I almost never have trouble getting Linux installed so that it will boot and come up with some level of functionality. As an extreme case, with Knoppix I can be up and using Linux with full Internet connectivity in less than 5 minutes while it is cloning itself to a hard drive. The same is certainly NOT true with my experience with the MS NT/2K/XP installer which quickly becomes a convoluted and inflexible thing once the slightest thing goes wrong.

The hard part with Linux is getting all the applications and services working the way you want. Sure there are some automated gui's included with many distributions that help out, but they often fall short from getting everything going. There is quite a leaning curve to finding all the necessary docs learn how to do all manually as well. That said, the docs certainly exist and are freely available. So if you can't find the information you need, it only means you haven't found it yet. This is more than I can say about that other leading OS.

s certainly have a valid point when they express their frustration learning GNU/Linux however. We still have a long ways to go before we have a system that will install and configure easily on most any hardware combination and for most of the desired uses. The fact that the documentation is also disorganized and often out of date only makes things worse.

The good news is once you learn how to manually configure things in /etc, it become easier than with Windows because GNU & Linux components tend to do exactly what you tell them to do, which has not been my experience with Windows.

Me? Lol, I just contributed to the poll by voting 20+ hours to install Linux. This is roughly the amount of time it did take altogether and I wasn't enjoying it very much. My problem was nforce agpgart + radeon 9800. Not a good combo if your running default distro kernel of 2.4.20.

During those 20hrs I had one hell of a crash course in Linux not only to learn how to use the terminal but all the associated commands to use it efficiently. Then I went through about 5+ reinstalls trying to install agpgart drivers and ati card drivers. After loads of research I found the best way was to recompile the kernel to a version that supports agpgart +radeon cards. This took a good portion of my time plus a few reinstalls again trying to get a decent kernel!

Anyways, I got it done about a couple of days ago, I am now running kernel 2.4.22. The knowledge I picked up on the way was quite a large amount and I feel I have learnt the best way. I am now using Linux for my work and Windows for games.

One last thing, Linux rocks and the time it took was well worth it!

Go to Fedora Apt and download apt and synaptic install these rpms using rpm -ihv apt*rpm and then rpm -ihv synaptic*.rpm after opening an Xterm and cd to the directory where you downloaded the files to issue these commands.

Now once they are installed you just choose synaptic in your menu, I believe it is under System Settings. Then hit Update in synaptic and then type in kernel in the search field and choose the kernel-source package that matches your current kernel. Now you will be able to install the NVIDIA drivers.

One step to do before installing the NVIDIA driver, when you reboot your computer go into your BIOS using F2 and change your screen to use LCD only, there will be no more flicker at your console.

HTH By the way I am also running a Dell 2650 and have had no problems with the NVIDIA drivers after making that change in the BIOS

To paraphrase Forest Gump:

Linux is like a box of chocolates. You don’t know if it will install until you try it.


The last time I worked with anything like Linux was with command line UNIX in 1981 and I would say that Linux has come a long way since then.

Over the past month, I have tried Linux installations on two systems: One very old AMD K6-2 based system (it installed with minor problems) and a very new Hyperthread Pentium (Dell Precision 360 Workstation) with serial ATA (SATA) drives (not successful yet, those pesky SATA drives!).

From my vantage point, it seems like your first experience with a Linux installation should be on a mainstream computer that is a few years old, so that most of the Linux related hardware bugs have already been worked out. Also, it would be nice if someone “down the hall” already had a functional Linux system to look at and to talk about. I feel sorry for anyone who tries to install Linux and never operated a command line system like DOS, UNIX or Linux.

As for the hardware problems that I have run into, I feel like I have been transported in a time machine back to 1994, when I was stuck trying to get an internal modem to work under Windows 3.1. The level of knowledge needed to get a card or peripheral working today under Linux seems to be similar to what was needed ten years ago under DOS or windows (if 3.1 can really be called Windows).

Even with all of today’s web resources, it is really hard to find the information you need (if it even exists) to get problem hardware to work. But I have to complement Red Hat and Dell on being very helpful with my problems, but my 60 days of Red Hat installation support is running out fast.

