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Old 01-20-2006, 08:53 AM   #1
Ha1f
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Smile Question for programmers


-->Mods, if you see it fit to move this to the Programming section, that's fine.

I've got a few questions for any one who writes code whether you're a hobbyist or a developer, a newbie or guru.

What distro or operatiing system do you write code in? Why did you choose it?

What are the advantages/disadvantages of using this OS as opposed ot others?

What type of applications do you develop? Language(s) you use?

Is any Linux distro or other operating system better for programming than the others (Please don't respond "Linux is better than Windows, unless you're going to make a consise point. Im really looking for differences in teh distros and other *nix's)?

Does your operating system lack anything that you would find beneficial to you your productivity? Does it HAVE something that does the same or counteracts productivity?

What IDE/editor do you use?

Are there applications or settings that you wish your OS had set by default to make you life (as a programmer) a bit easier?

What would be your ideal OS for programming (doesn't have to exist, just describe it)?

Any other comments about *nix development?



Thanks in advance to anyone who takes time to answer these questions.

Last edited by Ha1f; 01-20-2006 at 08:55 AM.
 
Old 01-20-2006, 10:42 AM   #2
microsoft/linux
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I prefer programming in linux, but I'm taking a class at school, so I've been doing most of my programming in Windows. I prefer CLI based programming(vim, gcc all the way!), but I'm not really sure why. I think the biggest disadvantage of programming in windows is that you have to go out and find a free compiler. Or you can buy Visual Studio, but that's expensive. AFAIK, there is not one version of linux that's better than any other, I think they all contain the basic tools necessary(gcc, etc.). As I said above, I've been programming in windows most recently, and we used Visual C++ in the class, so that's the IDE I've been using. Before I got into linux really I was using Dev C++ from bloodshed.net. I wish vim had integrated compiling options, so that I could compile and test from w/in vim as opposed to having to quit the text file, then compile, then run the executable. Linux is my favorite OS, so I guess my ideal OS would be linux.

Hope this helps
 
Old 01-20-2006, 12:07 PM   #3
Nylex
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I haven't really written much of my own stuff yet, the only real thing I have written was a complex number calculator (in C++). I was quite proud of that . Anyway, I still have lots to learn!

In answer to (some of ) the other questions:

I use Linux, purely because I've pretty much made the switch and use Linux almost exclusively now. So, it just makes sense for me to write code on Linux, instead of having to boot Windows just to code.

I don't think that one distro is gonna be better than another for programming, because you should have access to the same development tools across all distros.

As far as missing features, or features that hinder more than help.. I can't think of any to be honest.

I use Emacs to write code. I'm not a fan of vi . Anjuta is also good for me.

I don't think there could have been anything done to make it easier for me to write code, compile it and run it under Linux.

I also realise I've started too many sentences with "I" .
 
Old 01-20-2006, 03:05 PM   #4
Ha1f
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thanks guys


anyone else?
 
Old 01-20-2006, 05:05 PM   #5
SaintsOfTheDiamond
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha1f
What distro or operatiing system do you write code in? Why did you choose it?
I learned initially on Windows in school, then we moved to the Unix system on campus which is what made me want to try Linux. So I guess to answer the question ... Windows by default, Unix due to school, and Linux by choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha1f
What are the advantages/disadvantages of using this OS as opposed ot others?
Windows:
Advantages: Familiarity, availability of systems that can compile and/or run my programs is about it
Disadvantages: Nothing major other than the fact that I have to be using Windows to program.
Unix:
Advantages: Not quite sure yet since we haven't really done much that's practicle with it
Disadvantages: It's not exactly easy to get access to a Unix system at the drop of a hat.
Linux:
Advantages: Not really sure since I haven't done too much with it yet
Disadvantages: See Unix

