I think you are confused by the floppy boot disk.

My advice is to make a Grub floppy bootable disk. It has nothing except Grub inside and can be used to boot any system.

You are mixing it with a Linux boot disk that put a kernel inside. That is a old school and the boot disk has to be created with a "working Linux". You wouldn't have a bootinmg problem is your Linux is working, would you?

You claim both Ubuntu and Knoppix Live CD failed can you be more specific? Knoppix version V4 has Grub inside but I am not sure of the age of your version.

My last post gives you full instrcutions to use a Live CD to get inside Fedora. Would you be kind enough to do it and use Fedora to create the Grub floppy as Grub is inside Fedora?

This is a very small task.
You just boot up a Live CD, (you can use Knoppix as typing "su" in Bash can promote you to the root status)
make a temporary directory,
mount Fedora partition on it, (should be hdb1 in your case according to the last post)
do a change root,
find out the directory that has stage1 and stage2,
change directory to it
and copy the two files into a floppy by the "dd" command.

If you are to survive in Linux you need to know the simple tasks of mounting a partition and change root from one Linux to another.

You ask
and I have to repeat again and again "Grub floppy can boot any PC systems!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I have Grub booting 100+ systems (including 3 Dos, Win98, Win2k and XP, Fedora C2, C3, C4 C5, 3 to 4 versions of Ububu and and 2 versions of Knoppix).

Every one of them can be booted by the Grub floppy I kave asked you to make since Post #
--------------
Let me show the power of Grub floppy which boots up only a Grub prompt but
will display the partitioning scheme of your 2nd disk and you will find partition 0 is type 83 corresponding to your Fedora in hdb1 and partition 3 is type b (or c) corresponding to your Win98SE in hdb4.

If you want to boot WinSE and since you have XP in 1st disk these lines will do the trick
boot
These lines will boot your XP (assuming it is in the first partition of 1st disk)
These lines should boot your Fedora in hdb2 according to the info of your last thread

Knoppix 4.0 Live for dvd only on cd-r. Since no grub has been installed/used there was no /boot/grub/menu.lst
found in Fedora's subdirectory. The only there was a "splash.xpm.qz". After digging and digging and... a pair
of stage 1 and stage 2 files were finally found in "/mnt/hdb1/user/share/grub/i386-RedHat". When copied to a
floppy they were seen as "invalid startup disk". (hdb3) was unmountable since that was the swap or root. The
stage 1+2 files were copied intact since XP sees them on the floppy. But it appears that Rawrite may have to
be used to create a bootable floppy from an img image file. Fortunately a ton of those were preserved on the
XP drive along with nearly 150gb of Linux isos and other files like Fedora's own disk images.

Please don't raise my blood pressure any more.

Just do what I have told you to do in Post #7. Believe in me this once, use "dd" please.

If stage1 and stage2 can be copied would I bother to give you step-by-step instructions to create the Grub floppy? If you have done it as told you should find the floppy "blank" but bootable! The fact that you can see stage1 and stage2 with XP confirms that you have ignored the instructions given to you and copied the files in your own way.

I have never told you to mount hdb3! (hd1,3) to Grub is hdb4 in Linux. Grub always counts from 0. The 1 in hd1 means the second disk as you have given 1st disk hda to XP, remember? The 3 in (hd1,3) means the 4th partition.

Again, please follow the provided instructions. If you don't understand, please ask. Change it yourself or not following the instructions can only create more confusions and frustrations.

A way to prove if Grub is inside Knoppix 4 is click terminal and invoke a GRub shell by typing just
Please don't mix up a Grub shell with a Grub prompt. Only the latter can boot!

Show me that you are not a 12 years old and could manage to get the Grub floppy made before we reach post #50!

Before you get your blood pressure going again, relax with a free Linux antivirus download for your desktop.
http://free.grisoft.com/doc/20/lng/us/tpl/v5 With the stage 1+2 files copied to disk they can copied to any Linux folder or partition to use the appropiate commands under Linux. The Knoppix grub folder is there for a
boot of the cd if the Live disk is found unbootable. Two floppies are required and have been used for this as
of late even though there is no detected flaws with the cd-r version of the Live for dvd 4.0 version. Knoppix
has a utility built in for creating these boot disks. Assume that the grub is part of that for Live only.

Knoppix sees only three partitions on the 98SE drive. There were three Linux partitions created when using
the manual oprion to create a 1gb root, 2gb swap, and 10gb home for Core 4. Fedora partitioned and formatted
all three with it's installer. Yet two are seen. The hdb1 is apparently the home while the swap is not able
to be accessed by Knoppix. Meanwhile the stage 1+2 files for Grub4Dos are also onhand along with a download
of the entire archive there. Rawrite for Windows as well as Rawrite for dos were onhand prior to the original
goof with the XP mbr with Legacy's grub. Recognise anything here?