Bottom Line: It was all worth the trouble and I got a network file server for backing up other systems out of the deal. Time will probably solve my SATA problem. I hope it doesn’t take a couple of years.

you did not try hard enough, I have over 900 megs of linux documentation, how to's, text, html, pdf, user guides, and tutorials!! these are out on the NET, if one is willing to take the time to find them, they are there.

ha ha, you don't know what hell is!! it took me 3 weeks to finally get 3D acceleration going for my Nvidia card when I first installed Slackware, and I did not want to ask how to do it, I read everything I could find and figured it out for myself!!!

If you had asked, We could have told you that the Kernel source and/or the Kernel headers packages were not installed or were installed improperly!!

Wow, 5 days.......Some of us have been using Linux over 5+ years and we still don't know everything and we are still learning........and besides, if we want to upgrade our hardware We don't Have to call UNCLE BILL GATES and get PERMISSION like you would using XP!! remember WPA is the enemy of privacy!!

I couldn't agree with you more!

If you're looking for an alternative OS, that will just run out of the box, and give you a ready-to-go-workstation; ---forget Linux. If, on the other hand you've got a whole bunch of free time on your hands and you want a new hobby of Fixin' and Fussin' with an OS that is still in development, load a half a dozen or more Linux distros and start tearing your hair out.

I'll check in with you in a few years.... and we'll take another look at Linux (or whatever has taken its place by then). I used to think MS Windows OS was not all that much to brag about.... now after spending some time with a few Linux distros, I have a new respect for the Win OS.

It sounds like your best suited to an OS that is easy to use for the masses. If you really wanted a lot of flexibility and configurability in your OS you would make more of an attempt to find the massive amounts information in forums, how-to's etc.

Time is a factor to be considered when setting up Linux on a recent machine, and if you havent got the time, why bother. You're only missing out on the many advantages Linux has to offer.

Its true that the OS is in development but then again which OS isn't. M$ has'nt managed to create Windows without having countless numbers of flaws in it. This mainly consists of security flaws and the occasional driver flaw (my own personal experience = 8yrs running Windows).
I believe that Linux is very secure which is reflected by the fact that it is doing very well in the server market.
When you have sorted working drivers out for Linux you can sit back and relax.

If you cant be a***d learning how to use linux, then cool, go and stick with what you know.

But your quite wrong to imply that Windows is not in active development. And why do you need to fix and fuss with your linux box? Once it's setup it just works. You'll spend much more time rebooting, reinstalling apps and reinstalling the OS with windows that you ever could setting up a linux box. Even if it takes you weeks to get it right.

_Other_ people make the transition all the time. After they use an alternate OS from Windows for a while they _loose_ all remaining respect for Microsoft. Why do you think people dont go back once they have actually run with linux for a bit? I converted. Am I smarter that you are? Probably not, I'm quite useless really

Your suffering because you cant just do stuff in linux the way your've been programed to by MS. Congrats. You are a prisoner of HRH Bill of Borg. Break free man! Jump the fence and run for it I'ts not too late!

Just remember, he's going to want his tax payment from you soon

I am shocked to hear of all of these people taking days to install Linux. After a power outage crashed my hard drive, I installed RH9 and was surfing in under an hour. I did have a hard time UPDATING my driver, but I can also remember windows telling me endlessly that there was no better driver even after I told it directly were to look. It was like trying to argue with a crooked politician (I live in Louisiana so I know).
My nvidia problem was that the binutls tool did not install (did a personal install for RH). So I fixed it the M$ way, reloaded the OS. This time I ensured binutls was enabled and updated no problems.
Have all of you M$ fans forgotten the BSOD? Or how Outlook ties up the whole PC when downloading mail? If an app crash in M$, you reboot the computer to recover. I have crashed a couple of apps trying to install/improve them in Linux but the OS kept right on trucking.
Geez, if the government told you what to wear, when to wear it, and where to wear it, you would revolt! Why do you accept M$ cramming their philosophies down your throat?
The only thing that is stopping Linux from going prime time is the need for better documentation (hard copies please) in laymen's terms and games - a lot of home computers are glorified game consoles. Those are the only things. Until that happens, I will use my god given talents to learn an OS that I can control, not an OS that controls me.

Dude, you have to buy a copy to get the books SuSE's books are really cool.


Lots of trees died so I could have them... Respect.


And linux IS prime time. Has been for years. traffic to and from www.microsoft.com is routed by a linux box. nmap anyone?

Anyway, online documentation kicks butt too. MS used to supply good manuals with their DOS releases. But in an effort to make more money they stopped producing them.

