Thank you for an excellent post will happily add Bodhi Moksha to the list if eligible on RAM. I have tried it in the past but, but if my memory serves me well, I could not get the apps I needed. Must have improved over past four years...? Still confused by Wiki - Enlightenment, also known simply as E, is a compositing window manager for the X Window System - so what is Moksha? Does it use a compositor?

To save me the time of an install; could you confirm that Bodhi comes in at 200MiB or under fully compliant with all criteria in Post#1 - thanks.
Best independent information is that it does not make the grade at 233MiB and that is without Gimp or LibreOffice or....!
https://distrocrunch.com/bodhi-linux-6-review/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOQ3iqeP0ho

BTW Antix-MX-LXDE has an appfinder - should anyone not know where their apps are Hahaha I deleted Plank from Loc-OS too. Think you are playing catch-up with iBar? What is Shelf..? Is it tint2 for WMs?

BTW I did mention Pantheon in post #57 and as for PopOS if memory serves me well the RAM usage was horrendous or at least excessive. So PopOS has no place here and AFAIK no Pantheon distro will not make the grade either so of no interest to readers of this topic.

ps I would be interested in knowing what features are missing from AntiX22 Full-LXDE that are present in Bodhi-Moksha. Perhaps you can enlighten me, excuse the pun. How is Bodhi doing with dual pane file manager Er, since when? They had it and dropped it Oh Dear, crashing and security issues too!
As per your post on Bodhi forum...
Do you need Google to find app vim on Bodhi Moksha; or is it vi or there again it could be tiny-vim or vim-tiny????

You'll only get current Moksha under 200MB by disabling features. Also 32-bit uses less memory than 64.

You have access to ubuntu repositories, so unlikely you can't find apps, and if there's something you find missing, you can request it added to Bodhi repo, and it usually happens. Gimp or LibreOffice should not take any memory to have installed as they do not install any services, so not sure how thats related.

No Moksha does not do compositing by default, that's something that happened with later versions of enlightenment and one of the reasons moksha forked was to avoid that. If you enable compositing in Moksha, it uses picom under the hood; by default it is disabled.

What Moksha calls a "shelf" is what XFCE calls a panel. As to your other questions, they seem random and all over the place and I feel like you're trying to be annoying, so I'll stop here. I have not used Antix, I'm not the one to ask about it, maybe someone whose used it can chime in for you, or you can just try it yourself.

1 members found this post helpful.

Found your post #50 a little annoying, inaccurate and therefore pointless – would have expected better from the Bodhi Moksha team: You write….
It certainly offers a lot more features than LXDE - which afaik doesn't even have a way to search applications, you have to browse traditional menu by mouse, or use terminal! And pcmanfm doesn't even leave breadcrumbs! (Not to discredit LXDE, it's very usable and the lightest of the major desktops - it's just old and no new fancy features.)

We can all see that you failed to enlighten us on “It certainly offers a lot more features than LXDE” As for my plucking random questions; just poking fun at your posts as Bodhi team member so that they would be easy for you to answer – again we at LQ can hear the silence on Bhodi crashing and security issues.
As for those fancy Moksha features – they get in the way – according to some pro reviews.. pulsing highlights… how childish…? It gets worse with the dancing rainbow as you type and then there is the cat – yes a cat – how infantile is that…? Funny to see the green menu highlights as you scroll unable to keep pace with the mouse pointer – I did not realise Bodhi-Moksha was that slow – there again how old is Enlightenment 17 Bodhi uses? Over a decade old..? - Version 0.17, also referred to as E17, was in development for 12 years starting in December 2000 until 21 December 2012 when it was officially released as stable.
Had to smile as Neofetch lists Enlightenment as the DE and Moksha as the WM and RAM at 302MiB
LXLE and Antix22 Full has a shedload more features and utilities straight out of the box than Bodhi-Moksha. Running Antix-LXDE and many extras installed including Gimp, Screencast Video, video editing, apps, etc comes in at 150MiB.
All at LQ can head over to DistroWatch and scroll through the list of what Bodhi standard does not have out of the box yet requires 233MiB RAM (Bodhi reportedly claim 100) to run it at idle, so had to lol at that app finder – hilarious count on fingers…

If your team at Bodhi can list and display a short screencast video of a 200MiB or reduced Moksha setup that can be tweaked without resort to editing sys files it would be great to include this interesting distro here.