"BOOTLACE.COM, Grub(with an MS Dos icon), Grub.exe?

TO DO: Build for running on other DOS versions.

Usage:
GRUB [ --config-file=FILE ]

The FILE, for example, can be (hd0,0)/boot/grub/menu.lst

In CONFIG.SYS, the line looks like:

install=c:\some\where\grub.exe --config-file=FILE

If no options present, GRUB.EXE simply uses

(hd0,0)/boot/grub/menu.lst

as the configure file, if it exists.

The partition (hd0,0) can be a Windows partition or a Linux
partition, or any other partition type supported by GRUB.

Update: FILE can be the contents of a menu. Use semi-colon
to delimitate the embedded commands here in FILE. The FILE
can be enclosed with a pair of double-quotes. For example:

GRUB --config-file="root (hd0,0);chainloader +1"

If you copy Grub.exe to a 98 startup disk you could start grub.exe at the dos prompt to enter the commands is a thought that was considered since a real dos mode would be present. Both versions of stage 1+2 are now
to be tried as well as Rawrite with img files onhand. The above was an extract from the included text file
that came along with Grub4Dos.


Limitations: GRUB.EXE only runs in real mode DOS. It cannot run from a DOS
BOX inside Windows. Besides, GRUB cannot run if EMM386.EXE in
CONFIG.SYS line is loaded. Similarly it does not run if some
TSR programs is running.

Currently runs on MS-DOS 3.30, 4.0, 5.0, 6.0, 6.20. 6.21, 6.22,
7.0(Win95), 7.10(Win98), 8.0(WinME/NT/2000/XP), and
FreeDOS(build 2029 and hopefully more future builds).

Currently could not return to DOS after GRUB.EXE was started.

Copyright(C): Tinybit(tinybit@tom.com)

My blood pressure keeps going up because I already told you how to use Grub4Dos in Post #23!
I can't remember if I have given you this thread but you can find a simple application of Grub4Dos in Section C.

if you haven't mixed up /root with /boot in your Fedora and so /boot should be inside hdb4 then Grub4dos should boot up Fedora by this line when you issue it inside a Win98 directory where there is a Grub.exe

Knoppix uses (hdb2) as 2gb swap as seen when loading. Your post was #24 where the Section C refers to the use
of a single drive system in the 2004 thread. Hdb4 is 98SE. Upon entering the commands to create a boot disk while in Knoppix the "can not find file or folder error" persisted again. The only boot floppy you can make for Core 4 is the installation floppy due to the large size of this distro.

The /root is a 1gb hdb3. The 2gb swap is seen as hdb2 by Knoppix. The /boot you are referring to is hdb1. 98
is seen as hdb4. That leaves hdb0 as 89gb unpartitioned space. Fedora's home is on hdb1. The subsequent tries
at using the BASS shell to create a boot floppy produced the "file or folder not found" error. That was with
knowing "hdb1 /user/share/grub/i386-redhat" had the red hat stage 1+2 files. The next attempt will be a small
change of "GRUB> --config-file(for the lack of a name)=(hd0,3)/boot/grub/menu.lst" to see if that will be the
ticket since Linux will see itself as being on (hd0) not (hd1) after being loaded from the 98 primary on the
second drive. This is how Fedora saw itself as being on drive #0 when the XP mbr was goofed.

Look if you have found stage1 and stage2 in "/mnt/hdb1/user/share/grub/i386-RedHat" but ending up with "file or folder not found" error" then you have not followed the instruction in Post #7 which clearly asks

your change directory to this subdirectory by

Code:

cd /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc

The above is an example for searching it in Ubuntu CD. Can you not do a
(1)
The command "dd if=stage1 of=/dev/fd0 bs=512 count=1" means the input file is stage1 and so it must be available at the directory from which you issue the command.

(2)
If you are lazy, stubborn and unwilling to change the directory then you have to change the two dd commands to
Do it either way but please don't raise my blood pressure.

-------------

Don't change the suggested command by altering the (hd1,3) to (hd0,3) in Grub4Dos, unless you know what you are doing!
The hard disk (hd0), (hd1) etc are "absolute" and established by the PC Bios according to the electrical connection points of the IDE cables. In changing it as proposed you would instruct Grub4Dos to search the 1st bootable disk, which you have confirmed in the past to be the XP disk. You only do it "if FC was installed as the 1st bootable disk(hd0) and XP disk was temporarily made a slave".

