I am a new member and this is my first post. I am answering my own question: Should I switch from Ubuntu since I hate 11.04 and the new Unity desktop??

I have used Linux since the 90's, long before it was a good OS and desktop. I first used Slackware for few years, then used Redhat for a few years, but being unhappy with state of Linux at that time, moved back to Windows. Then I tried Mandrake (Mandriva then) and I was totally sold on switching from Windows. It took only a few months for me to realize that I did not need the dual boot system I set up as I just NEVER went to Windows anymore. So I removed Windows.

After using Mandriva for a few years I got a new printer. I was unhappy that Mandriva did not have the printer driver yet. I had heard about Ubuntu and that they supported everything, so I thought I would try it. I did and it worked and the printer worked just fine. Now there was nothing wrong with Mandriva and I liked it a lot, but Ubuntu was also good and I learned to like it too. I missed some of the features in Mandriva, but found others in Ubuntu.

Now I have used Ubuntu for three years and thought I would try out 11.04 Beta and the new Unity desktop I had heard about. So I fired up the 11.04 live CD. I hated the desktop. I mean I switched from Windows in the first place because I wanted more Unix like things and control, now Ubuntu was trying to take all that away and any control I thought I had. I found 11.04 Unity to be very user dumbing down. Now maybe United is good to get more people to switch from Windows, but it is snot for me.

So I started trying a number of live CD's like Mandriva (again), Fedore (Redhat again), Slackware, OpenSuse,, Knoppix, and a few others. I was not happy with Mandriva as it has changed a lot in ways I do not like, Fedora was fine and much like Ubuntu, but I spent days trying to get the "forbidden" software installed that Redhat does not give you. OpenSuse was pure fiasco and I do not know why anybody would use it, and so on for several other distros. Fedora was best but I needed the "forbidden" software like a driver for my video card from ATI, or play mp3's, etc. So, since I had liked Ubuntu until Unity and it was after all a Debian distro, I decided to try Debian.

I was first blown away by the distro size of several DVD's, but soon found the web install CD. I installed Debain in about an hour. Now I know they say the install in Ubuntu is better, but I selected the "expert" install and still had no problems. Debian installed quickly, and the finished product and Gnome desktop was exactly like my Ubuntu 10.10. It even still used Synaptic for software updates as GUI for Apt, just like Ubuntu. Everything worked. It even found the Flash drive on my printer that Ubuntu did not find.

Now I am asking myself why would anybody want Ubuntu 11? Why did they ever start Ubuntu as it is just Debian. I soon found out it is because Ubuntu has all the latest drivers, like ALSA 1.0.24 whereas Debian stays with the tested stable drivers (ALSA 1.0.23) etc. But the Debnian release just came out in March 2011 so everything is fine with me. And if I want more up to date releases I can use the less stable (test) versions of Debian. I am happy with Debian and my Gnome desktop, and I will not go back to Ubuntu.

If you don't like Unity, just pick your other favorite desktop when you login. Unity is not a requirement on 11.04. I happen to be running Gnome right now on 11.04. The various Linux distros are just different starting points for various configurations. Pick the one that starts you closest to where you want to be.

Hi ggpitz and welcome to LQ.

You will find a few disenchanted ex Ubuntu users here on LQ for much the same reason as you just posted. While Debian Stable is a little behind the times when it is first released it is equal to Ubuntu's LTS release, currently 10.04 and the Debian release is much more stable in comparison. I've been running Debian now since last October and unless something drastic happens I doubt I will switch again.

Cheers.

If you hate unity, its probably a good idea to get off the ubuntu horse IMO.

Sure, right now you can change to 'classic' gnome 2.X, but its only a question of time till gnome 2.X is dropped by canonical. They have already announced that 11.10 will be shipping with unity only, and my guess is that gnome 2.X will be dropped fairly soon.

I sort of feel sorry for gnome 2.X users in general, and ubuntu gnome users in particular. Oh well, thats the way that the tech world goes....

