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Old 10-11-2005, 12:46 AM   #1
SkyEye
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Exclamation Nessus 3 to Close Source ?


I'm sure most of security professionals out there and admins in general are familiar with the wonderful, powerful, industry strength and most popular Open Source Vulnerability Scanner: Nessus. After all of these successful years I don't think Nessus needs testimonials about what it is. Truely it is one of the software which makes all its way to the hall of fame in the wide world of software.

On Wednessday, 5th Oct 2005, Renaud Deraison, the key personnel in Nessus project announced that the upcoming Nessus 3 would not be released under the GPL. However still it would be free. Renaud also clarified things a little by saying,
Quote:
Nessus 3 will be available free of charge, including on the Windows platform, but will not be released under the GPL.

Nessus 3 will be available for many platforms, but do understand that we won't be able to support every distribution / operating system available. I also understand that some free software advocates won't want to use a binary-only Nessus 3. This is why Nessus 2 will continue to be maintained and will stay under the GPL.

To make things simple :

- Nessus 2 : GPL, will have regular releases containing bug fixes
- Nessus 3 : free of charge, contains major improvements

The two versions can share most of their plugins -- we intend to maintain backward compatibility whenever possible for most vulnerability checks. Some checks will only work on Nessus 3 (ie: we are about to release a set of plugins to determine policy compliance), but the huge majority will work on either platform likewise.
We are still not aware about the license which Nessus 3 will be released under. Since Renaud talked about binary-only Nessus it seems like that it's not going to be open source anymore. Even with Nessus 2 series continued, FOSS world will feel the Nessus 3 impact. Especially when it would be like this,
Quote:
Nessus 3 is major enhancement of the key components of the Nessus engine - the NASL3 intepreter has been rewritten from scratch, the process management has changed to reduce the overhead of executing a plugin (instead of creating NxM processes, nessusd now only creates N processes), the way plugins are stored has been improved to reduce disk usage, etc...

Nessus 3 also contains a lot of built-in features and checks to debug crashes and mis-behaving plugins more easily, and to catch inconsistencies early.


As a result, Nessus 3 is much faster than Nessus 2 and less resource intensive. Your mileage may vary, but when scanning a local network, Nessus 3 is on average twice as fast as Nessus 2, with spikes going as high as 5 times faster when scanning desktop windows systems.
We still didn't hear the rationale bihind the scene, but what we feel is far from great. At least still it's free. But on the other hand it's just a beginning of a new path.

All we know is , ....
We need Nessus, and wish it to be Open.


Edit: Sorry for the typo in the title, nothing else was changed.

Last edited by SkyEye; 10-11-2005 at 04:28 AM.
 
Old 10-11-2005, 03:04 AM   #2
primo
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It's more than likely than someone will come up with an open branch based on v2, just as it happened with ssh - openssh. If it's ever released under the GPL, I don't know if v3 may use code from the new one.

Last edited by primo; 10-11-2005 at 03:05 AM.
 
Old 10-11-2005, 04:01 AM   #3
SkyEye
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Nessus 2 branch is open and readily maintained by Nessus project. I hate to think of an OpenNessus since it has always been Open. Renaud has announced that Nessus 2 would remain so (it would be so anyway because it was under an open source license). Only Nessus 3 would be closed in order to prevent commercial vendors from beating them in their own game using their own tool, like the claims "we are using customised and highly enhanced Nessus open engine in our vulnerability scanner product"

However I still won't agree about the move. Utterly hope they'll re-think about the licensing issue.

I think the idea of a fork in this case is as bad as can be. Why waste the effort and energy (in a critical and developing area such as vulnerability assessment), just re-inventing the wheel?

Nessus is a product worth more trying,... trying to keep as open source.
 
Old 10-11-2005, 09:28 AM   #4
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A "vulnerability scanner" that is, itself, a closed black-box? What good is that?

Sounds like they need to shop for a different set of venture capitalists . . .
 
Old 10-11-2005, 09:47 AM   #5
SkyEye
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I agree that being open is the best for such a tool. I also think Nessus need some backing. Ubuntu had a milionaire like Mark Shuttleworth, perhaps there's someone out there who's enthusiastic enough to give a helping hand. Or perhaps a community fund like Blender3D fund. (Just thinking aloud, since Nessus is one of my favourite tools)

This is what Renaud Deraison said about the background of their decision.
Quote:
A number of companies are using the source code against us, by selling or renting appliances, thus exploiting a loophole in the GPL.

