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Old 05-28-2013, 08:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
This isn't about me or others being guilty and worrying because we will be caught. I guarantee you that I will never be caught even if I were guilty. This is about the entertainment industry mounting an offensive against all of its customers. What gives them the right to install anything on my computer without my permission, much less malware ! It is beyond imagination what they want, it is the very essence of madness and oppression.

This attitude that the media and politicians are putting out "If you are an honest man (nothing to hide), you have nothing to fear or worry." is pure BS. They want to monitor your every activity and even if they suspect you of anything, you are automatically guilty ... like the strikes rules they put out on piracy. You just have to be suspected not proven. I ask what these politicians have to hide ... I'll bet they have a whole lot to hide ... much more than I do. The only difference is that they have the power.
I agree with you on this. I just found the premise of your original post that it affects only those in the thrall of big media and, therefore, putting yourself above them was a little patronising.
We are all affected by this though, of course, if we care we should change our buying habits accordingly or admit to complicity.
 
Old 05-28-2013, 08:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
It is our future though unless H_TeXMeX_H has never bought or rented a film, gone to the movies or watched television that is paid for and/or has adverts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Anyway this is about DRM not music CDs I purchased back in 1987 when I got my first CD player.
Comon guys, read the report, or at least skim it.

It is NOT about DRM, or MP3s, ripped DVDs etc.. 'Media' is mentioned once, and its in now the press, not musc/video. 'Music' is mentioned 4 times, 1 mention in 'types of IP theft' and 3 beating on China. Sure, it could be connected to them, but the main thrust of this report is industrial 'IP'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
If you don't have, or have never had, things on your computer that you shouldn't have then you have nothing to worry about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
I don't believe in stealing anything so I don't have to worry.
Get real.

For this idea to work, they will need to have a program on your system that analyses every file on your computer. Not just audio/video files, but all sorts of text as well. The results will have to be sent online for processing (while it would be possible to process the results locally, it would be less 'trustable'). So even if you are as pure as the driven snow, dont get caught with a false positive or have some linux/BSD package flagged as 'IP theft', you will still be paying for it, in bandwidth, disc access and CPU use.

Thats besides the really nasty stuff that is not reccomended 'at this time' but are still in the report, like 'Reccomend that congress and the administration authorise agressive cyber actions agains IP theives'. If people think they they will be safe and unaffected by oopen, unlimited cyberwar (even if they are not targeted) they havent been thinking that hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Seriously if they took control of peoples PCs there would be an outcry of massive proportions. If there wasn't then the people involved are sheep ready to be led to a slaughter.
There would be a counter argument that you're already made- 'If you don't have, or have never had, things on your computer that you shouldn't have then you have nothing to worry about'.

Its a joke though, for this sort of idea to work they would need the cooperation of the OS makers. Microsoft and Apple might agree, or have no choice about the matter...but the rest of the world? Nope. No-one with half a brain in (non-US) government, science or industry would let a 'index *.* with the power to shut down everything' program onto the system.

Last edited by cascade9; 05-28-2013 at 09:01 AM. Reason: typos
 
Old 05-28-2013, 02:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Its a joke though, for this sort of idea to work they would need the cooperation of the OS makers. Microsoft and Apple might agree, or have no choice about the matter...but the rest of the world? Nope. No-one with half a brain in (non-US) government, science or industry would let a 'index *.* with the power to shut down everything' program onto the system.
If Microsoft and Apple decide to insert in their OSes that kind of feature, that will affect probably 99 % of Desktop
machines. Running any of the BSDs or Linux will probably mark you as a suspect, and there will soon be demands
that web sites or companies that distribute Linux or BSD either close or adopt the same features in the OS.
There may also be a move to insert such features deeper in the computer hardware (by some extension of UEFI for instance). The majority of users will not care, as this will have been sold to them as a technical measure to protect
them from hackers.

As to the non-US governments, they too are sensitive to lobbying by music, movie and software industry.
What the future could look like is:
(1) tightly controlled personal computers/mobile devices for users of Web/multimedia content
(2) Mainframes in governement, science and industry with filtered network access

Maybe bricking a computer that contains supposedly pirated content is too extreme, but one could imagine
a registration process of computer CPUs (when the computer is bought or when its CPU is replaced)
combined with a scan of all files and a comparison of digital signatures of the files with those of in an online
database. In case of a match, the computer would use the serial number of the CPU to identify its owner and
check that the owner has purchased a license to use the file.

That does not look like a too pleasant future, and we may well end up missing our vinyl records, printed books and
magazines, and 8 bit 64K RAM microcomputers from 30 years ago.
 
