Hello, I'm looking to get set up with a Linux machine and I'm just going through some of the basics to get an understanding of it all.


Couple of questions; Desktop

I've heard mentioned and seen online where people say just grab an older machine that you're not using and install Linux on that and in some cases they work better than newer machines would.
Can somebody explain if that's true and why so?.


Also,
is it possible to buy a desktop without any software installed ie Windows etc.?


Are there certain types of parameters that I should get, certain types of processors other hardware software issues that would be more desirable or less?

It's not quite that simple. These days you would want one with a minimum of 3GB RAM, preferably 4GB, for modern Linux distros. Also, Nvidia graphics and Broadcom and Realtek wireless (if you plan to use wireless) can be problematical. They can be got working, but it usually takes some extra steps. Overall, you are best with Intel Inside.

For consumer-grade machines, it would be quite a hunt. Others likely know more about that than I.

Another alternative is a native Linux machine, but they tend to be pricey, as they generally start with mid-grade, as opposed to consumer-grade hardware.

A number of the members of my LUG swear by Lenovo (but not the Yogis).

A web search for "best used computer for linux" will turn up a number articles that may help.

You can find just off warranty business desktops that are 3 years old on ebay easily, and sometimes locally on Craigslist/Offerup/etc. They usually go for just a couple hundred, and while often need some cleaning, and usually are small form factor so aren't going to be doing any real gaming, for a basic machine, they're usually quite sufficient and great value.

On desktops, the hardware you should avoid is MUCH smaller than laptops. Most NIC's work out of the box, IGP's from both Intel & AMD are well supported, etc. Most used desktop won't have wifi (and OEM machines it's still not insanely common for desktops to have wifi, although starting to get there), so you don't have to worry about the #1 PITA with linux.

There are quite a few resellers on ebay who get major business refurbed desktops and sell them without OS as well, although if it still has Windows, you're no longer paying for the license at that point.

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I'm going to sounds like I'm trying to sell you on Linux. I'm not ... I'm just sharing my experiences.

Not just any old machine. Modern Linux does have minimum requirements, albeit generally much less than Windows. And even at that, if you install modern Linux and modern Windows on the same machine with 4gb RAM, Linux will generally run much better. You can even install on a machine with 2gb RAM in a pinch.

I have a Dell laptop from 2009 with 4gb RAM and Core Duo processor. I installed Linux Mint 20.2 (the newest). It's a little sluggish compared to my newer 2019 laptop, but it's definitely a serviceable laptop for document editing, web browsing, streaming video, etc. My some-time-to-be daughter-in-law used it for photo editing for a while without issues.

As well, my modern Linux Mint install currently takes about 15gb, not including /home. Browsing through my local Best Buy a few weeks ago, I couldn't find a Windows 10 laptop that took less than 50gb for the OS. Sometimes much much more, due to bloat. This can be a big consideration when dealing with older, smaller hard drives.

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And a key point here as well is the type of desktop: a Linux desktop such as Gnome, KDE or Cinnamon is going to require full 3D rendering to display and consume a fair number of resources (I'm looking at you Gnome - you bloated pig). Lighter desktops like Mate` or LXDE, LXQT, etc, are much lighter on resources. With Windows you are stuck with, well, Windows. Linux has a dizzying array of available user interfaces to choose from. Most mainstream Linux distributions only have a small number rolled into their distribution so the choices are easier.

An old (2006) laptop of mine with just 1GB of ram, & 2GB swap, still runs my Devuan (Chimaera) desktop at an adequate speed, if you don't mind waiting a few seconds whilst loading big programs like web browsers & office suites.

Best to get something better though for regular use.

Something with 4GB ram, & 2GHz processor would be a good starting point.

I also use a RPi4 SBC & a RPi400 with Linux desktops, (Devuan), perfectly adequate for general computing.

Build your own. You can choose components that will work well with Linux.
Ed

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So I bought an HP z800 off lease desktop before. Had great luck with it. It was configured to be a beast (2 x hexacore Xeon) and 24 or 32gb ram, can't remember. Was < $500 at the time and I see them now for around $200-$300 US. I ran every Linux distro I could, plus several BSDs with zero issues. I don't know whether all of these models have similar components or not though. Only downside was energy consumption: 1100 watt power supply and since it had a SAS controller, it took several minutes to boot.

