So, rkelsen, do you think that had the Titanic sunk in Southhampton or Queenstown harbors, instead of many kilometers at sea, those sitting on runabouts and yachts in those harbors would have just ordered another cuppa and a cigar and found it an amusing distraction?

Forgive me for saying so, sundialsvcs ol' buddy, but I think someone has infused your water with an unhealthy does of "the KoolAid". Considering Republicans, even many literally appointed by Trump, could not come up with a single disturbing shred of evidence of voter fraud even remotely close enough to provide anything close to a Trump win, yet there are videos of numerous MAGA and QAnon operatives being denied entrance to electoral offices precisely to prevent what they were there to do, subvert the vote count in favor of Trump despite not being elected officials.

I urge you to view recent events in Michigan by Republican Officials in any source you choose but here's a recap by Forbes (hardly a voice of "The Libtards") linked here with full original url (notice it's NOT CNN, quite the opposite)-

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisond...h=5af55e90ba4e

IIRC, the number has increased to at least 16 fake electors, all MAGA.

They did find less that 1.0% of attempted voter fraud (less than 1% of 5.5 Million voters) but the highest percentage of fraud attempts were in Trump's favor AND his was the only organized attempt at fraud visible and audible on film and there are recorded phone calls, tweets and letters of high ranking Republican officials, including Trump, asking for loyal members to "find me the votes I need to win".

Sundialsvcs, I submit to you that Trump tells the working class what they want to hear as a Trojan Horse and it won't be The Palace that burns. It will be where you and I live.

You are fake nooze!
It's worse than that. He's gone full QAnon. You're attempting to reason with someone whose capacity for reason is quite patently impaired. You will not succeed.

Like reasoning with someone who does or doesn't believe e.g. in God: one's ['certain'] thinking/thoughts [->'belief'] create their reality.

And it may be 'Politically Incorrect' (as in: Thread Closed) to ?judge? someone ?ad hominem? ... Not that I care...


BTW, the USPS didn't postmark my ballot, so I got a text msg saying it was invalid (tho mailed on-time).
Contrary info: the state website says all UNpostmarked ballots are accepted as on-time!
So, is mail-in voting: random incompetence, or planned fraud? IDK (&don't care). UNuseable in any case.

While it is obvious that some people "go full QAnon" I don't see that as a reason to disown people or assume their "capacity for reason is quite patently impaired". People are completely capable of compartmentalization and after years of discourse with sundialsvcs, I find myself rather liking the man, or at least what I am exposed to here in text. We have some very deep disagreements but I enjoy his interest and knowledge in History and respect his intellect but more generally important I am aware that a lie told often enough can gain traction as truth. Any one of us can fall prey to seductive lies. I've watched videos of interviews with wide-ranging Trump supporters and most seem to be locked in to news sources that only serve to confirm what they already feel. Few are even aware of Trump's public statements honoring other dictators or his own aspirations to become like them.

I pointed out words from "the horse's mouth" via Forbes as one example of how solid the evidence actually is that "Stop the Steal" is an empty slogan only, a repeated lie or possibly simply a fantasy that Trump actually believes, because his ego just can't stand even the possibility of losing. That gives him an air of confidence and that is extremely attractive and charismatic. It is also quite dangerous.

It's well documented that all of Trump's claims about election fraud in the 2020 election were false. You can research Trump's comments, mostly on social media and then compare these to the actual ballot results and there is no correlation there. Similar to the claims that Obama's electing into office was based on vote rigging - i.e. registering ineligible people to vote. To this day there is not one shred of tangible evidence.

That's what's called electioneering - some of those loyal to either of the two main parties suck this kind of propaganda up quite readily. The fact that Trump was elected at all says a lot about the typical US voter (though we're no better on this side of the pond), and Trump and his advisers knew how to manipulate that herd successfully. Both sides use gutter tactics however, as their aim is to manipulate the masses into electing them into office at any cost, so that they can continue representing themselves and the millionaires and billionaires they serve.

But while the "crooked Hilary" campaign worked out well (for various reasons) to get Trump elected in the first place - eventually people start to see through that - and shaking faith in the electoral system ultimately works against all parties, to decrease turnout and increase voter apathy. It's obvious that his handling of the "covid phase" was instrumental in his downfall, as he failed to stick to the narrative (which he should have done if he wanted to survive the next election), but also his constant jabs at the opposition's credibility/morality and accusations of vote rigging, while mired in his own corruption scandals, only display a breath taking arrogance.

Is the underlined bit in your link? I do agree with hazel that any systemic/organized, Nation-wide effort to steal votes by Dems would have leaked by now.