Old 05-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #19
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How Hard is it to Get Caught Pirating?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcmKd18M8B0
 
Old 05-28-2013, 03:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annonyxxxx View Post
How Hard is it to Get Caught Pirating?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcmKd18M8B0
I don't know about that specific measure but I've met a few people who have been sent threatening letters by various legal firms due to file sharing.
A couple of them only got "cease and desist" letters but I know of two or three who paid -- one whom took legal advice and settled out of court.
So, are you feeling lucky?
 
Old 05-28-2013, 04:02 PM   #21
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Of course, I don't believe everything in the video, that is his own opinion and research.

Last edited by annonyxxxx; 05-28-2013 at 04:28 PM.
 
Old 05-28-2013, 05:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
I'm sorry but that just does not follow.
You may be OK (I've no reason to doubt your word) but how does that mean that every innocent person is OK?
If the content-provider for the media somebody downloaded goes bust do you think they should have their computer shut down until they can provide receipts to the RIAA/MPAA? Do you think somebody should have their PC locked if they receive a file through email or a malicious website link? How about somebody who downloaded mp3s of their favourite artist who has now changed record label? How about the person torrenting Slackware that finds out it's not Slackware because their cable box gets hacked shut by the RIAA/MPAA and is held to ransom until they can prove they wanted Slackware? How about the person who inserted the Sony CD whose PC then locked up -- are they criminals?
You are making a mountain out of a mole hill with hypothetical situations that are, to put it simply, born of hysteria.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
Comon guys, read the report, or at least skim it.

It is NOT about DRM, or MP3s, ripped DVDs etc..
Maybe try reading the title of the thread you are responding in, it specifically mentions DRM.
 
Old 05-28-2013, 05:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
You are making a mountain out of a mole hill with hypothetical situations that are, to put it simply, born of hysteria.
How about the real ones instead then:
Is it OK that Sony rootkitted people's PCs, creating a vulnerability later used by malware?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_rootkit
Is it OK that people who have done nothing wrong should have their internet access suspended?
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-10444879-261.html
Yeah, I'm hysterical, these things never cause any problems to people who've done nothing wrong. The above never happened did they? They can't have since, as you said, these things should only worry the guilty.
 
Old 05-28-2013, 07:49 PM   #24
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Maybe I am too trusting.

I will agree that the government has seemed to go against the honest person in my lifetime. Simple, subtle things to out right unbelievable actions by the elected officials has me wondering.

Simple things like getting banned by google was shown to LQ last year.

Sure, I have always believed that protecting rights of creators is a good thing. It was meant to develop ideas and creations in turn at some point the gain was to be transferred to public domain.

I can see things like stop light cameras used to "make money", seen IRS officials claim they did no wrong and then pleaded the Fifth Amendment. I've seen cops taking payoffs.

America ought to wake up to some of this.

Last edited by jefro; 05-28-2013 at 09:46 PM.
 
Old 05-28-2013, 09:07 PM   #25
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Quote:
That does not look like a too pleasant future, and we may well end up missing our vinyl records, printed books and
magazines, and 8 bit 64K RAM microcomputers from 30 years ago.
I already miss them.
 
Old 05-28-2013, 10:12 PM   #26
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This is more than about DRM. The government is in paranoia and they don't trust anybody.

Last edited by annonyxxxx; 05-28-2013 at 10:31 PM.
 
Old 05-29-2013, 12:18 AM   #27
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
How about the real ones instead then:
Is it OK that Sony rootkitted people's PCs, creating a vulnerability later used by malware?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_rootkit
Is it OK that people who have done nothing wrong should have their internet access suspended?
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-10444879-261.html
Yeah, I'm hysterical, these things never cause any problems to people who've done nothing wrong. The above never happened did they? They can't have since, as you said, these things should only worry the guilty.
Yes you are hysterical and until you start settling down nothing anyone says will do anything for you.
 
Old 05-29-2013, 08:34 AM   #28
cascade9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Maybe try reading the title of the thread you are responding in, it specifically mentions DRM.
Its not my fault that H_TeXMeX_H put DRM in the title, even though the link or original article is not about DRM at all. I'm a little disgused that other users here have done little research on or reading of the original document, and are discussing this as though its RIAA/MPAA produced the report.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
You are making a mountain out of a mole hill with hypothetical situations that are, to put it simply, born of hysteria.
IMO 273 is making a vaild point. There is no need for inflammatory comments that add nothing to the discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edorig View Post
As to the non-US governments, they too are sensitive to lobbying by music, movie and software industry.
What the future could look like is:
(1) tightly controlled personal computers/mobile devices for users of Web/multimedia content
(2) Mainframes in governement, science and industry with filtered network access
RIAA/MPAA arent behind this. If you read the report, it actually gives numbers that show that music and video is not what this is directed at.