Build your own is a great idea though - you can pick and choose.

My first concern and question about the older versus new machines was just a trivia question, I was just curious why some people would say they might work a little better?? In any case we can move on.


My main usage , surfing the web social Media stuff YouTube etc, very typical day-to-day stuff.

Note, I do not do gaming so that's not a concern.

For the most part the biggest usage is going to be collecting data and crunching it whether it's books, articles, research papers, ... I tend to collect a lot of that and then crunch it sort through it manipulate it etc


Again this is for a desktop.

I'm not necessarily opposed to buying something off the rack probably the cheapest way to go, which would come with Windows.


So I'll ask this, is there a way to get every Germ and cell of Windows off a computer once it's installed?

I.e. without any trace of it at all.

I'm goint to try a test run.

I have ubuntu-21.10-desktop-amd64.iso on a thumb drive.


Been told that I can start up holding F8, and it will give me the option to

use ubuntu as the OS.


can you tell me what the steps would be...

and how to tell if it works or not.

1. If you buy a second hand computer with Windows installed the price will reflect how old the Windows version is. Windows versions older than the current release are
essentially worthless.

2. When buying a computer, machines with a SSD are significantly faster than machines with a HDD.

3. Yes, when installing Linux you can completely wipe whatever was on the machine previously if you so choose. You can even get rid of that UEFI nonsense by changing the BIOS.

4. Linux is extremely configurable. Most current distributions are set up to take optimal advantage of the current modern machines. You can spend a lot of time and effort
to configure a distribution to perform optimally on whatever archaic machine you happen to have laying around or bought for $10. However I don't think that a newbie would
know enough about Linux to be able to try this and not give up in frustration. Since June, 2000 I have progressed to a new machine or machines about every 2 years. I always buy the -1 generation of hardware and use the current version of Fedora, SuSE, or Debian. Everything always works well together.

You get into the BIOS during boot by holding down a function key. Which function key to press varies with the brand of computer. What you want to do in the BIOS is deal with UEFI. UEFI is designed by Microsoft to make booting any OS other than Windows impossibly complicated. Dual booting Linux and Windows on an UEFI boot is even more complicated (but thanks to the GRUB developers both options are possible). Fortunately all of the manufacturers have left open the possibility of turning UEFI off completely. If you turn off UEFI you cannot boot Windows but booting Linux through GRUB becomes very easy. Since you are going to wipe Windows off your machine I suggest that you disable UEFI in your machines' BIOS. What you have to rearrange in the BIOS varies from one brand of computer to another.

Once you get UEFI turned off you can boot into the Ubuntu installer. I have never used Ubuntu but I think that every installer gives you the option to install a UEFI boot or a regular boot. If you turn off UEFI in the BIOS and tell Ubuntu to install a regular type boot then you will be good to go.

Thanks for the info..

I have Win 7

what i was trying to do, before I get a New PC or change the current one over
permently, was to turn on the PC while holding F8, which would bring up a
DOS like window where I could choose to boot up using a USB stick
that has Ubuntu on it.
That way I could see how I like it and maybe try linuxmint that way as well.

Can this be done ?

Yes it can be done.
Though you have not mentioned which laptop model you have, F8 seems to be the "Boot option" key of your BIOS. You should have at least another key to enter the BIOS setup page, unless is locked by an administrator.

Edit: You should also check at least 2-3 distributions and 2-3 different desktop environments. I would recommend Linux Mint and Zorin.

That's unnecessarily pessimistic. Most Linux distros boot easily from a UEFI if you just turn off the Secure Boot option, which is the specific bit of the UEFI firmware that was intended to tie you to Windows. Getting around Secure Boot is complicated, so it's simpler just to turn it off. AFAIK a UEFI machine needs to have that possibility available to be sold anywhere in the EU but I'm not sure if some of the most recent machines still allow a complete reversion to a traditional mbr boot.
It varies. Most installers just check the mode in which you booted. If it was UEFI, they'll install GRUB in UEFI mode. If not, they'll install it in the traditional way into the mbr. You don't necessarily get an explicit choice (unless you install GRUB by hand).