So, why was there never a trial? Several US States attempted to bring a "timely action" in the only Court that was Constitutionally required to hear their case ... and, no case was ever heard. Despite the plain language of "Article 3, Section 2," they were informed that they "had no standing." In this way, six people effectively silenced the voice of more than 100 million.

Likewise at several other levels: "no case was ever permitted." They were all discarded, on various administrative pretenses.

Given the profound gravity of assertions of "election fraud at the national level," in which literally every one of (today) over 336 million people can call themselves "a plaintiff," why was this matter never adjudicated? And, why does this continue to be the situation today?

If the Federal election in 2020 (and, 2022) was "tampered with," then this is a serious Federal Felony. Anyone who believes that this crime has been committed against them is supposed to be entitled to Judicial relief.

Why, then, and despite the abundance of findings that many people continue to pour out, has this matter never been brought before any Court?

There are, today, literally hundreds of millions of "plaintiffs" who still are legally entitled to their day in Court. But, the Court [strangely ... and, I think, illegally ...] still "declines" to hear them. Let them come forward and – if this happens – be resoundingly "proven" wrong. But, "hear ye, hear ye," let them come forward.

"The Honorable Court" is not(!) entitled to tell them: "No, I'd rather not listen to you." But every single one of them, "as one," did.

Disputes can always be brought in courts. There are several things that can stop a case, one is standing see https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/standing. If there is no real dispute, or you are not a party to the dispute in question, you have no standing to bring the case.

Another is jurisdiction: you cannot bring a case in a court that does not have primary jurisdiction. (in this context, venue also matters but I have No legal training and would have to research to understand proper venue and how that relates. I would rather you do your own research of the vocabulary and side issues.)

When you bring a case you must be able to prove that you are bringing a real dispute, to which you have valid standing as one of the parties, and that you are bringing it in the proper court for this action.

In the case you mentioned, they failed to establish proper standing. That does not have to end a case, but it means that you need to correct what has been missed and bring one of the proper parties in the dispute question into the case and re-address the court. That did not happen. Perhaps the case was technically unsupportable and that COULD not happen, but that would be the fault of hose who tried to bring the case and not the fault of the court.

Disclaimer: this is MY lay opinion from having read FAR MORE CASE DISCUSSIONS that I am comfortable with and no training whatever in law. If anyone with a legal degree would chime in with corrections or better explanation I would be thrilled. Seriously, I would rather look silly or wrong than have bad information stand! We have FAR too much bad information already.

Now that Haley is out of the race it is a certainty that the Biden/Trump death match 2.0 is coming. I'm curious to see if Elon or others will rescue Trump and pay his tab. The SCOTUS has all but guaranteed that Trump won't be convicted prior to November 5th.
Maybe Trump will be brought down by a porn star.

I personally can not validate every single vote.

No credible election official or expert has publicly stated there was systemic voter fraud or massive overturning of votes even by those hired by Trump himself.

No "independent" audit or recount has shown any systemic voter fraud or massive overturning of votes.

No credible evidence exists that election machine votes were overturned by Martians, satellites or by Hugo Chavez.

No credible evidence exists of voter rigging has been shown even from the My Pillow Guy or the film 2000 Mules.

No, it was not or I would have included it within the Forbes quotes. It was mentioned in some of the many interviews with Michigan officials but I didn't see a gaggle of Dems showing up en masse trying to gain forbidden access to the count by faking out the guards. When you realize the actual religious fervor common to hardcore MAGA, QAnon, Proud Boys, etc. (just look at some of the T-shirts, posters, and banners) I am reminded of my High School days doing a term paper on The Gunpowder Plot. The most radical, including Jesuit Priests subscribed to what they termed "equivocation" aka "lying for a good cause". I found that almost as disgusting as actually attempting to blow up hundreds of people where innocents were "acceptable collateral damage". The Dems wish they were that organized and loyal. I'm glad they aren't and prefer Republicans return to real Conservative values instead of engaging in chaotic rabble rousing or cowardice..

Some perspective from the outside: Why do millions of Americans believe the 2020 presidential election was stolen from Donald Trump?

Well it coulda been those pesky Jewish Space Lasers

Trump won his first election because he was able to tap into a huge reservoir of partly justified anger in working class men and women who had been systematically attacked and downvalued by rich Democratic intellectuals. I remember hearing on the news that Hilary Clinton had called Trump supporters "a basket of deplorables" and thinking, "She's just lost the election". A lot of people who were reluctantly preparing to hold their noses and vote for her decided not to after that. Trump also won a bigger black vote and a bigger Latino vote than any previous Republican candidate. I suspect a lot of those people were angry small shopkeepers who had seen their businesses wrecked by BLM rioters whom the Democrats refused to condemn.

If you don't like populism and don't want people to vote for populist candidates, stop treating them as if they and their concerns don't count.