A 2007 study estimates that the US ecomony loses 12.5 billion from sound piracy.
Another 2007 study estimates that the US ecomony loses 20.5 billion from movie piracy (page 52 if anyone cares)

The report says that loses from IP theft are 'likely to be over 300 billion' (page 2). So music and movies make up about 10% of the total.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edorig View Post
Maybe bricking a computer that contains supposedly pirated content is too extreme, but one could imagine
a registration process of computer CPUs (when the computer is bought or when its CPU is replaced)
combined with a scan of all files and a comparison of digital signatures of the files with those of in an online
database. In case of a match, the computer would use the serial number of the CPU to identify its owner and
check that the owner has purchased a license to use the file.
Nope, cant be done with CPU ID numbers (various reasons) and cant be done with filehashes/signatures (this report is taking a very braod view on 'IP' and it includes things like 'proprietary processes' in manufacturing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by edorig View Post
If Microsoft and Apple decide to insert in their OSes that kind of feature, that will affect probably 99 % of Desktop
machines. Running any of the BSDs or Linux will probably mark you as a suspect, and there will soon be demands
that web sites or companies that distribute Linux or BSD either close or adopt the same features in the OS.
There may also be a move to insert such features deeper in the computer hardware (by some extension of UEFI for instance).
The US could try going so far as to make linux 'illegal' (or at least making 'OSes without the super-spyware installed illegal').

There have already been serious accusations that echelon has been used for industrial spying (eg airbus). This system has far more scpoe for abuse....'what, some clever Indian has figured out how to make an anticancer drug that is very cheap and easy to produce? Hmm, lets strech this point with the manufacturing process, call it 'IP theft', lock the computers there, by the time they get the computers unlocked a US company will have a US patent on this new tech'.

That might be considered ridiculous, but it could happen, and I for one wouldnt trust the US inteligence agencies at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edorig View Post
The majority of users will not care, as this will have been sold to them as a technical measure to protect
them from hackers.
Maybe in the US, possibly in soem other countries, (and only the 'big money' mass media would try that, there are too many smart bloggers around).

China in patricular will never go for these measures, and if it was tried, there would be a lot of Chinese media screaming about the 'american imperialistic malware'. Those reports would spead to other countries as well.
 
Old 05-29-2013, 05:10 PM   #29
k3lt01
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
Its not my fault that H_TeXMeX_H put DRM in the title, even though the link or original article is not about DRM at all. I'm a little disgused that other users here have done little research on or reading of the original document, and are discussing this as though its RIAA/MPAA produced the report.....
It's not my fault 2 other people mentioned DRM and/or music before I made any suggestion about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade9 View Post
IMO 273 is making a vaild point. There is no need for inflammatory comments that add nothing to the discussion.
IMO 273 has been off track with this discussion from the get go. He has posted about DVDs, Music, Sony etc, when this report, as you mention, actually has very little to do with it. I made no inflammatory comment what-so-ever, I did however point out that he has made a mountain out of a molehill and using his posts and your posts putting them together anyone who cares to look should be able to see that.

You, and 273, can't have it both ways, it can't be an either or situation. Music and DRM can't be part of the topic from the begining and when someone says "if you haven't got anything on your PC that you shouldn't have then you have nothig to worry about" without mentioning either music of DRM in that post get grilled for that statement with the person doing the grilling bringing up music and DRM being in the thread title. Then we have the links, off topic by what you are saying, being thrown in. Do the rest of us ignore that? or do we reply to it? You have gone to great lengths here to tell everyone it has nothing to do with DRM and music etc even telling us percentages that are in the article. If it is in the article it is up for discussion and I'm not very impressed that you are trying to force everyone else into your line of discussion.
 
Old 05-29-2013, 06:08 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k3lt01 View Post
Yes you are hysterical and until you start settling down nothing anyone says will do anything for you.
You suggested that people with nothing they should not have have nothing to fear. I pointed out hypothetical situations where that may not be the case. I then, since you decided to accuse me of being hysterical for thinking, gave you examples of real world situations where innocent people were severely inconvenienced due to "copyright protectors".
In what way is backing up my claim that it is not only those who have illegal content who ought to worry hysterical?
Quote:
Originally Posted by linked article
Additionally, software can be written that will allow only authorized users to open files containing valuable information. If an unauthorized person accesses the information, a range of actions might then occur. For example, the file could be rendered inaccessible and the unauthorized userís computer could be locked down, with instructions on how to contact law enforcement to get the password needed to unlock the account.
We all know that anti-virus software has false positives and that those enforcing copyright have already damaged innocent users software (I refer you to the Sony debacle).
So, how am I being hysterical in thinking that the above could cause problems for those not guilty of any breach of copyright?
 
  


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