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Old 12-05-2005, 08:53 PM   #1
m.r.bob
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Registered: Dec 2005
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newbie: looking for easy to install distro that I can install new programs on easily


I have tried two distros so far, Debain, which I gave up trying to install, and Ubuntu.
Ubuntu installed nicely, but it had one thing that kept irking me, the version of firefox they had was very outdated.
So I tried to install a newer version of firefox. Now the problem that I have, is that I can't install a newer version until I've uninstalled the older version. I can't uninstall the older version because of dependencies.
I'm pretty sure there is this linux way involving packages to go about all this. However, the package manager that comes with Ubuntu won't let me select between the stable version of FireFox, the beta of firefox, and deerpark, or if I would prefer for some odd reason, and older version.
In fact, I couldn't even figure out how to get it to get the regular new version of FireFox with the package manger.

I don't like this idea of packages very much, and I would prefer to have a version of Linux where I can just download an installer file and double click on the shell script and have it install itself.
Which versions of Linux are most flexible about the installation of new junk? Do you know any versions with package managers that will let you decide what version of the program that you want, and that have an intuitive method for adding new packages? Do you know any versions or programs that will tell you which programs have dependencies on each other, so you can mange those programs easier?

And the final question, have I finally broken my tradition of horribly screwing up the first topic I post on a forum, despite my experience with forum boards?
Oh ya, and don't lose track of the topic title.
 
Old 12-05-2005, 09:03 PM   #2
arunvk
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as far as installing applications with just a click in linux is still not possible. the only logical way is to remove the existing version of the application. there r many ways to do it. one of the ways is
rpm -e --nodeps <application name>
--nodeps arguments removes it to without checking for dependencies but u may not want to use. use it only when u r sure u dont need it anymore.

for installing use rpm -i --force <application name>

--force with rpm -i. this will install it even if there is an existing version.

hope thats solves ur problem.
 
Old 12-06-2005, 09:06 AM   #3
m.r.bob
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as far as installing applications with just a click in linux is still not possible.
Damn, what I was hoping is that someone had seen this as being a problem hindering linux's popularity, and decided to make a distro where you could install with just a click.

rpm -e --nodeps <application name>
rpm -i --force <application name>

If this way works, then why don't people build these commands into intstaller sheel scripts, or preferably, into the OS iself?
I understand why we need to have dependcies, but the OS shouldn't make it an issue when I'm trying to upgrade to a new version.
EDIT: After spending so much time on livejournal, I'm going to have to re-aquaint myself with BBcode.

Last edited by m.r.bob; 12-06-2005 at 09:07 AM.
 
Old 12-06-2005, 09:29 AM   #4
stimpsonjcat
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Registered: Apr 2005
Location: switzerland
Distribution: debian etch
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Ubuntu is based on Debian and uses the APT package manager. other distros like Mandriva or Fedora use RPM (Redhat Package Manager). most rpm-based distros have their own point&click utilities to install .rpm files. SUSE has its YAST I'm not familiar with. And there's Lindows (oops sorry, Linspire) which tries to mimic another popular OS.

Of course, there's always the option of installing applications from source with ./configure, make, make install but this is not at all a point&click thing.

besides dependency handling, another advantage of package managers is security: unless you include dubious sources in your package repositories you're almost immune against malware and viruses.
 
Old 12-06-2005, 11:37 AM   #5
ssfrstlstnm
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Distribution: debian etch
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I'm not sure how you got things screwed up with firefox. Maybe you tried to install a package that was not available in the unbuntu repository? It's so much easier to just use what is available in your distro.

You may want to try to use aptitude to install packages. It gives you more control over what gets installed, and also shows you dependency information. Ubuntu and debian both use apt package manager which is about as easy as it gets.

What was the problem that you had installing debian? You may be able to use the config files from your ubuntu install to get debian working.
 