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha1f
What type of applications do you develop? Language(s) you use?
Just simple school assignments mostly ... I've done lots of dinky little programs on my own, but nothing of much consequence yet. I'm pretty good with basic C++ programs and I know a little Java and will be working on picking Perl back up now that I've got my Linux box up and running.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha1f
Is any Linux distro or other operating system better for programming than the others (Please don't respond "Linux is better than Windows, unless you're going to make a consise point. Im really looking for differences in teh distros and other *nix's)?
My experience with Debian and Slackware is VERY VERY limited as of now, so I can't really answer that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha1f
Does your operating system lack anything that you would find beneficial to you your productivity? Does it HAVE something that does the same or counteracts productivity?
Not that I've become aware of yet, but again I'm not very advanced yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha1f
What IDE/editor do you use?
DevC++ for Windows ... still trying to find one I like in Linux. (Suggestions are more than welcome. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha1f
Are there applications or settings that you wish your OS had set by default to make you life (as a programmer) a bit easier?
See above ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha1f
What would be your ideal OS for programming (doesn't have to exist, just describe it)?
Linux. Hehe ... seriously though if I can get the program to do what I want it to with *relative* ease I'm pretty easy to please.

Hope that helps.
 
Old 01-20-2006, 11:15 PM   #6
SciYro
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...

i first started programing on the C64, sadly, my first real program was lost (before i even it was even looking like a program) when my mom threw it out cause it was a "old" computer ..... poor thing, it was such a good computer ...

in windows, programing proved to be impossible. It seemed that you had to get a compiler (borland was all i could get working, that was free....). I couldn't even get that working, programing just felt like it wasn't for windows, like no matter what i did, i was never making anything for the system, just on top of it. So i moved to basic assembly programing in windows, fearing all other languages in windows.

even out of windows, i never really made anything meaningful, i just dont have the time for big projects, so i settle for other software that i can get my hands on (which isn't that hard in Linux/BSD).

In Linux/BSD, programing is a lot better, simply because its open source, you can see how the "system" programs do things, and it just feels like it was ment for programing (unlike in windows). I usasally use a text editor (gvim), and the abumdence of CLI utils makes mass source editing a bit essayer (good thing UNIX was a text editing OS, eh?). I dont use IDE's, they always seem so hard to use, and always slowed me down. They just didn't seem the least bit intuitive (they should have a loot at ProjectCenter for GNUstep). If i could use a IDE, it would be a text editor of my choosing, a selection panel on which function to edit (or file), in a nicely place way, and integrated debuger that can track down errors to the line, as well as a compiler and tester. I guess that could be done with some scripts, but i have other things to do, and dont really need a IDE thing right now.

as stated, all Linux/BSD's are the same when it comes to programing, they all can use the same programs, so it really makes no difference. I program in C/C++, altho i have used other languages (x86 assembly, c64 basic, and some scripting languages).
 
Old 01-21-2006, 12:08 PM   #7
dogpatch
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I'm an old DOS guru, and still use DOS for most of my personal stuff, and still write DOS programs in C and Assembler, for my own personal use. I no longer write code as a livelihood.

I now run Mepis Linux, because Mepis is the only one so far that has recognized my old PnP internal modem right out of the box. Some day, i will become more Linux proficient, and will know more about loading modules, recompiling the kernel, and such. But for now, Mepis got me onto the internet, so that's what i run.

I first taught myself how to port my C programs over to Linux, to compile as cursor-based native Linux programs. Then i wrote my own cursor-based text editor and ported it over, so that i have the same tool to use in both places, and so it does what i want. Easier to do that rather than learn vim or emacs.

I've also created a process to convert my segmented memory DOS Assembler code to flat memory code, in gcc syntax.

Someday, i also hope to apply myself to start doing some serious gui programming, starting with QT, i suppose.

The advantages of Linux: it's free, there's a community of help ready and willing to assist, and it seems to have more long-range potential than anything else i've heard of. I'll never return to the world of Microsoft, for many reasons.
 
Old 01-21-2006, 01:24 PM   #8
DanTaylor
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I write in knoppix right now while i'm waiting for my debian copy to come(can't download as I'm using 56k

The advantage of this operating system is that it is extremely portable as you can boot from cd. The disadvantage is that it is unstable when you install it to the hard drive.

