libkephal4 libkexiv2-7
libkfontinst4 libkipi6 libkiten4 libkleo4 libknotificationitem-1-1 libkonq5
libkonq5-templates libkonqsidebarplugin4 libkontactinterfaces4 libkopete4
libkpgp4 libksane0 libkscreensaver5 libksgrd4 libksieve4 libkwineffects1
libkworkspace4 liblancelot0 libmarble4 libmeanwhile1 libmimelib4 libmsn0.1
libmysqlclient16 libnepomukquery4 libnepomukqueryclient4 libnet-daemon-perl
libofa0 libokularcore1 libopenbabel3 libotr2 libpcsclite1 libpisock9
libplasma-applet-system-monitor4 libplasma-geolocation-interface4 libplasma3
libplasmaclock4 libplrpc-perl libpolkit-qt0 libpoppler-qt4-3 libprocesscore4
libprocessui4 libpulse-mainloop-glib0 libqalculate4 libqca2 libqimageblitz4
libqt4-opengl libqt4-qt3support libqt4-sql-mysql libsolidcontrol4
libsolidcontrolifaces4 libsoprano4 libstreamanalyzer0 libstreams0
libstrigiqtdbusclient0 libtaskmanager4 libtunepimp5 libvncserver0
libweather-ion4 libxcb-shape0 libxcb-shm0 libxcb-xv0 libxine1 libxine1-bin
libxine1-console libxine1-ffmpeg libxine1-misc-plugins libxine1-plugins
libxine1-x libxklavier12 libxss1 lskat marble marble-data mysql-client-5.1
mysql-server mysql-server-5.1 okteta okular oxygen-icon-theme oxygencursors
parley parley-data phonon phonon-backend-xine plasma-dataengines-addons
plasma-dataengines-workspace plasma-desktopthemes-artwork
plasma-runners-addons plasma-scriptengine-superkaramba
plasma-widget-folderview plasma-widget-lancelot plasma-widgets-addons
plasma-widgets-workspace smartpm-core soprano-daemon step sweeper
systemsettings ttf-dustin ttf-sazanami-gothic ttf-sjfonts
0 upgraded, 276 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