BTW, netinstal is good. I dont use it myself, I prefer to get the standard install CD (when you do a couple of installs, its less d/ling to just get the full install CD). The DVDs are VERY handy for offline use, you can d/l the whole repo if you want. I still recommend debian over any other distro for offline/very limtied internet connections for that reason.

Ubuntu is not 'just debian'. But anyway, it was to make money.

Hello, an Ubuntu fan here, in addition to general Linux fan. Glad to hear that you have found a distribution that you like. The more I read your post, the more I am thinking I may want to look at Debian, at least for my primary machine.

Ubuntu as an OS's mission is to provide a user friendly desktop version of Linux. So Ubuntu is Linux for Newbies. Plain and simple. Sounds like you have moved on from Ubuntu.

And Ubuntu 11.04 is in BETA right now, and will not be released until end of week. So please do not let quirks in Unity deter you. Unity introduces several new concepts in Desktop and window management that personally I have struggled with but am coming to enjoy as the software catches up to the vision. So I am still excited by Unity.

Agreed, with the caveat that Canonical is working to develop an exciting, undeveloped field -- the Linux Desktop / Netbook user. So their mission is to make money while bringing in new Linux users?


Agreed. The wonderful thing about Linux is also the various choice of distributions.

I have over 7 computers (pc's, laptops, powerpc mac mini, and netbooks) spread around the house, and I appreciate the ease of use that comes with Ubuntu and automatic updates (and update manager, and apt-get ). I have a Dell netbook and a power-pc mac mini that would not support Unity, so it automatically went to a Gnome install.

So guess I'll continue to give Ubuntu the nod, at least for now.

No, their mission is to make money and bringing in new Ubuntu users. They aren't making money with Linux users, but with Ubuntu users they do.

Newbie friendly: Yes. User friendly: No.
Being user friendly is a big misconception. I am a user. User friendly is when the distro acts and looks exactly the way I want it to act and look. But Ubuntu doesn't do that for me. So can I consider Ubuntu as user friendly? No, I can't. But that may be (and I think will be) different for you.

Interesting. So Ubuntu does have value in your opinion as a Linux gateway?

The Gnome 2.x desktops are more akin to traditional Windows desktops up to XP. I am glad I learned linux on it.

The new Unity Desktop feels like Windows 7 and some version of Mac OS had a baby. So maybe folks accustomed to that desktop style will like Unity / it will behave like they expect it to? I had a Windows 7 box at my previous job for a year, and it helps me understand wtf Ubuntu is trying to go with Unity.

I am just bs'ing here. I do not know anything and am sure I am stating the obvious.

Thanks for the reply.

What part of Ubuntu does not act the way you expect? The new Unity desktop? Gnome desktop?

When will people stop making these type topics? Noone forces noone to use specific distro or specific gui or whatever..so why bother crying about it? Just pick one you like and that works and be happy.

Partially. Have a look at the Newbie forum, most people recommend Ubuntu or Mint, sometimes PCLinuxOS to newbies that are asking for advice on choosing their first distro. I think this is because these distros try to deliver an experience were almost everything works out of the box. They also tend to be not so hard to learn for new users, because they have GUI tools for the most settings.

It is not that is not working the way I expect it, it is not working the way I want it to work. I also started my Linux experience with Ubuntu and used it from 8.04 to 9.10. After trying some other distros (because of Ubuntu's bugginess and the way Canonical went with 10.04) I changed to Debian. I realized that it is much easier to configure Debian the way I want than it is with Ubuntu. That was also the time I started to be somewhat active here and on the Debian forums, and I learned a lot. Then, not long ago, I changed to Slackware because it comes closest to the way I want it. I really like it.

All I wanted to say was simply that there is no such thing like a general "user friendly" distro, because every user has different needs and works different with his/her computer. And this may also change over time. For me personally, after some time of learning, Slackware is much more user friendly than Ubuntu. For others it is Arch, Gentoo, Fedora, Debian or (put any distro here).

I see nothing bad about this threat. It is just a discussion, not even flaming or fanboys here.

