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Old 10-05-2013, 06:02 AM   #16
redfox2807
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Not really an issue of 'too few deleopers' IMO, its just the Mint developers have KDE low on the priority list. MATE and Cinnamon get released 1st, then Xfce, then KDE.
As far as I remember the KDE vesion was developed by a separate team. I might be wrong though. Anyway that does change the fact that LM-KDE is released much later then the regular one. You either have to wait or update to LM and install KDE on top of it.

Quote:
Umm..testing isnt outdated.
It relative. I find some packages in testing to be a bit outdated. Sometimes it can be critical (I know you can update selected packages from the unstable repository). Ubuntu is based on Debian unstable until now. They have anounced they might/will switch to testing but that will be in future releases.

Quote:
Depending on how your sources.list is setout, you might not even have to change the list at all (if for example you have 'stable' not 'wheezy', though IIRC debian now suggests using the relase name, not 'stable').
Well, you can use 'stable' name if you like. Yet it's not that hard to modify the list so IMHO you'd better watch over the process of dist-upgrading.

Quote:
Not anymore, if it ever was. Unity and Mir are ubuntu only, and are most likely going to stay that way.
Unity is irrelevant for packaging, Mir is not released yet. The 13.10 release will have Mir, but so far it has minor difference to Wayland. Moreover Kubuntu is released with Wayland. I expalined what I meant by 'standard'. For any commercial program released for desktops there will be an Ubuntu package and support. For Debian you're supposed to use the Ubuntu package. It will work most of the times, still it was tested on Ubuntu. Steam is a good example.

Quote:
BTW, debian has more packages than ubuntu.
I don't care about numbers. Ubuntu has up-to-date PPAs/packages for each and every program I ever needed. Debian - often, but not always.

I'm not trying to say that Debian sucks. Not at all. What I'm saying is that Ubuntu's taking advantage of its popularity at the moment. When Mir comes to its fruition things may change - we'll see. So far for many people Linux == Ubuntu, like it or not.
 
Old 10-05-2013, 06:26 AM   #17
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807 View Post
It relative. I find some packages in testing to be a bit outdated. Sometimes it can be critical (I know you can update selected packages from the unstable repository). Ubuntu is based on Debian unstable until now. They have anounced they might/will switch to testing but that will be in future releases.
Nope, for ages ubuntu LTS has been based on 'testing', not 'sid/unstable'. Only the non-LTS releases are based on 'sid/unstable'

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807 View Post
Unity is irrelevant for packaging, Mir is not released yet. The 13.10 release will have Mir, but so far it has minor difference to Wayland. Moreover Kubuntu is released with Wayland. I expalined what I meant by 'standard'.
Unity could well indroduce packaging problems.

Doesnt matter if Mir isnt released yet, its still something hanging over ubuntu.

There may be 'minor difference' to wayland, at least now....which begs the question, why Mir? Opps, canonical wants to own it, and they cant own Wayland.

Kubuntu/Xubuntu/etc. using a different display server is not going to help them long term. Canonical is focusign all its attention on ubuntu and canonical 'in house' projects, the alternate desktop versions are at best poor cousins now. They arent going to get anywhere near the same amount of development time to ubuntu.

It also goes back to DavidMcCanns post (#6). While I dont totally agree with him, having one version (with the majority of development) using Mir, and the others using a different display server could create all sorts of issues, minor and major.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807 View Post
For any commercial program released for desktops there will be an Ubuntu package and support. For Debian you're supposed to use the Ubuntu package.
'Supposed'? Says who?

I'd be more likely to build it from source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807 View Post
What I'm saying is that Ubuntu's taking advantage of its popularity at the moment.
They left it a bit late, ubuntu has taken a huge hit in number of users since they decided to screw around with unity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807 View Post
So far for many people Linux == Ubuntu, like it or not.
The opinions of the great unwashed dont matter much IMO.....and look how fast many of those users moved over to other distos (e.g.Mint MATE) when they found that the gnome 2.X desktop they knew and loved had been discontinued.
 
Old 10-06-2013, 07:13 AM   #18
redfox2807
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Nope, for ages ubuntu LTS has been based on 'testing', not 'sid/unstable'. Only the non-LTS releases are based on 'sid/unstable'
So what? Have I ever mentioned that LTS was based on unstable? Still regular Ubuntu releases are based on unstable.


Quote:
Unity could well indroduce packaging problems.

Doesnt matter if Mir isnt released yet, its still something hanging over ubuntu.

There may be 'minor difference' to wayland, at least now....which begs the question, why Mir? Opps, canonical wants to own it, and they cant own Wayland.

Kubuntu/Xubuntu/etc. using a different display server is not going to help them long term. Canonical is focusign all its attention on ubuntu and canonical 'in house' projects, the alternate desktop versions are at best poor cousins now. They arent going to get anywhere near the same amount of development time to ubuntu.