I mostly develop perl programs that track computer usage, or encryption programs.

The best distro is mostly just what fits your needs.

Knoppix is slow and inefficient for everyday use.

I normally just use kwrite or kedit because of their simplicity and ease of use.

Not really.

I would like an OS that would be set up totally for programming and nothing else so you wouldn't have to deal with all the little things that happen because of this.

Any other comments about *nix development?
 
Old 01-21-2006, 05:02 PM   #9
Ha1f
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thanks!

anymore?
 
Old 01-22-2006, 12:22 AM   #10
frob23
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Quote:
What distro or operatiing system do you write code in? Why did you choose it?
Mainly FreeBSD and NetBSD. I picked them because I needed a *nix flavor for my college work and I found that they best conformed to my own desires fow how a system should work.

Quote:
What are the advantages/disadvantages of using this OS as opposed ot others?
Well, it's the OS I spend nearly 100% of my computer time using. Therefore, it's what is available. I don't need to change anything to get work done. Also, all the tools I expect/desire/need are right at my fingertips. As for a disadvantage... if I do something I am really proud of, it's rarely worthwhile to people I know because it won't work on their computers. Code I create is limited to unix-like operating systems.

I haven't used Windows is so many years that I would consider myself only a user on that system and not a programmer.
Quote:
What type of applications do you develop? Language(s) you use?
Most of my "applications" are for personal use, or are small things specifically designed for a specific application. It is hard to qualify what exactly these fall under. Most are simple tools for automating routine stuff. Others are more complex tools. I rarely stray into the actual "application" field and tend to develop more along the line of specialized tools. Although a few of my projects are clearly applications aimed at an end user.

I tend to use a variety of languages based on what I am doing and how much effort I think it deserves (and how much I may need to modify it in the near future). Lisp, C/C++, sh (bourne shell), and perl probably get 95% of my programming time -- in no particular order. The other 5% is taken up by random languages. And this is not consistent either... it depends on what I am working on.

Also, since I have moved out of working with computers as a career, I have decreased my programming time signifigantly. Only occasionally taking on special projects for extra income, and more likely creating something for my personal use.
Quote:
Is any Linux distro or other operating system better for programming than the others (Please don't respond "Linux is better than Windows, unless you're going to make a consise point. Im really looking for differences in teh distros and other *nix's)?
I find that the ports system (FreeBSD) and pkgsrc (NetBSD) greatly simplify development for me. If I need something to get the job done, it's a simple command away and I can get it without breaking my chain of thought for very long. It's also very simple to drop my own applications in the framework provided by these systems to automate test builds more easily.

Quote:
Does your operating system lack anything that you would find beneficial to you your productivity? Does it HAVE something that does the same or counteracts productivity?
If I am going to use a big editor (unusual but it happens) I absolutely need better relation to documentation. One thing I love about Lisp in emacs (with slime) is that possible completions for a command -- along with a description of arguments -- can be brought up very easily.

When I am using vi, I accept it as a tradeoff for compactness. And it's not too hard to spawn a man page if I need to peek at some documentation. I find it insane that it is more complicated to get documentation working with the bigger IDEs.

This may be an outdated complaint. I haven't messed with any signifigant IDEs of late. And it's not an OS complaint as much as a *nix IDE complaint.
Quote:
What IDE/editor do you use?
For the most part I use vi[m]. Specifically when I am writing Lisp I use emacs because it has greater support for lisp -- makes things easier. I have used kdevelop in the past (and didn't find anything wrong with it... just bulky).

Quote:
Are there applications or settings that you wish your OS had set by default to make you life (as a programmer) a bit easier?
I like to roll my own environment for the most part. I prefer for the OS to include very little by default as long as it makes it easy to build a productive custom environment. This is one reason I picked the BSDs.

Quote:
What would be your ideal OS for programming (doesn't have to exist, just describe it)?
I am very content with what I currently use. I have a strong preference for programming in (and for) the *nix environment because it acts like I expect my computer to act.