$apt-get install gnome -s
The following NEW packages will be installed:
alacarte apache2-utils apache2.2-bin apache2.2-common app-install-data arj
avahi-daemon brasero brasero-common capplets-data cheese cli-common
deskbar-applet ekiga empathy eog epiphany-browser epiphany-browser-data
epiphany-extensions epiphany-gecko evince evolution evolution-common
evolution-data-server evolution-data-server-common evolution-exchange
evolution-plugins evolution-webcal fast-user-switch-applet file-roller
gcalctool gconf-defaults-service gconf-editor gdm gdm-themes gedit
gedit-common gedit-plugins ggzcore-bin gnome gnome-about gnome-app-install
gnome-applets gnome-applets-data gnome-backgrounds gnome-bluetooth
gnome-cards-data gnome-control-center gnome-core gnome-desktop-data
gnome-desktop-environment gnome-doc-utils gnome-games gnome-games-data
gnome-media gnome-media-common gnome-menus gnome-mime-data gnome-mount
gnome-netstatus-applet gnome-nettool gnome-panel gnome-panel-data
gnome-power-manager gnome-screensaver gnome-session gnome-session-bin
gnome-settings-daemon gnome-system-monitor gnome-system-tools gnome-terminal
gnome-terminal-data gnome-themes gnome-themes-extras gnome-user-guide
gnome-user-share gnome-utils gnome-volume-manager gnuchess
gstreamer0.10-alsa gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg gstreamer0.10-nice
gstreamer0.10-plugins-bad gstreamer0.10-plugins-base
gstreamer0.10-plugins-good gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-tools
gtk2-engines-pixbuf gucharmap guile-1.8-libs gvfs gvfs-backends gvfs-bin
hamster-applet iso-codes libapache2-mod-dnssd libapm1
libaprutil1-dbd-sqlite3 libaprutil1-ldap libart2.0-cil libass3
libavahi-core6 libavahi-glib1 libavahi-gobject0 libavahi-ui0 libbeagle1
libbluetooth3 libbonobo2-0 libbonobo2-common libbonoboui2-0
libbonoboui2-common libbrasero-media0 libcamel1.2-14 libcdaudio1
libcdio-cdda0 libcdio-paranoia0 libcelt0 libcpufreq0 libcryptui0 libcupsys2
libdca0 libdmx1 libebackend1.2-0 libebook1.2-9 libecal1.2-7
libedata-book1.2-2 libedata-cal1.2-6 libedataserver1.2-11
libedataserverui1.2-8 libegroupwise1.2-13 libempathy-common
libempathy-gtk-common libempathy-gtk19 libempathy23 libepc-1.0-2
libepc-common libepc-ui-1.0-2 libevent-1.4-2 libexchange-storage1.2-3
libexempi3 libfftw3-3 libgail-common libgail18 libgalago3 libgconf2.0-cil
libgdata-google1.2-1 libgdata1.2-1 libgdict-1.0-6 libggz2 libggzcore9
libggzmod4 libglade2.0-cil libglib2.0-cil libgmime-2.0-2a libgmime2.2a-cil
libgmyth0 libgmythupnp0 libgnome-bluetooth2 libgnome-desktop-2-11
libgnome-media0 libgnome-menu2 libgnome-pilot2 libgnome-vfs2.0-cil
libgnome-window-settings1 libgnome2-0 libgnome2-canvas-perl libgnome2-common
libgnome2-perl libgnome2-vfs-perl libgnome2.24-cil libgnomecanvas2-0
libgnomecanvas2-common libgnomecups1.0-1 libgnomekbd-common libgnomekbd3
libgnomepanel2.24-cil libgnomeprint2.2-0 libgnomeprint2.2-data
libgnomeprintui2.2-0 libgnomeprintui2.2-common libgnomeui-0
libgnomeui-common libgnomevfs2-0 libgnomevfs2-common libgpgme11
libgssdp-1.0-1 libgstfarsight0.10-0 libgtk-vnc-1.0-0 libgtk2.0-cil
libgtkhtml-editor-common libgtkhtml-editor0 libgtkhtml2-0 libgtkhtml3.14-19
libgtksourceview-common libgtksourceview1.0-0 libgtksourceview2.0-0
libgtksourceview2.0-common libgucharmap7 libgupnp-1.0-2 libgupnp-igd-1.0-2
libgweather-common libgweather1 libiptcdata0 libmetacity-private0
libmissioncontrol-client0 libmissioncontrol-server1 libmms0
libmono-addins-gui0.2-cil libmono-addins0.2-cil libmono-cairo2.0-cil
libmono-corlib2.0-cil libmono-posix2.0-cil libmono-security2.0-cil
libmono-sharpzip2.84-cil libmono-system2.0-cil libmtp8 libmysqlclient16
libnautilus-burn4 libnautilus-extension1 libndesk-dbus-glib1.0-cil
libndesk-dbus1.0-cil libnice0 libnl1 libnm-glib-vpn0 libnm-glib0 libnm-util1
libofa0 liboobs-1-4 libopal3.6.4 libopenobex1 libopenspc0 libosp5
libpam-gnome-keyring libpanel-applet2-0 libpcsclite1 libpisock9 libpisync1
libpolkit-gnome0 libproxy0 libpt2.6.4 libpt2.6.4-plugins
libpulse-mainloop-glib0 libshout3 libsidplay1 libslab0 libsoundtouch1c2
libsoup-gnome2.4-1 libsoup2.4-1 libswfdec-0.8-0 libtelepathy-farsight0
libtelepathy-glib0 libtelepathy2 libtotem-plparser12 libtrackerclient0
libunique-1.0-0 libupnp3 libvisual-0.4-0 libwildmidi0 libxklavier12 libxss1
metacity metacity-common mono-2.0-gac mono-gac mono-runtime nautilus
nautilus-data network-manager network-manager-gnome obex-data-server
policykit-gnome python-bugbuddy python-cups python-cupsutils python-evince
python-evolution python-gdata python-gdbm python-gmenu python-gnome2
python-gnome2-desktop python-gnomeapplet python-gnomedesktop
python-gnomekeyring python-gnomeprint python-gtkhtml2 python-gtksourceview
python-gtksourceview2 python-gtop python-mediaprofiles python-metacity
python-nautilusburn python-pyorbit python-rdflib python-rsvg python-sexy
python-totem-plparser python-wnck rhythmbox seahorse seahorse-plugins
sound-juicer swfdec-gnome swfdec-mozilla system-config-printer
system-tools-backends telepathy-mission-control tomboy totem-common
totem-gstreamer totem-mozilla totem-plugins transmission-common
transmission-gtk vinagre vino w3c-dtd-xhtml wpasupplicant xsltproc
xulrunner-1.9-gnome-support yelp
0 upgraded, 321 newly installed, 1 to remove and 1 not upgraded.