This video review of Bodhi 6 with the usual bundle of everyday apps installed Bodhi App package to make up for what is missing in standard iso, should give an idea of a fair comparison with AntiX-22 Full, LXDE or Loc-OS but with Bodhi using more resources for the same tasks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuHZRwjsBvM
Bodhi 7 here…
https://debugpointnews.com/bodhi-linux-7-0-0-testing/

Oh my. This is a fun thread!

The two things I mentioned. LXDE doesn't have a way to search for applications by typing. That's all that means. Most every other desktop does offer such a feature, and certainly some distros may have added tools to do that too. That's personally just one thing I've noticed that's missing when I use LXDE, as I often hit the keyboard shortcut then start typing the name of the app I want instead of digging thru menus or app drawers.

The other feature I mentioned was file manager breadcrumbs. In most modern file managers, when you go up a directory, it highlights and leaves the cursor on the folder you came from. Pcmanfm doesn't offer such a feature. It does, however, offer split screen view (without opening two windows) which is a useful feature, something older versions of thunar do not. Thunar is XFCE's file manager and it didnt offer that until recent versions, and Bodhi doesnt use the enlightement file manager cuz we like Thunar better. In an earlier post you mentioned something probably related to a suggestion I made on bodhi forums a couple years ago, to use newer version of thunar than in ubuntu repos to get that split screen feature. So that new version was put into bodhi's testing repo, not the main bodhi repo, the repo only team members and those that want to experiment with stuff have manually added. Turned out a user reported issues when testing it, so it never made it into made bodhi repo. I personally still used it without issue....

One thing people rarely report is Bodhi being slow, even with the "bling" features enabled. However, Moksha is overly complicated with ability to customize, you can turn off anything you want, half the stuff in the settings panel is confusing cuz its unclear what it might mean. So if some fancy feature is getting in the way, disable it. I turn off all the flashing icons and popup descriptions and stuff myself. It's very customizable.

Moksha was forked from Enlightenment 17, and they're now version 25! Bodhi still uses the latest enlightenment foundation libraries, but Moksha itself has diverged from Enlightenment quite a bit in the past decade with various features and fixes. Sometimes E adds a feature Bodhi wants, and Bodhi developers will port it into Moksha. You mentioned "ibar", which is another unique word Moksha uses. All the weird words come from enlightenment... but anyway ibar is what in win9x/xp calls "quick launch" shortcuts on "shelf"(panel). E made it so their ibar could act as a dock, not just a launcher, eliminating the need for a taskbar, and so Bodhi devs copied that feature and preparing it for the next release. Just another option. I personally am a plank dock fan and don't use ibar or the traditional start menu even bodhi's other style app launcher (called an "everything starter") on my primary pc, but with the new ibar, maybe I will use it instead... I'm testing it now.... but on my kids computer I have the everything starter setup full screen with giant colorful icons... it's very customizable.

You mention apps like GIMP, etc. That has nothing to do with the desktop and shouldn't affect memory usage. That is the distro that is including extra apps, that's not part of LXDE or Moksha. I can install 50GB worth of apps without affecting memory usage, that's not a feature of the desktop, that's a feature (or anti-feature) of the distro. Bodhi is purposefully minimal, hardly includes anything, but you can install whatever you want, its meant for people who already know what they want to install, not beginners.

Anyways if you prefer LXDE, nothing wrong with that. But development stopped years ago, but it's stable and works great, and will continue to work great. LXLE is one of the few distros that actually features LXDE and I bet they do a good job with making it a more complete experience, I haven't used it. I have installed LXDE on Debian in the recent past tho (on a 2GB 32-bit celeron), and it just includes the basic lxde stuff (lxsession, lxpanel, lxapperance, lxrandr, and pcmanfm), and I have also have a slitaz partition on my p4 which uses old versions of the same stuff.

Dancing rainbows as you type, etc, that's not something I've ever enabled, is that the weird (non default) cursor available in terminology? How about playing videos or looking at images in the terminal? I dunno any other distro that can do that, but it's a built in feature of Bodhi's default terminal. "tycat filename.mp4" or "tycat filename.png" displays right there. Even there in scrollback. And You can even run terminology in a tty if you want scrollback and graphics there. That being said, there's always things I could complain about too.... like, why no friggen scrollbars....

Thanks for another great post - great fun

So dual pane is missing from Thunar file manager. No support let alone full GVfs support with seamless access to remote file systems ability to handle sftp://, dav://, smb://, etc. Also lacking is an API to resolve folder symbolic links properly to "open the parent folder", not the symbolic link's folder. AFAIK Thunar cannot control the desktop either. Yet Thunar still has crashing bug; not a good start and consumes more RAM than PcmanFM
Apparently all those heavy gizmo managers are prone to crashing and many other issues.