So in that regard, we have been fuelling our competition and we want to put an end to that. Nessus 3 contains an improved engine, and we don't want our competition to claim to have improved 'their' scanner.
He also had a complaint about the FOSS community.
Quote:
Virtually nobody has ever contributed anything to improve the scanning engine over the last six years
People like NMap developer has different thoughts.
Quote:
Tenable argues that this move is necessary to further improve Nessus and/or make more money. Perhaps so, but the Nmap project has no plans to follow suit.

Nmap has been GPL since its creation more than eight years ago and I am happy with that licence.
 
Old 10-11-2005, 10:03 AM   #6
SkyEye
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Here's what Ron Gula, CTO and co-founder of Tenable Network Security, which sponsors the Nessus project had to say.

Quote:
There's a lot of different people out there with a lot of different views on it. My biggest thing that I want to do is increase the user base, and frankly, the real story is not that we are moving away from the GPL, I think the real story is we are giving away a lot more value, in terms of -- for example -- the Windows scanners which are very, very popular, and also moving Nessus into a place that it's more easily used in corporate America. We have a lot of people out there in large organizations who cannot use open source software in their organization.
Then in the same interview Renaud said,
Quote:
In that case, yes, in the sense that in the end, the people that committed anything to the engine, to improve it, were like two of us. So if there is no community, and no one touches the code, and then on the other side (there are people) who cannot use Nessus because it is open source, they can't use it on the network, then we decided it would be better to close it
This made me feel really bad. I was (and is) very enthusiastic about Nessus. I really was hoping, if I could contribute someday. And I was even starting with NASL2. But now ....anyway I'll keep up with 2 branch.

Keeping a software, open source is not bad. I know of large (very large) corporate environments (cannot disclose) who hapily use open source Nessus. Well, simply I don't buy the idea that open source would not (at all) fit to corporate environments. May be we need some more assessment work and QA stuff done. But that is not something one cannot achieve. Sorry, Ron and Renaud, I cannot agree with your decision. I wish it's still flexible.

Ron also said,
Quote:
So one of the things Tenable does, and this is one of the things that makes Nessus really popular, last year we didn't actually change anything on the Nessus code, that's the daemon, that was still GPL'd, but we made a change to the license. We basically said that the license for the plugin was separate from Nessus, and that these were updated.

And there was basically a seven-day delay for free, which was available to the world. But if people wanted the latest and greatest vulnerability checks, they had to pay for it. So, I can't really give you any names, but some of the largest managed security providers in the world, buy this from us because they in turn sell to governments and universities, you know, the latest vulnerability checks. These are for Microsoft, and for Linux, and for Mac. So there are really two parts to the Nessus license, what can I do with the actual program itself, and then what can I do with the content.
One of my friends asked me, 'so they had the plan in their mind for sometime?" I don't want to believe that.

For more information and some other insights please refer to this NewsForge article

Last edited by SkyEye; 10-11-2005 at 10:18 AM.
 
Old 10-12-2005, 09:52 AM   #7
sundialsvcs
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Well, maybe the root cause of the problem is simply competition. Maybe as more and more people are out there doing the same basic thing, they're all squeezing one-another out.

I think that we will see that this move on Nissus's part will prove to be their corporate death-knell, not the least stroke of which being how they "turned their back on GPL" to do it, then scrambled around for self-serving "justifications" to make themselves feel like they had not just made an irrevocable blunder. No one inside the company is going to disagree with the boss, of course. But, it is very hard to change the rules of the game upon which your company was founded. "Remember 'Diet Coke.'" All of those executives had utterly convinced themselves that this stuff -- which basically tasted like Pepsi -- was a great and innovative idea. All of their advisors agreed. Public relations pieces were dutifully written and published. The market, however, did not agree. A less-wealthy company would have been killed.

Maybe it was a mistake to have used GPL in the first place... hindsight 20-20 and all of that... but to have opened the door and to now attempt to shut the same door, I believe, just isn't going to work.

A network-security outfit should probably base its business model on what was done like a place like CounterPane: sell "your network is secure." It's the difference between selling burglar-alarms and selling burglar-alarm monitoring.
 
Old 10-12-2005, 10:46 AM   #8
jeremy
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My general thoughts on this are here. I agree that it's a shame to see such a useful utility go closed source and am glad to see people like Fyodor firmly stating other useful apps won't be following suit. In the end though, Tenable seems to have misunderstood the GPL, as what Renaud calls a "loophole" is actually one of the points of the GPL - to avoid vendor locking.