Can you invoke a Grub shell after "chroot" to Fedora and confirm the present disk order as follow?
From the information reported by Grub you should know exactly how Linux now sees the disk order in your PC. By counting the number of partition and searching partition ID 7 (for NTFS) you should be able to tell which is (hd0).

Regarding if Fedora may have been installed while you might have messed around the disk booting order different to the present situation you can do a check by listing out the file /boot/grub.device.map. This device.map is the true record of the disk order of Fedora when it was installed.
Please frozen the disk order and no more messing around! Use Grub to do it.

GRUB> geometry (hd1)
Drive 0x81: CHS=1024/255/63, sectors=234375000, lba
Partition Number: 0, Filesystem Type is ext2fs, Partition Type 0x83
Partition Number: 1, Filesystem Type unknown, Partition Type 0x82
Partiton Number: 2. Filesystem Type unknown, Partition Type 0xc
Partition Number: 3, Filesystem Type FAT, Partition Type 0xe
----------------------------------------------------------
Booting Fedora at (hdb,1)
ERROR 25: error while parsing number
ERROR 8: Kernel must be loaded before booting

The disk order has been "frozen" since the drives have never been moved around. Only the XP drive was to see disconnection while the second Fedora installation without Legacy's Grub was in progress. That will occur at the time the ubuntu installation takes place once the present Core 4 installation is known to be working. 98
on the other hand has had a few issues with 2gb of ram installed along with a network detection error that is
preventing a boot to the desktop at present. But that's nothing new for 98! Edits of the system.ini have been
worthless when booting from a floppy since Windows is not in operation for that as well as editing the reg.
There is one note however. Grub did manage to load XP while still in dos on the second drive.

Have you made a Grub bootable floppy yet or not ?

Did you get the errors from a Grub shell? Or did you boot it with Grub4dos?

I told you in Post #33 that in a Grub shell you can't boot a system because a Linux has been loaded already.

A bootable Grub floppy gives you a Grub prompt and has no system loaded so that you can choose any one to boot.

OK your (hd1) now confirms Fefora is in hdb1, hdb2 is the swap, hdb3 is Fat32 (can be Type 0xc or 0xb) and hdb4 is Fat16 (LBA mode).

Since you can access the files of Fedora can you list its content of

(1) /boot/grub/menu.lst (contain the Grub instructions how it was booted originally)
(2) /boot/grub/device.map (contains the disk order recorded when Fedora was installed)
(3) /etc/fstab (contains the files Fedora must loaded when booted)

With a Grub floppy boot to a Grub prompt your Fedora can be booted by
or
which list the Grub instructions on the screen. You can then follow the instruction to boot it manually, starting with the "root" statement, then "kerenel" and finally the "initrd" statement. Each time Grub will respond and no warning means it is working. Fedora will fire up if you add this line after the "initrd" statement
The disk order can still be upset if you add a disk or withdraw a disk in the front or in the middle of a booting queue.

Ubuntu Live has a "mkboot" utility which wrote "something?" to a floppy that was unbootable. Upon bootup the
next screen stated: "This method is no longer supported.". Administrator's access not available for a glance
at a working BASH shell to attempt the manual commands. Yet "grubfloppy" was an item mentioned in ubuntu's own help file. Ubuntu did offer an install to hard drive option. But an installer on another cd-r awaits the
Core 4 results. Knoppix also offered a similar tool. Hdb3 was listed as 0xE with the lower case. A drawback
here has been with getting either distro to create a working boot floppy as well as using rawrite on certain
img images downloaded. The img images only resulted in installer floppies.

Mepis, Gentoo, both Live cds, and FreeDos are left as well as picking through some other downloaded files on
storage for the moment on the XP drive. Slackware isos along with dmmsmall are present including puppy files.
FreeDos bootcd iso was written to cd-r already. Now that a floppy drive has been replaced as well as a batch
of Phillips 30pack floppies these others can be attempted.(after a good 8 hour nap that is.)

I am now convinced that you will never be able to make a Grub floppy even after passing Post #50 because you insisted on using "mkboot", "Rawrite"... which I didn't advise you to but ignore the "dd" commands which I gave you since Post #7.

Can we cut the loss and try something easy for a change?

Here is my proposal

(1) Plug your XP disk as a slave so that it is tempoarary unbootable because hdb replaces it as the master and the first bootable disk. The previous hdb should then be known as hda in LInux.

(2) Install Puppy into Fdeora's partition (assumpting you have no usable data inside Fedora) and let Puppy install its Grub into the MBR which is always on the first bootable disk. You XP is therefore safe and untouched.