That's exactly what I intend to do, but every once in awhile I like to agree with those that have had the same Linux experience that I've had. Isn't any law against that, is there?

Well, I'm sure Windows is still under development, but at least I DON'T have to be involved in the development process. I can just use the present OS as a tool, because it just works.

You've got to be kidding, right?

Think you missed the point, ...after trying three different distros, I never really got one of them to actually "WORK". Oh.... parts of it worked, but not all of it. And, yes, everything on my XP OS work just fine, and have for some time now.

No, I don't. My PC is a tool, a workstation. It's not hampered by an OS that didn't work right from the "git go", and require constant tweaking and searching the web to find people who might have problem similar to mine ---and found solutions... ---and will tell me those solutions. I do lots of things with my PC, including writing software. I need it to work in an "expected fashion", and it does. I've only installed XP Pro once, when I upgraded from ME, and only after one of the Linux distros that I tried, screwed up my master boot record, did I actually have to get the XP CD out again. (to put the boot record back to normal)

Have a nice day....

I really liked this comment

Which is why you said it in the first place. Cool dude, go use windows. And no, there is no law against trolling. You go for it.

Of course it is. You did imply that it was somehow 'above' development though, which I found amusing. And you ARE involved in the development process. If you have ever used an inital release of an MS OS you have been an unwitting BETA tester...
[*]MSDOS 6.0? sucked. had stolen IP, buggy as it gets, how many people lost entire partitions of data? fixed up for 6.2 but still a little buggy.
[*]Win 3. so crap that 3.1 was out before I even got my hands on it It wasn't an OS either, but it deserves mentioning.
[*]Win95. hahahaha... broken. eventually more or less sorted by OSR2
[*]Win98 Crap again. not so bad as the 95 debacle, but still broken. Win98SE2 was OK though.
[*]NT3 buggy. BSOD
[*]NT3.5 pretty decent, Still BSODing though. And had rollback.exe
[*]NT4 getting there. still with the old BSOD, but pretty solid, still missing PnP, SP5 made it nicer though.
[*]NT5 (W2K) Crap again. not entirely crap, but buggy behaviour, probably why they renamed it, so people would know what to expect. SP3 seemed to make it pretty good.
[*]WinME. The worst OS ever released, it was a farce. Except perhaps for DOS 6.0
[*]NT5.5 (WinXP) Shite! absolutly crap. the attempt at 9x feature emalgamation into NT was craphouse, even W2K handled DirectX better. I've heard though that the SP's make it a worthy OS.
[*]Longhorn looks like it's going to be pretty much a mac OS clone. As much as possible anyway. Well you wanted easy!!

Not in the dev process? you've never been out of it. Every first release of a version has needed massive public input to get it working right. Linux is tested by those that are willing, not the general user base.

BTW, DOS5 was the best OS that MS ever released and I used it lots. I used to say that I wrote DOS

Erm. No. _you've_ missed the point here. You have to know what your doing with S/W before you can expect to get anywhere. A programmer, like yourself, should know this.

No I got the point. You can't get Linux figured therefore it must suck. Glad you got your XP box sorted. I used to use MS S/W all the time. Never again though.

OK, so you're off using your tool Cool. I can't believe that your "writing" software yet can't make linux work though, It's not that hard...

Maybe your just using all those VB tools and such eh? You know that your probably as good a programmer as BillG is? He stole his code from trash cans, and plagiarised it.

Obviously your XPerience is a lot better than mine and everyone else who curses XP. If it works for you and yor happy then why did you try Linux in the first place? And I know it more or less works, thats the MS way too We on the other side seek perfection - things should work the way _we_ want them to.

Always do. Thanks, and you too.

Hmmmm.... what else is new.........

Another I-Love-Linux-Rep-And-If-You-Don't-You're-Wrong. Which distro do you work for?

Hee heee heee..... I have better things to do with my time besides debugging faulty operating systems.

Some of us are actually paid to develop and "deliver" applications. If I was being paid to debug Linux, that would be a job too, ....just doesn't happen to be what I want to do with the rest of my programming years.

To each his own.

Tacobill,
Either you are in serious denial or are just trying to spin everyone up. I am willing to bet is the second.
A quick question, how did that upgrade from ME to XP go? If you say flawless, everyone will know you are lieing.