To see how fast, light, purposeful and gizmo free PcmanFM is check out this YT… Pcmanfm (Other GUI File Managers need not apply)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7f56LvvpWho

You say - “One thing people rarely report is Bodhi being slow, even with the "bling" features enabled.” Hey just watch the video at 1:45 in showing menu shading green animation trying to keep up with pointer – how slow is that…?
Better make a quick screencast of Antix menu highlighting – you can go as fast as you like without detecting any lag.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuHZRwjsBvM

PcmanFM last updated in 2021 – Er when was Enlightenment-17 updated – was it 2012…?

Thanks for clearing up the breadcrumbs – I feed them to the birds in our garden - “Pcmanfm doesn't offer such a feature.” nor does it need it – use the split panel or “Go” previous from menu or use keyboard Alt+Left. Most people would open in a new tab leaving the original tab in place – Simples Give me speed, simplicity and stability over toy town gizmos.

Talking of RAM consuming gizmos like the Cat+dancing rainbow as you type, pulsating highlights etc; great to hear you switch them off I go one better and use Synaptic to completely remove them from my system as I did with Thunar, Plank, tint2 and that compositor along with a shedload of unwanted baggage – five WMs (See AntiX). Yes – that's not a typo - 5! Just today I deleted that YT search and view app. I also often use terminal with ‘sudo apt autoremove’ to clear up the crumbs. Why carry garbage around…?
I take what you and others say about major apps not being the cause of a heavy distro but I am guided by my own experience of deleting shedloads of baggage resulting in less resource use at idle and in play. Causing havoc on all forums but our LQ when showing Trisquel-LXDE at 112MiB or Loc-OS at 88MiB. They often attack by saying I am using cut down software with little light apps, then the KDE fanboys come out in an orchestrated pincer movement – Hahaha
Conversely when I made my first miniMAX setup by throwing lots of heavy Apps like FreeCAD, Gimp, LO, Pitivi video editor etc at Trisquel-mini LXDE, RAM at idle went up from 112 to 240MiB

Then we come to Bodhi terminology,,,,, oops is that an app - Like badge engineering or food E-Nos they are there to fool the average punter into believing they have something special or are hiding uncomfortable truths – Why call the panel; Shelf – it is just a tint-panel for a WM as far as I can tell.
However let’s not distract from a good, perhaps unique light distro which would be great to have on the list. Give your kids a project to produce a sub 60sec screencast or dated, timed, screenshots showing overall RAM at 200MiB or under at idle with the App Pack version visible - cool

Just watch the first two minutes of the link above to see how slow Bodhi is..!

Now as promised here is the video link…..

https://imgur.com/a/CMcOuJi LXDE Speed + B-Bunny + 149 + Loc,p,Linux88

Unlike the Bodhi Moksha video you can see that the menu highlights keep pace with the pointer – and that is with the CPU and RAM being used for recording live screencast vido on the old 2008 Hp T5800 3GiB RAM laptop. (No host computer being used – see recorder icon in the task bar)
https://i.imgur.com/2tSi9Tg.jpg 149 Task Manager

I've learned the funnest time to reply to you is when I've been drinking, and shouldn't be posting! Mainly cuz I don't think anyone really takes you seriously and nobody is really reading this. And really, I have no clue about cat dancing rainbow highlights, that's not a bodhi thing at all....

You realize Bodhi hasn't used Enlightenment 17 for more than ten years, right? Moksha is not E17, it was FORKED FROM e17 a decade ago cuz E18 wasn't "good enough" for Bodhi, and there's been ten years of development since then. Enlightenment itself has evolved too, they're up to version 25 or 26... and Bodhi keeps up to date with their libraries, and Moksha sometimes ports their new features.... and e itself is pretty decent today, but no distro features it...

I only half understand what you say tho. For example, thunar works fine with sftp. I dunno those other letters. I'm not aware of any issue of main version of thunar crashing, it certainly doesn't happen for me. But yeah the old version doesn't do dual pane, gotta open it twice. I bet the current version resolved that, I dunno... but anyways irrelevant if we're trying to argue about Bodhi cuz the only version they provided was the stable boring version without dual pane.

One thing about bodhi, nobody cares if you install other apps. It only comes with what, 5 GUI apps total? Remove thunar, install pcmanfm or nemo or nautilus, that's fine. Whatever you like. It's a minimal base for you to install whatever you want. (Note on LXDE you can install another file manager if you prefer, but you cannot remove pcmanfm as it does the desktop background and files).