(3) Boot up Puppy, confirm you can see its menu, pressing "c" at the menu can get you a Grub prompt. To boot back to Puppy again you type at Grub prompt
(4) Edit Puppy's /boot/grub/menu.lst to ensure the following lines are there for booting XP
Report that both Puppy and XP boot and you can use a Grub prompt with Puppy.

There is no insistance on rawrite or mkdisk. But so far the "dd" commands have been ineffective with distros
available here. Unfortunately the puppy files mentioned earlier are only the JIGDO files without any iso disk
images to work with. Ubuntu, Gentoo, and Mepis would not create separate partitions when the installer was an
alternative to add another distro onto the drive. Instead those would have reformatted the entire drive with
their own installers. Thinking back now the download from the (ssslowwww)servers was the reason why the first
downloads were then switched to the other distros. The question now remains as how to make a grub floppy with
no Linux distro up and running? Can Can MS Dos, Windows 3.1, 95, or 98 be used? Or Which distro would be the
best for this? The Grub4Dos files were complete when downloaded along with NTFS4Dos.

I wrote last night this thread advising users how to put Grub into an existing data-only primary directory.

If you run Grub4Dos I believe it will search your disk to find a Grub to load too.

The problem here is that the 2gb Fat16 primary on the second drive already has 98 on it. The
concern about losing 98's mbr is no big issue, however, since it barely runs on a system with
more then 512mb of ram installed(2 1gb dimms of Kingston KVR400X64C3AK2/2G to be exact). The
MS Dos prompt won't even open. Adding to that the recent placement of the Audigy 2 ZS Gamer
for the Audigy 4 Pro no longer provides sound for 98SE let alone Linux. Knoppix Live for dvd
readily named off the detected hardwares by name. But no sound yet. That will be another item
when Core 4 is finally running to deal with after. The link you provided described the use of
a totally different live distro used as well. The "boot\grub\" directory containing the G4Dos
stage 1+2 files has been made with those now in it on the 98 primary. Another Live cd distro
is now being sought since the previous failed when trying to use commands.

Knoppix Live will be kept while ubuntu, Gentoo, and Mepis distros could be installed to the
98/Linux slave drive. Knoppix will allow access to all partitions when files need copying. A
new live cd will be tried to get grub into 98's mbr if nothing else is found for creating the
preferred grub boot floppy. Remember since 98 has issues the 2gb Fat16 partition can be wiped
to run even Windows 3.1 on it that has "no problems" with 2gb of ram. 95 might run into the
same issues as 98 did. Core 4 could ne reinstalled with a larger 50gb home while XP creates a
new 60gb partiion for the remaining space as a means of backing up the volume of space being
used to store the Linux files on the XP master drive. Fedora would then install it's own WIN
Legacy Grub at that time. But the primary would be disconnected at that point in order to not
see the repeat of the initial installation. But that's a last resort.

You wouldn’t allow the MBR of your XP the first disk to be touched.

Now you wouldn’t allow the MBR of your Win98 in the second disk to be touched

Can you tell us where you propose to boot up your Linux from?

Please do not mix the hardware problem with your booting problem as nobody can solve them simultaneously.

Can we concentrate on booting Fedora?

Can we worry about the sound in Fedora after we can boot it?

Which one do you want us to solve first, you sound problem in Win98 or the booting problem of Fedora?

Why confuse us with this issue?

Why can’t you make it simple of tackling one problem at a time?

Then can you proceed to install Grub in the Win98 partition?

Your Win98 is in hdb3 right? So boot up a Live CD, Ubuntu or Knoppix, invoke a Grub shell and set up Grub in hdb3

Grub in there can only boot if the partition is active and you have a mechanism to to boot hdb before the first bootable disk but still able to keep the disk oder unchanged. This normally requires a working Grub which you haven't got. So the above effort is potentially fruitless.

No matter which distro you use the commands are the same. You are better of to learn it from one Live CD than chasing around different CDs. Like stage1/stage2 are available in Knoppix, Ubuntu and Fedora but you can't even copy them onto a floppy since Post #7. dd command is available in every distro in your possession.

What make you think by

(1) Erase Win98 and reinstalling Win3.1
(2) Installing Fedora into a new 50Gb space
(3) Using XP to create a new 60gb partition for backing up files
(4) Disconnection the primary drive

are relevant and can solve your booting problem?

When you can’t even copy two Linux files on to a floppy since Post #7.


Like I have mentioned earlier you never follow the advice we give you. There is no point in persisting with this thread because no progress can be made.

I am asking you to get your Grub floppy made for the last time.

In Post #32 you reported

Can you return to that position, pop a floppy into the drive and make a bootable floppy with these two lines of commands?

Please do nothing else except concentrating on make a tool to boot all your systems.