Quote:
Any other comments about *nix development?
I think *nix tends to make the barrier to programming very low. Almost anyone who uses the command line for any amount of time starts creating little shell scripts to get a job done. These eventually become more complex and soon the user is looking into more powerful tools... And they already grasp a lot of the basic fundamentals of programming so these tools are a lot more approachable. This is, of course, my opinion. I was programming a few years before I found Linux but I wish I had been introduced to *nix sooner because the task would have been a lot smoother.

Last edited by frob23; 01-22-2006 at 12:31 AM.
 
Old 01-27-2006, 04:39 PM   #11
khammack
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This looks like a fun way to waste 5 minutes. ;-)

I'm not a professional programmer; I'm an engineer, so I produce hardware rather than software. But I write quite a bit of software as part of my job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha1f
What distro or operatiing system do you write code in? Why did you choose it?
Debian or derivative (Ubuntu) for desktop, but most of my engineering work is done on RHAS. I use debian whenever possible because it's easy to maintain and install software. I use RedHat (sometimes SuSE) because I use a lot of commercial apps that support only the enterprise version of Redhat.

Quote:
What are the advantages/disadvantages of using this OS as opposed ot others?
Before I tried debian my favorite distro was gentoo. Gentoo has advantages (like it's astonishingly easy to add your own packages), but it has one big disadvantage versus debian: downloading and compiling source. They may provide binary packages for everything now though, I haven't kept up since I switched to debian.

I used RedHat for 5 years in the 90's so I guess it's advantageous because it's so familiar, but really I dont' think redhat has any advantage except commercial software support. In fact RHAS has several disadvantages if you don't subscribe to their service (which we don't). I'd rather not use it unless the company is willing to pay the exhorbitant cost associated with keeping all our servers up to date.

Quote:
What type of applications do you develop? Language(s) you use?
Highly custom engineering helper apps. Special build systems (not for building software), statistics gathering and reporting (via text or web interfaces), specialized computation (for solving a specific problem, like importing data from a logic analyzer and extrapolating information from it) occasionally a device driver, etc.

I prefer Python, but occasionaly use Lisp, C, or Perl.

Quote:
Is any Linux distro or other operating system better for programming than the others (Please don't respond "Linux is better than Windows, unless you're going to make a consise point. Im really looking for differences in teh distros and other *nix's)?
If you've seen one you've seen them all. ;-) There are no substantial differences for my needs, but there are substantial portability problems. Just go to distrowatch.com, pick a library, and find out what version ships on the latest RedHat/SuSE/Debian/etc.

Basically, choosing your distro matters far less than choosing your libraries.

Quote:
Does your operating system lack anything that you would find beneficial to you your productivity?
* Evolution talks to microsoft exchange...poorly. I "upgraded" a year ago and now I can't use it to access our company's published email address book, or access my exchange calendar. I can get around it with the webmail interface, but it sucks all the same.

* Seamless interaction with microsoft netmeeting, especially desktop sharing. My company is spread across 2 geographic sites, and I work with people all the time from the other site. They have netmeeting, and use it frequently.

I should mention that my Ubuntu desktop is my only workstation at a coporation where most people use windows on the desktop, but do all of their work on redhat servers. Not to stray to far from the subject, I think the XP desktop + linux via vnc works really well, except that several times a year the XP people are dealing with virus outbreaks while I'm merrily working along.

Unless the virus outbreak happens to be bad enough that it even interrupts people like myself who aren't even using XP. Then I just go out for coffee.

Quote:
Does it HAVE something that does the same or counteracts productivity?
Even as a long time linux user, I've found Ubuntu to be surprisingly trouble free. I don't spend time thinking about it, just my work.

Same goes for redhat in a server capacity. They just sit there and do what you ask them to do. I don't have time for anything else.

Quote:
What IDE/editor do you use?
Emacs. Works on any platform, [nearly] identically.

Quote:
Are there applications or settings that you wish your OS had set by default to make you life (as a programmer) a bit easier?
Nothing comes to mind.