I'm not much into watching youtube videos, but I'll take your word for it. If you really need a picture, a still image speaks 1000 words and you can post it here for others to see!

As to the breadcrumbs feature, I used to use pmanfm with bodhi 4.5/5.0 back in the day and never cared about the feature either, until I started using it, and it turns out, it is rather convenient. Its also present in every modern file manager besides pcmanfm. It's one of those features you don't miss until you've used it.

One of the few apps bodhi does come with is synaptic, but I'm comfortable with apt so rarely use it. I do like it's ability to sort search results by installed version.... anwyays not sure what your comment about synaptic was about, its just a gui version of apt so you don't have to figure out fancy syntax for some stuff.

During terminology discussions you often refer to tint. That is what makes my windows dark. In any case, bodhi uses the enlightenment terms for stuff, and I agree it's dumb they're different from windows or xfce terms. I also agree it's dumb newer desktops didnt use the xfce or windows terms. Why say the same thing a different way. In windows, the whole bar is called a taskbar. Then I come to linux, its just the section of the bar that lists tasks is the taskbar, the rest is a shelf or a panel. WHO CARES. It only takes like 10 seconds to learn if you try, and then it's done. Here's one I really hate... what windows calls "quicklaunch" is what bodhi calls "ibar" but what bodhi calls "quicklaunch" is a friggen app menu/launcher/app searcher. WHY? I DUNNO BUT ITS DUMB. Other parts of Bodhi call it "everything starter". DUMB DUMB DUMB. I really hope this is only an english problem, I hope other languages used the same terms for the same thing.... but if not, it's really just a minor annoyance (that'll annoy you the rest of your life!!!)

If installing an application causes increased idle memory usage, it's likely because it installed a service. The majority of apps don't do that. That is a distro agnostic thing, unless your distro already includes such apps. Bodhi only includes what it considers the necessary minimum, anything else you install that takes memory is your own issue, but it would be the same on any distro that didnt include it already.

I am posting from a 200mb XFCE I'd recommend for 32-bit machines: https://archive.org/details/Puppy_Linux_X-tahr

But to begin with a general caveat, what is meant by 200mb?

If I chose to boot Lubuntu, the boot partition would still be mounted/attached & I wouldn't think about the size of the os, more how much ram it is using in operation.

In X-Tahr puplet frugal mode, literally the whole os is compressed in ram w/no media required after boot. Intuitively this takes more processor work for relative significance (generally not as much as the benefits). My X-Tahr is about 200mb with the default browser removed, & I wouldn't expect to find the likes of it in another common distro family.

Of course, if you start including big apps as part of the os like browsers, Libre, & Gimp, 200mb on storage media is whimsical humor. So why bother with the size restrictions?

The apps are still available, if not installed, standalone or as 'loaded' compressed squash files.

X-Tahr has a quirk on my desktop I'd happy to commiserate if anyone got this far.

X-Tahr is also what's called a puplet, a tweak of an official release by an advanced user.

XFCE is not a standard Puppy flavor, but big new XFCE 64-bit puplets are being developed.

X-Tahr is smallest functional XFCE I've seen.

It's very unlikely that you'll find any distro with a proper desktop environment (i.e. not just a window manager) using less than 200 MB of RAM after a fresh boot, unless using ancient versions of kernel and packages.

Also, to measure the real memory consumption you shouldn't use 'top' or 'free' or many of the task managers available, including LXDE, LXQt and GNOME ones, to name just a few. To get the real memory consumption you actually don't need any application, just call this in the terminal:

Anyway, if you still want to use 'top' or 'free' to keep your current reference, the best I can recommend is PorteuX LXDE (or even LXQt). You'll have modern kernel and packages (including recent LXDE + patches) and insanely fast boot times, like 3 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJd38Nch6rQ.

Finally, to measure the real memory consumption you shouldn't test in any virtual machine because the numbers in this case will always be lower when compared to the real machine.