It also goes back to DavidMcCanns post (#6). While I dont totally agree with him, having one version (with the majority of development) using Mir, and the others using a different display server could create all sorts of issues, minor and major.
Yeah, I've heard that Canonical is an opensource evil. I'm not gonna disscuss here whether what Cannonical is doing is good or bad. Only time will tell IMHO. We always have an option to use other distros/technologies, haven't we? That's what we love Linux for in first place I guess and that's what Windows users lack after Windows 8/Metro introduction. The decisions made by Cannonical are going to be a major challenge for every Ubuntu spin-off in future. That goes without arguing. Still it doesn't make Kubuntu a poor cousin as it's a community-driven distro. Cannonical has nothing to do with it. It even annonced that it no more supported it. Kubuntu's still pretty much alive and for now Kubuntu is still an option, and is a good one.

Concerning DavidMcCanns comment I'm not quite agree with him though there is much sound in his opinion. There's no problem using other WM/DEs than the default one on a distro, but it will cost you time. On every distro my primary WM/DE was KDE. I tried every other DE/WM. Some of them I liked (like fluxbox, e17) and used for a while, some just couldn't stand for reasons that were beyond me (like Gnome 2 or Xfce), but KDE (both version 3 and 4) was always the DE that fitted me best. In my experience KDE worked well on non-KDE distros like Zenwalk, Ubuntu or Mint. I used to use KDE on top of regular Ubuntu, not Kubuntu because at the time Kubuntu was a poor cousin indeed. It has grown up since then.

Quote:
'Supposed'? Says who?
Like steam as I said: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...1313-QIPD-5381



Quote:
The opinions of the great unwashed dont matter much IMO.....
Hm. Ignorance is strength, right? To me that sounds no better that Windows' fanboys saying Linux is irrelevant and can be ignored.

Quote:
and look how fast many of those users moved over to other distos (e.g.Mint MATE) when they found that the gnome 2.X desktop they knew and loved had been discontinued.
I thought we were discussing KDE-based distroes. What does user's frustration of Unity/love of Gnome 2 have to do with KDE?
 
Old 10-06-2013, 07:25 AM   #19
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807 View Post
So what? Have I ever mentioned that LTS was based on unstable? Still regular Ubuntu releases are based on unstable.
You said-

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807 View Post
Ubuntu is based on Debian unstable until now.
And I guess that, plus my dislike of ubuntu/canonial, plus the ubuntu icon, explains your post.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807 View Post
That steam link doesnt say 'use ubuntu packages on debian'.

Quote:
Linux

Steam for Linux is only supported on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS or 12.10 with the Unity, Gnome, or KDE desktop. Additional distributions will be examined for support as time permits. For more information on Steam for Linux, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Valve.

You can learn more about what we are working on here: Valve Linux blog.

The best source of information on this product is the Steampowered.com Linux Server Forum:
Linux Dedicated Server

There is also an ADMIN Mail list for Linux that you can read the archives and join to ask questions:

hlds_linux -- Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list

If you wish to run the Dedicated Server under Linux, you can download the Server Installation tool:

http://storefront.steampowered.com/d...updatetool.bin
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...1313-QIPD-5381

Quote:
Native Steam on Linux

Debian

Steam packages are available for jessie and sid. To install Steam, use apt-get install steam or aptitude install steam.
If you are on a non-i386 architecture (e.g. amd64), you need to enable multiarch.
Further installation and usage instructions can be found in the Steam Debian wiki article.
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/...am_under_Linux

Last edited by cascade9; 10-06-2013 at 07:31 AM.
 
Old 10-06-2013, 08:00 AM   #20
redfox2807
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Quote:
You said-
Quote:
Originally Posted by redfox2807
Ubuntu is based on Debian unstable until now.
Ok I didn't mention that LTS is not based on unstable, but on testing indeed. How does it change the fact that if you're not sticking to LTS releases only you have a Debian unstable-based distro?

Quote:
And I guess that, plus my dislike of ubuntu/canonial, plus the ubuntu icon, explains your post.....
It explains nothing. You just dislike Cannonical. So everything they ever did is evil. Everything related to Ubuntu is evil as well. That's it. Ubuntu icon says I'm writing from a Kubuntu-powered machine right now as this distro curently fits my needs. If some day it doesn't anymore I will switch to something else.

Quote:
Native Steam on Linux

Debian

Steam packages are available for jessie and sid. To install Steam, use apt-get install steam or aptitude install steam.
If you are on a non-i386 architecture (e.g. amd64), you need to enable multiarch.
Further installation and usage instructions can be found in the Steam Debian wiki article.
So I was wrong about using Ubuntu packages for Debian. Still I was right about no support and no official packages provided for Debian at all. Valve tests steam on Ubuntu as well.
 
  


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