Good points
Yes, almost everything works. And the gui desktop experience is more familiar than the command line. In the most developed cases - Linux mint, Ubuntu - they feel like flavors of Windows or Mac OS x. If you are hoping to gain non-Linux users to Linux, these 2 aspects would seem to be very imporant.

Thanks for the mention of the Newbie forum. I'll look hard at that forum - I'm new to linuxquestions , but hope to be here more often in future.

Personally, I am still learning some basics for my home network -> like separate the server features from any edgy desktop features <- especially if you going to go into Beta + proposed updates + Debian testing upstream files. I borked my main machines' 11.04 installation trying to incorporate some Debian testing (forked-daap) software. Had about 7 different types of servers that were thrown off when I (just out of curiousity ) let synaptic remove about 100 ubuntu components and installed a failed debian squeeze . Ouch. I will try to look at the resulting restore as a learning experience. (No data loss, now running 10.10 on primary machine in a different partition.)

I look forward to getting a Debian installation going soon!

Yeah, I wonder what / how Desktop designers begin to think that one Desktop type, of whatever type, can appeal to every user. The more configurable the Desktop, the more successful? Guess there is a whole theory behind user experience and Desktop design.

Thanks for the conversation!

Ubuntu users, sometimes I wonder what goes on in your heads....

If you have struggled with unity, why use it? Surely you can drop back to gnome 2.X for now, or change over to Xfce/KDE/fluxbox/etc..

I wouldnt say that the field is "undeveloped" at all. Canonical is just the most vocal about it.

I wouldnt call ubuntu (or mint) 'more developed'. They are easier if you have dodgy hardware, but as long as you are running decent linux friendly hardware they are no easier than debian (apart from possible teh nvidia drivers, not that you 'need' them).

With linux friendly hardware, everything should work 'out of the box' these days. I rarely, if ever, have to do any sertting up for hardware post install with debian.

If thats true (which it may or may not be) unity is bound to have problems. There is way more things that you cant change with unity than any of the other main DEs.

I can only speak for myself, of course, but the reason that I tried Unity is because I was curious about it. Ubuntu is trying to simplify by offering one desktop for netbooks, workstations, living room, etc.

My struggles with Unity were more trying to understand the vision of the desktop developers as they worked out the kinks - since it was a Beta version, I had no upset when the launcher did not quite respond as I expected. Unity works great now by the way.

See, this is why I get confused.....

Since when has there been an KDE, XFCE, Gnome 2.X, etc. version for desktop use and a different version for netbooks/laptops? Since never.

Ubuntu made the original UNR (ubuntu netbook remix) with a changed desktop which is in many ways the basis for unity. That really didnt work out so well, most desktop ubuntu users avoided the new desktop, and a lot of netbook/laptop users tried it for a while, then just gave up and went back to 'classic' gnome.

Canonical wasnt overly happy with that result, so they decided to push unity onto all ubuntu users. For now you have the option of using classic gnome, with 11.10 there will be no fallback to classic gnome-

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...812/comments/5

Classic gnome might still be avaible to install from the repos for 11.10, but that is unknown now. Even if it is an option with 11.10, I doubt it will be in 12.04. Or unity might become a hard dependancy with 12.04. Or both.

I personally dont think that unity has anything to do with 'simplifing offerings', or having the same desktop for various uses (unless you want the same desktop on your computers and a mobile phone, which is something I couldnt care about). Its more about canonical wanting more control, with the option of selling unity as a proprietary desktop to 3rd parties.

11.04 is beta for now (given a few hours it will be a normal release) but unity isnt exactly beta. Well, it sort of is, there is no doubt that its still got at least some bugs. But the actual unity desktop has been out for ages now, it was the default desktop with 10.10 UNE (Ubuntu Netbook Edition, which replaced UNR).....

I think I could get used to Unity, but I was put off by a couple of other things in Ubuntu, like the inability to skip installing a boot loader during install or the assumption that your hardware clock is set to UTC.

Debian is a good alternative.

Or, since you liked Mandriva, maybe you'll like the new fork 'Mageia'
http://www.mageia.org/