Now which is worse? Both use a lot of resources, i.e. ram and cpu.
You need a more or less new computer to run either one well.

My desktop on choice these days is lxde, I guess once it becomes the vista of linux like kde4 and gnome3.0 I will finally switch to running a plain window manager like openbox.

A plague on all your houses! Erm, I mean... desktop environments!

KDE and Gnome both have the same failing. They've got delusions of grandeur and suffer from extreme scope-creep. Instead of providing basic desktop functionality such as file-management, task launching, task switching and other workflow related activities, they have both invaded the application space and also control functions which I'd consider to belong in the realm of the operating system itself such as user management, package management, network configuration, stuff like that.

IMO, what Linux needs is a single application framework/widget library to provide a solid foundation to build applications on and to provide a consistant look and feel to the users. The desktops should be self contained and interchangeable in the same manner that basic window managers are now, and your choice of desktop shouldn't have any impact on what applications you can run.

At the moment, we have KDE apps, and we have Gnome apps, when we should just have Linux/X11 Apps. I have a horrible feeling this is all going to end badly.

Cannot agree more.

I guess this is a symptom of a larger problem Linux/FOSS has: more and more things are misplaced. Thus we have composing that STILL messes up with 3D and accelerated video (should not do so from day 1), no normal clipboard ring (should be below application level), no normal way to configure sound (should be a file to output to), no proper way to configure video (should be a file too), no way to open a folder (how can it be different from a file, everything should be a file on Unix, right?), and so on.

KDE suck if you need something that it doesn't do quite well.
GNOME and other have the same con's, so it merely a personal choice.
You can combine those, through libs, so you can run KDE apps (like K3B) without needing to run KDE itself, and vice versa.
That's the beauty of Linux, the freedom of choice, and configurations.

Although my personal experiences with KDE4 are less positive as to KDE 3.5 series. The latter one is more quicker (e.g. more intuitive menu handling), and more stable.
But that's my opinion, might be different on other systems aka users.

I 2nd my first notion that both suck!!! lol No really the problems I have are all the extra packages that are installed. I believe a WM should just handle the windows, maybe give you a taskbar, menu support, icons, and the ability to assign certain programs to different file types, or assign certain programs to different menu tasks within the WM. such as right click open, what program should be associated with open ect... stuff like that.

What I don't like are all the programs that come with WMs that are useless, XFCE even has one.... Settings Manager... Why not just make a specific settings menu item that expands to XFCE settings only? Saves space!!! That's what I'm talking about, even XFCE sufferes from bulk and I hate it. the default mixers out there, what if I didn't have sound!? why on earth do I want a mixer!? They need to give the user control over that, it shouldn't be a WMs job to do stuff like that. Now I don't mind the idea of having certain programs that work with the WM, such as mousepad with xfce, it's not installed by default but if you want it there are no extra lib costs and that's cool with me. gedit > gnome, kedit > kde ect... but they shouldn't make you instal it off the bat. though I understand they do this for people who don't use linux as much as some of us, but that is also why we probably don't use KDE/GNOME... hehe

Isn't keeping GTK largely separate from other gnome dependencies a way of having a unified linux lib for X11?... if at least only to make apps all look the same.

Additionally you left out Enlightenment DE which I have seen several programs rely on.

If one knew the black arts of both KDE and Gnome programming, they could attempt and making a unified wrapper library to support them all if not only at compile time.

tordfurden's first LQ post (04/08/09) :
Meanwhile tordfurden is very busy helping answer the many Ubuntu newbie's questions here on LQ. Or maybe not?

A week later we are granted this, tordfurden's second LQ post :
I eagerly await his/her next post in this fascinating thread.

I would like KDE more if they kept it like KDE 3 (3.5 is what I've tried), but improved it. I like KDE 3.5 more than KDE 4.* in a lot of ways.