Good luck

Think you missed: The List so far - #54

ps try sudo ps_mem.py most people though are more familiar with Htop or free -h

I never use VMs - I prefer full installation - cheers

I think you're not listening to people. Let's take Loc-OS and compare it against PorteuX:

1- Loc-OS LXDE comes with kernel 5.10, released in 2020. PorteuX LXDE comes with kernel 6.2.7, released in March 2023.
2- Loc-OS LXDE comes with mpv 0.32.0, released in 2020. PorteuX comes with mpv 0.35.1, released in January 2023.
3- Loc-OS LXDE comes transmission 3.00, released in 2020. PorteuX comes with transmission 4.0.2, released in March 2023.
4- Loc-OS LXDE comes xmms audio player 1.2.11, released in 2007 (!). PorteuX comes with audacious audio player 4.3, released in March 2023.
5- Loc-OS LXDE compiles its LXDE against GTK2, which contains some known bugs (like back mouse button not working while in pcmanfm list view mode). PorteuX LXDE compiles its LXDE against GTK3.
6- Loc-OS LXDE takes 631 MB of RAM after a live boot (real usage), or 335 MB using top/free application. This is far from 200 MB. I made a video to prove: https://youtu.be/3mZj9nLpFDw. PorteuX LXDE takes 880 MB (real usage) or 384 MB (using top/free).
7- Loc-OS LXDE ISO takes 1.4 GB, this is more than 3 times PorteuX LXDE ISO size, which is 404 MB. Even including an office suite, gimp and firefox, PorteuX would not even get close to 1 GB.
8- Loc-OS LXDE takes 16 seconds to boot on my machine, while PorteuX LXDE takes half of that.

I could go on and on. Now, I'm not saying Loc-OS is a bad distro because it is not; it's actually pretty nice in many aspects and it's very snappy. What me and others are trying to say is that you're not listening and you keep repeating the same things that are simply not correct.

There's no magic here. These minimalist distros are doing all they can do shave every MB, and if one of them takes less RAM or disk size, it's because they're compromising something (probably on purpose, which is fine).

I'm with you on the mission to have a snappy and efficient system. I just think you're using the wrong tools and metrics to achieve that.

1 members found this post helpful.

You would think with all the legendary difficulties of setting up Slackware and coping with the disastrous DistroWatch review of Porteus that you of all people would be able to set up an easy peasy installation of simple Loc-OS LXDE distro? LOL

So without further bilge from the sinking Slackware ship I just made a quick single take video with my old Samsung NX-mini Camera to counter your crap video. There are so many YT videos of Loc-OS independent of Nico at Locos por Linux I fail to see why you should bother – it only serves to shine alight on your inadequateness in setting up a Linux distro…

Here is the imgur link to my Loc-OS LXDE on a decade old laptop. Single first take from cryp boot to shutdown without any edit or tricks simply uploaded to imgur…

https://imgur.com/5OcjGbj Enjoy

We all await your equivalent video of Porteux with Ffox-ESR and a pro writing package plus Gimp loaded…

Would be great if the Slackers could post same for our amusement...

How would you know whether it's difficult or not if you've never tried it? "Legendary" means fictional.
I'm not all that bothered about how long it takes for my computers to boot up. Never timed them. The laptops with SSDs are faster than the desktop with an HDD.
Anyway, carry on with your anti-Slackware rants - water off a duck's back.

The SlackTroll trolls again…

Please stop the trolling - cheers

Try and create an original Topic yourself outside of slackware
Or is that beyond your capabilities?

As you can see all across my topics the Slack trolls a’trolling. Have you noticed how increasingly desperate they have become lately? Understandable you might say; as Slackware has nothing to offer that can be recommended...
They think our LQ membership and visitors will take notice of their desperate troll posts over the much respected reviews from DistroWatch…
In fact DistroWatch have many years experience with Slackware and it still makes his brain hurt as to why it still exists today other than for diehards.
Recently a Slacker posted Porteux – the Next Experience, in our General forum category – I presume he was too embarrassed to mention Slackware as he sneaked his Topic into the General category rather than in the Slackware category where he should have put it. As with anything else using slackware after reading DistroWatch reviews – possibly the worst reviews that I have ever read anywhere; I have read a lot of reviews, who would want to take up slackware?

After waiting six years for an update you still need many steps (9) including installing troublesome LiLo; linux loader and a disk partitioning tool then build your kernel, to install slackware – it’s still a complicated, convoluted process to install a simple application – I lost the will to live watching an installation video - Will they ever learn? Then when installed slackware has no secure boot, long lists of security issues and seems to use over a Gig of RAM to do next to nothing - Yikes

https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?i...220919#porteus
https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?i...0214#slackware
https://9to5linux.com/slackware-15-0...ernel-5-15-lts

Loved that bit in the review - “removing unnecessary packages and their dependencies” – thanks to DistroWatch for vindicating my approach and bang on topic – how ironic..?

So lets get back to my topic OP #1 Excess Baggage – unnecessary packages

thanks

Three times you've written that now. Repetition could be a bad sign at your age.
As for the rest of your drivel about Slackware, it proves what I thought: you've never actually used it.