As americans probably do not know, the World Cup is starting soon, and most of the rest of the workd is very excited about it. As happens every time there is a large international football competition, many english people start putting out flags, and here's where i get annoyed.

In england our flag


################
################
################
################
################

is generally taken to mean "I want England to win the foobar cup" as opposed to "I love my country, the people who live there and the values it stands for". To me this is just a horrible situation to be in. I'm not the kind of person who would put up a flag anyway, but if i were i would be taken for being a mere football fan, not someone proud to be English, which beleive it or not, i am.

Do any other english members here have this opinion? does this phenomenon occur anywhere else?

Obviously this isn't going to be an issue in america, as america never competes internatioonally at anything other than the olypmics and other small scale things... but then maybe i'm wrong there too. People in britain mock America and their peoples patriotism, but I reckon they've got it right to some extent, they just generally do it in a crude ham-fisted and tacky way!

I havn't noticed that in Canada. We generally wear/fly our flag for patriotic reasons.

Actually, I think the States has a team going to the World Cup. Granted soccer isn't historically the most popular sport in America. We, as a nation, get pretty excited about the World Series, Super Bowl, Stanley Cup, the NBA playoffs, the NCAA "Sweet 16", the Rose Bowl, ad naseum. My guess is the rest of the world doesn't. Although, baseball and hockey are international in that both have Canadian teams.

You have to understand that, until the 1920's, United States foreign policy was very isolationist. It was Woodrow Wilson who advocated America being the beacon of freedom. In fact, this wasn't the popular political opinion until post-WWII. America wasn't a big player on the world stage and we weren't really interested. Couple that with the fact that modern/organized soccer is a British invention. Americans in the early 19th century weren't interested in anything British (we love you guys now)!

As far as the flag phenomenon, that happens here on Memorial Day and July 4th rather than during sporting events. Personally, I'm a year 'round American flag flier. I don't like convenience patriotism much either. But, I figure two days a year is better than never.

It's interesting to note that Britians show their patriotism in a crude, ham-fisted, and tacky way too.

Our team did go to the World Cup 4 years ago. They did prety well, too. I hope they do even better this time.

Having said that, I must agree with Arow that soccer is not a very popular sport here. We have a pretty big soccer population, but it doesn't translate into the kind of enthusiasm seen with other, American-born sports such as baseball, basketball and (American) football.

Basketball is a Canadian born sport daihard

I'm pretty sure that no one who shows a lot of patriotism is being intentionally ham-fisted, crude, or tacky. Cultural differences possibly just make it seem that way to others.

Well unless you're directly referring to me there, i'd be interested to hear your examples of this... all too often in england everyone just says england is rubbish.

The rest of the country may not notice, but DC is absolutely mad about football. Most sports bars I've seen show every world cup match on their big screen sets and you can see people wearing jerseys from their favorite teams/countries on almost every street.

Chelsey played an exhibition match here against DC's local pro team, DC United, and the stadium was sold out.

I was only referring to your comments. I don't know you and wouldn't presume to comment on your patriotism. You just seemed to imply that the English only show their patriotism in response to a large sporting event and that seems rather tacky.

Honestly, I didn't understand your comment regarding Americans' crude and tacky patriotism. Which you really didn't provide any examples of either. Your post did seem to attack Americans and, admittedly, it was a little jab.

I think truthfatal hit the nail on the head...cultural differences. But, I'll bet we're not that different in a lot of ways too.

oh right yes, fair enough. i'd guess that most people don't even see it is patriotism though... just a footy game and lots of lager... it's just "what you do"

God forbid it!

...... time for me to find some history book.

I think that our problem in England is that we have no identity. Scots, Welsh and Irish people have their internationally recognised saints and flags whereas we either get to share a flag (Union Jack) or have this unrecognised saint - George. So when we do "fly the flag" it tends to be a particular cross/sub section of society that does it.

Without looking it up: tell me when St George's Day is, what he is recognised for and what special things we should do on his day.

bet that wouldn't be the case if it somehow happened to traditionally involve drinking like a certain other one does...

It's not...remember Springfield,Mass and the whole story about the peach basket? Plus if you think about it, there is clearly not enough ice (or beer) involved for it to be a Canadian sport

@kewpie: I think in the U.S. there is a different amount of significance tied into what the flag is supposed to represent and a level of reverence that you don't find in alot of countries. Every morning all throughout primary and secondary schools in America, childern turn and look at the flag and recite the Pledge of Allegiance "to the Flag". In retrospect that's kind of freaky. But it isn't just a symbol of where we live, it represents all those that fought and died for the Freedoms(TM) we have in this country. So for many, desecrating the flag is quite literally taken as an insult to those people.

I actually had a conversation with a number of co-workers today about the world cup and was suprised at the level of interest. A number of them were really following it and knew some of the better teams and players. A few not so much. The only problem is going to be finding a pub that opens early enough.

Probably true: "they just generally do it in a crude ham-fisted and tacky way!", but I can't think of a superpower that hasn't acted in that manner. Spain in the 1600's, Britain from the 1700's to the late 1800,s, and the USA now. In the case of Spain and Britain you could even change crude to cruel and ham-fisted to iron-fisted. That is not meant as an insult but in my opinion is just the nature of the beast. That being said I fly my flag and turn around and defend some punks freedom of speech rights to deface it.

In Australia, people don't really fly the Flag, except on Australia Day and ANZAC Day.

For sporting events it comes out, along with the "Boxing Kangaroo". Australia is sports mad, so we see it quite frequently at those sort of events. We have a team in the World Cup, and hopefully we will get beyond the 1st round

I find that on Australia Day (Sydney's Birthday), I find the use of the flag sometimes inappropriate. People wrap themselves in the flag, drink p155 to excess all day and watch the fireworks in Perth. Then afterwards, the drunks get into a brawl - all while wrapped in the flag and yelling "Aussie Aussie Aussie, Oi Oi Oi".

Up until recently, we had a movement to change our flag. Some people (republicans) want to see the Union Jack removed. It seems now that people really respect the Australian Flag. Do any other countries want to change their flag, or are they happy with the one they have got ?

--Ian