Old 12-06-2005, 12:15 PM   #6
Cogar
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Registered: Oct 2005
Location: It varies, but usually within 100 feet of a keyboard.
Distribution: Fedora 10, Kubuntu 8.04, Puppy 4.1.2, openSUSE 11.2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stimpsonjcat
SUSE has its YAST I'm not familiar with. And there's Lindows (oops sorry, Linspire) which tries to mimic another popular OS.
YaST works quite well. When I updated my NVIDIA video drivers, it was literally one click and a couple of "OKs" and the process was done. Much simpler than with Windows. I have also played around with Linspire a little. They are also very much a point-and-click setup, although they charge you $20 a year to be able to use their CNR (Click 'n Run) service. It is not a big deal, but some people are cheap. Anyway, the disadvantages of these systems are that you are limited to software that has been compiled and placed in the repositories (or warehouse, as Linspire calls it). Other packages have to be installed by conventional Linux methods. As an example, I am running Doom 3 with SUSE, but it required a "traditional" Linux install.

Specifically addressing the initial questions, I would say that SUSE is about as "newb" friendly as it gets. I have not used Ubuntu, but I have used Kubuntu, which I think is identical except for the desktop environment. Between the two, I think SUSE is better, but the difference is not that much.
 
Old 12-06-2005, 06:46 PM   #7
m.r.bob
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Sure, I'll guess I'll try SUSE, it sounds like it's nice.

Is it easy to install though? I don't know any linux console stuff/shell (command line like) stuff, and I would prefer an installer like Ubuntu's where I don't have to mess around with that type of thing.
 
Old 12-06-2005, 07:11 PM   #8
Cogar
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I believe SUSE's installer is every bit as intuitive and easy to use as Ubuntu's. (I have not installed Ubuntu, but I have installed Kubuntu, and I am guessing that they will be almost identical.)
 
Old 12-07-2005, 10:40 AM   #9
m.r.bob
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Just one last question. With some distros I've had a very hard time finding the ISO files. Can you link me to a site that will have the latest SUSE ISOs?
 
Old 12-07-2005, 10:46 AM   #10
Cogar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m.r.bob
Just one last question. With some distros I've had a very hard time finding the ISO files. Can you link me to a site that will have the latest SUSE ISOs?
Here you go.

http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=suse
 
Old 12-07-2005, 10:48 AM   #11
Cogar
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More links here:

http://www.novell.com/products/susel...nux/index.html
 
Old 12-07-2005, 09:10 PM   #12
m.r.bob
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Ok, I'm starting to zero in on what I want.
I went to the mirrors offered on linuxquestions.org. I looked at the reviews, and they look pretty good. There is only one problem, there is no way I'm installing 15 ISO images, so instead of the latest version, which probably has lots of features I won't need, I'm going to go with Suse 9.1 personal. I'll post here when things start happening (which will be tommorow or some other time this week).
 
Old 12-08-2005, 05:06 AM   #13
stimpsonjcat
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15? You only need the ones compiled for your architecture (probably x86, which is Intel-compatible 32 bit) The other ones are for 64 bit or Power PC (Macintosh). So five should be enough.

SUSE even offers an internet installation. all you need for that is a boot image which requires you to burn one CD and the rest is downloaded on-demand. See www.opensuse.org
 
Old 12-08-2005, 09:50 AM   #14
Cogar
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stimpsonjcat is correct. The complete downloadable SUSE is 5 CDs or 1 DVD. Let me add for clarification that neither version contains all the items on the retail DVD, which is dual layer and includes both the 32 and 64-bit versions. I think it also has a few additional packages.

Since this is a newbie-oriented thread, let me make a very specific suggestion for downloaders. Go to this page --> link and download the SUSE 10.0 eval version. It is the closest to retail, as I recall. Your choices for 32 bit are downloading the 5 CD ISOs or the 1 DVD ISO. For 64 bit, you are limited to the 1 DVD ISO (a different download from the 32 bit version). The rest of the instructions are on the page. I hope that helps.
 
Old 12-08-2005, 03:36 PM   #15
m.r.bob
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Registered: Dec 2005
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Ya, I realized that it was 5 CDs about two seconds after I posted that. I was going to edit the post, but my brother grabbed the laptop from me.
I'm going to try the 1 cd version I mentioned before I try 10.
I will try both though.
 
  


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