Quote:
What would be your ideal OS for programming (doesn't have to exist, just describe it)?
Something similar to the experience that Emacs + Slime + SBCL provides, but preferably not common lisp. As much as I love lisp, it sucks in it's own special way (which has more to do with implementation than anything inherently bad about lisp).

I'd like to see GNUStep more fully developed and have it wipe out gnome and kde which both suck. That would solve 2 problems:

* it might eliminate the awful bloat that gnome (and to a lesser extent kde) suffer from,
* it would provide better source compatibility with MacOSX (my other favorite desktop OS).

I really think GNUStep is an underutilized platform on Linux. Unfortunately, I dont' use it either. I use Gnome, because it's the default on Ubuntu and I'm too busy to futz with alternatives. I need for it to just work.

Quote:
Any other comments about *nix development?
It's fantastic for a person in my position: someone who requires lots of automation, and/or simple custom apps.

-kev
 
Old 01-27-2006, 07:17 PM   #12
sundialsvcs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ha1f
What distro or operatiing system do you write code in? Why did you choose it?
What are the advantages/disadvantages of using this OS as opposed ot others?
Usually in this business, the distro/OS that you must use to complete a particular project is already chosen, and you must adapt to it.

Quote:
What type of applications do you develop? Language(s) you use?
Is any Linux distro or other operating system better for programming than the others (Please don't respond "Linux is better than Windows, unless you're going to make a consise point. Im really looking for differences in teh distros and other *nix's)?
Ahh, young padewan, I have written commercial software in not less than twenty programming languages and, in time, so will you. Once again, the application is usually an existing one, probably much older than you are, and you must, once again, adapt to it. That software runs a business. That software cannot be "rewritten."

Quote:
Does your operating system lack anything that you would find beneficial to you your productivity? Does it HAVE something that does the same or counteracts productivity?
What IDE/editor do you use?
Are there applications or settings that you wish your OS had set by default to make you life (as a programmer) a bit easier?
It is definitely true that whenever the computer can accomplish almost any well-defined task "so that you don't have to," that is a Good Thing. Windows, for example, has some very spectacular debuggers. Delphi is a joy to use. Very-high level languages like Python can save a lot of time. But nothing takes the place of experience. Nothing takes the place of having used a tool, cool or wretched though it may be, persistently.

Quote:
What would be your ideal OS for programming (doesn't have to exist, just describe it)?
Any other comments about *nix development?
Once again, you ordinarily do not have the choice; do not have the luxury of preference. The single skill that pays off biggest in this business is adaptability. You must master the art of "hitting the ground running, and producing."
 
Old 01-29-2006, 06:30 PM   #13
victorh
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Quote:
What distro or operatiing system do you write code in? Why did you choose it?
What are the advantages/disadvantages of using this OS as opposed ot others?
I'm a civil engineer, so I have developed small applications related to Structural Engineering. I started in Windows and used heavily Visual C++ and Visual Fortran, the IDE is fine by it's quite inestable, specially when debugging. A year ago I migrate to Linux, I'm porting all my programs (almost finished ). In general, Linux is far more superior OS when developing, my days of fearing that Windows will hang when debugging or compiling are over, now I focus only on developing, my productivity has increased a lot, yep I've found the rigth place and will use Linux for the foreseeable future.
Quote:
What type of applications do you develop? Language(s) you use?
Im using Fortran 90, C/C++, also have done some bash scripting, also some Java.
Is any Linux distro or other operating system better for programming than the others (Please don't respond "Linux is better than Windows, unless you're going to make a consise point. Im really looking for differences in teh distros and other *nix's)?
This is my ranking in Linux distros
Debian
Fedora
Gentoo
SuSE
Right now I'm developing heavily in Debian and I use the default GNOME Desktop Environment, it's just an excellent combination, you just focus on programming, that's good for me. However, all the distros in my list are quite good, it's just a question of what distro you like more.
Quote:
Does your operating system lack anything that you would find beneficial to you your productivity? Does it HAVE something that does the same or counteracts productivity?
Mmmmm, one thing that always prevent me from using a language was the availability of compilers and debuggers, of course free software.
Quote:
What IDE/editor do you use?
I used Gedit and console to edit my program files and DDD for debugging. However I also like Anjuta. I used also Eclipse, it is the one I'm watching closely, If they can make it less bloated and faster
Quote:
Are there applications or settings that you wish your OS had set by default to make you life (as a programmer) a bit easier?
You can make the compilers already configured in one place so any IDE can watch them and use it. If you program in several languages you'll appreciate that.
Quote:
What would be your ideal OS for programming (doesn't have to exist, just describe it)? Any other comments about *nix development?
My ideal OS programming is Linux, if you plan to do something please do it in Linux! ... that will be an ideal world.
 