--jeremy
 
Old 10-12-2005, 03:12 PM   #9
bulliver
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FYI: fork of nessus 2 code is already underway. This is from FD mailing list:
Quote:
GNessUs is a GPL fork of the Nessus security scanner. As a result of
recent announcements by Tenable, we believe a fork of Nessus is required
to allow future free development of this tool.

Whilst we would like to believe that we will be able to continue to take
updates of the Nessus 2 source code from the Nessus web site we will be
endeavoring to add fresh functionality and plugins as part of the GNessUs
project. The fork will be based on the current nessus 2.2.5 packages from
GNU/Debian, the source of which can be found above in a slightly modified
form. We would welcome contact from any interested developers.

This intention to fork has come after numerous pub and work discussions
between myself and colleagues of mine from within the UK security
industry.

Cheers,
Tim
--
Tim Brown, GNessUs
<mailto:timb@gnessus.org>
<http://www.gnessus.org/>
 
Old 10-17-2005, 03:56 PM   #10
primo
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And there exists still another at http://sussen.sourceforge.net/ (nessus spelled backwards) and http://porz-wahn.berlios.de/homepage/about.php
 
Old 10-17-2005, 04:32 PM   #11
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Such big number of forks doesn't look good. We'll see how many of them will survive. I hope at least one will.
 
Old 10-17-2005, 08:25 PM   #12
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Unfortunately I think some of these are more kneejerk reactions then well thought out forks. A proper fork is going to take time, effort, dedication and a realistic plan. I have confidence that someone will do it though.

--jeremy
 
Old 10-17-2005, 09:57 PM   #13
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Thumbs up

I say good for them, If they close it and get a larger userbase because of it.. then it was a good idea. It's still free and it was already stated there was almost 0 contribution to the code. What benefit did they have to leave it open?

I work at a company that does not like OpenSource software at all. It takes an act of god and a couple of company lawyers to approve the use of opensource software. So I completely understand their point. As stated v2 is still GPL. Hit up one of the forks if you are against using closed source software.
 
Old 10-18-2005, 02:38 AM   #14
SkyEye
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By no means I take your post as offensive, trey85stang. But I'd like to add something. I'm not an anti-commercial software person. What I believe is that both FOSS and commercial (closed source) software has to be there. And I do not still agree with the Tenable's decision to close the source of the Nessus project.

One fact, I agree is that there are companies who are not so open to FOSS. But that I don't buy as a justification of closing the source. If they give it away for free without support, the companies would still have almost all the reasons not to opt for it. If they are going to provide a commercially supported version, they could do it even with the source still open.

And for the companies who say a stern "no" to open source, they really are missing something. I'm also working for (and worked for and know of) companies literally live on their information systems. But most have their share of open source software deployed throughout the corporation. Some have evaluation personnel aor R&D teams, enabling them to cut cost not the effect or productivity. Yes, there are companies who really have to use fully commerially supported products. But most of the companies out there say no to open source because they are not bold enough, mostly to migrate (for good reasons, like budget or fear: No one got fired for choosing Microsoft).

Well, you might say, "what's the point of complaining, when it is still free?"

Yes, it is free. At least for now. Just imagine that Nessus 3 catches with corporate sector really well and suddenly they decide to discontinue the free version? I call that vendor locking (not closing the loophole). This is not the whole story. As Jeremy said, running a successful FOSS project is not just having a good code, it's lot more. I'm not going to point out anymore on this matter, for it's all about Open Source philosophy.

Then again if you are not too happy about the success rate of open source products in the board room, then enter the commercial open source. Keep the source open. Sell your own with added values. This I believe is what Tenable utterly failed to do or try. They failed at value adding. And as a desparate move (as said by Renaud) they close the gate to the others.

I'm not saying that the competition for commercial open source is always fair and easy. I know it's a tough game. But I simply don't think that Tenable tried enough.

The other factor has the largest impact, or I believe so. Tenable said there was virtually no community contribution. At this time it might be true to the main engine. But about plugin writers; not all are Tenable employees. Still I agree that anyone would like to see more community contribution in core areas. Well, we could have tried a bit harder, letting people know that their support was needed than ever, before announcing "game over". One more thing is their '7 day delay for public' story. Maybe that ws just a value adding service, yet, may be .....

Anyway I still am very gratefull for Renaud and the team very much for initiating such a great product, but not for closing the source.

Last edited by SkyEye; 10-18-2005 at 02:58 AM.
 
Old 10-18-2005, 03:04 AM   #15
SkyEye
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And, about the Forks:

I agree with Jeremy and Mara.

Last edited by SkyEye; 10-18-2005 at 06:56 AM.
 
  


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