Old 01-29-2006, 07:49 PM   #14
Stack
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I am a professional engineer that develops on embedded hardware.

I develop on windows using codewright(IDE) and the tornado suite(Debugger/Compiler). The actual code i am writting is for the vxworks operating system(UNIX).

When i am working on my own personal projects i like using FreeBSD because of the amazing packadge management system and the fact that it is a whole OS not just a kernel. I also like that it follows UNIX closely and does not seem to fling the config files and applications everywhere...

The advantages of using vxworks is that it is a hard real time operating system meaning that it can be used on mission critical projects(Yes this is the simple explanation i would probably have to write another 3 pages to explain all the advantages).

I write code in C/C++ and Motorola assembler.

I find windows to be better simply because there is more software support for embedded developement. Tools like vision ICE and vision Click which allow you to debug on the hardware in real time are simply not available in Linux or *BSD. If i did not have those tools it could take me weeks to debug the problem by hand as sometimes the act of attempting to debug the code actually causes the erroneous behavior to change sending you on a wild goose chase. Not to mention the lack of any in my opinion decent IDE keeps me far far away. Especially when i am working on a projects which has >3000 files with an average of 5,000 LOC per file... In those cases it is my opinion that an IDE is a must!

Applications i wish an OS had by default would have to be a decent assembler, a good C/C++ compiler, and a good IDE. Real time debugging tools would be nice as well...
 
Old 01-29-2006, 08:55 PM   #15
R00ts
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Status/Occupation
I'm a graduate student in computer engineering, I develop high-level data analysis software at a professional company, and in my spare time I also design and program a FOSS game (see the link in my signature). I guess I'm advanced, but I wouldn't consider myself a guru just yet.


What distro or operatiing system do you write code in? Why did you choose it?
Linux almost all of the time, but sometimes in UNIX and OS X when school/work requires it. I just like to use it because I love having the power of the command line (I used to know DOS back when I was a kid, but I absolutely hated that environment).


What are the advantages/disadvantages of using this OS as opposed ot others?
Advantages: security, reliability, and flexibility. Disadvantages: less-mature IDEs.


What type of applications do you develop? Language(s) you use?
Mostly high-level command-line driven applications. I've done a little, but not much GUI programming. Although my game is understandably a visually-driven app. Languages that I use the most include C, C++, Perl, and bash (not really a language, I know). I know several other languages that I progam in less often, including Python and Java.


Is any Linux distro or other operating system better for programming than the others?
I don't feel I'm qualified to answer the question since I've never really touched Windows programming. I like having access to all of the FOSS software in Linux though, which I don't think as many other systems can vouch for.


Does your operating system lack anything that you would find beneficial to you your productivity? Does it HAVE something that does the same or counteracts productivity?
Well yeah, sometimes I wish it was easier to just get crap working. I run Debian on my desktop and Ubuntu on my laptop, and I've spent much less time dealing with problems on my laptop. However, it's a learning experience so this time isn't a complete waste.


What IDE/editor do you use?
It depends on the app. I use KDevelop for multi-file, 1000+ line professional applications, Emacs for long scripts or short programs, and nano for short scripts or configuration files.



I'm too lazy to answer the rest of your questions. It's hurting my programming productivity!
 
  


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