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I found Etch to be quite good. I think it's still one of the only distro's where you can install a minimum base install for a server, without everything else you don't need. The biggest consideration in regards to Debian, is the fact that the installer works exactly the same on all architectures. This was one of the reasons for the delay and it's great to know that things can work on multiple platforms\architectures.
I find the fact that Debian uses the Social Contract and it's philosophical 'true' open commitment that draws many people to using it.
Considering many distributions are based on Debian, must mean it's stability and it's base is the best option around..
the problem is if they are giving you the option to load a desktop you should have the option of WHAT desktop you want. For those of us that like KDE it's annoying. And there are those in other forums that have expressed this very same gripe. I thought that was clear.
They do. They offer various CDs. Get the KDE cd and you are golden. Use the current set you have now to roll-your-own KDE cd with jigdo. You can also choose not to install anything and afterwards install kde. You should iirc also be able to start the installer with install tasks=kde-desktop How many different ways do you want something? How many desktops can they fit on a cd.
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Also, no I do not use grub. Never have. That WAS lilo. And it's a reproducable problem for me. Loading either lilo or grub to the mbr of hdb is useless either way since the system boots from the mbr of hda.
okay. Is this during the install? How did you get it to use lilo? I thought grub was default and that was that. I cannot remember exactly what it asked when I installed - but either way I just let it do its thing and it was fine. Always is for me at least.
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But these setup issues are a stinker. Not a pain just annoying.
I dont see many people bringing these issues up so I am not sure how common they are.
When the screen comes up that says "Desktop", if you don't want Gnome ... Deselect "Desktop." When the other stuff finishes, reboot, log in as root, and ... # aptitude install xserver-xorg-core xserver-xorg xorg kde-core kdm
Do you have gtkam or something similar installed? If it only works as root, that's another issue.
Sound should not be an issue ...
# aptitude install alsa-base alsa-utils
# alsaconf
Thanks much, rickh. Those two commands did the trick.
I know this thread isn't for troubleshooting so I will post threads for the other issues, if needed.
Did an install of etch last week on a friends computer, used the kde cd from the debian site.I always use the text install so can't say much about the graphical installer.I set up all multimedia and codecs the o/s is as snappy as hell, really fast! and he ( being a windows user) was amazed at all the programs and the speed/stability of Debian linux.I'm running etch myself with gnome and kde installed and will soon be pointing apt at the lenny sources !!!Well done Debian team.
They do. They offer various CDs. Get the KDE cd and you are golden. Use the current set you have now to roll-your-own KDE cd with jigdo. You can also choose not to install anything and afterwards install kde. You should iirc also be able to start the installer with install tasks=kde-desktop How many different ways do you want something? How many desktops can they fit on a cd.
okay. Is this during the install? How did you get it to use lilo? I thought grub was default and that was that. I cannot remember exactly what it asked when I installed - but either way I just let it do its thing and it was fine. Always is for me at least.
I dont see many people bringing these issues up so I am not sure how common they are.
First when you buy you're cd's from a vendor you are stuck with what they offer. So no option for a KDE cd. And as I said with a dialup connection downloading the kde cd is a moot point. I know about jigdo, but I have to INSTALL the system first to use it. And I also said I DID go in and install kde after. THAT IS NOT THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE!
As far as installing lilo, use expert install. Gives the option to install grub or lilo. I always do expert installs. And since they offer to install grub or lilo why not offer to install Gnome or KDE. like you said it's not a hard configuration.
Just putting another thing in here...I find Debian very, very customizable. Much more than any other distro I've used. I like complete control. ;-)
Now THAT I totally agree with. Mandrake helped me to learn Linux ins and outs as a newbie, but when I did I turned back to Debian to have full control.
I'm a long time Debian user, I switched to Ubuntu during the long wait for Etch just so I could see what all the hype was about. It's a very tidy distribution, however I prefer Debian's flexibility.
SO. With elation I recieved Etch in the mail yesterday, and while installing it made the following observations:
1) The graphical installer makes nothing easier, only slightly more aesthetic (in fact there are MORE questions to answer than for Sarge)
2) The number of packages installed by default is beyond a joke
3) I have no sound
4) I have no WiFi
5) It takes 45 minutes (not really) to get my cursor from one side of the screen to the other using the touchpad
6) My screen resolution is set wrong and I have black bars
Also:
7) Renaming the Mozilla suite makes the Debian developers go from looking like a group of professionals to a group of squabbling babies. WHY could they not have been the 'bigger man' in this debacle, made Epiphany the default browser, and left Firefox out altogether? It's not like people can't download it themselves. Pathetic.
8) What the hell is the point in a distribution consisting of 3 DVDs? I thought 2 was bad enough. I have 3 DVDs full of software, most of which will be outdated in a few months given the pace of development in the OSS community, and the rest of which I will never use. Not only that, but for all this vast amount of software, LESS works out of the box than Ubuntu, which (as a distribution) is 1/22nd the size of Debian Etch. Is it not enough to have even just a single DVD with all the core packages, and allow people to download the rest from repositories where it is always going to be current (yes I am aware of the NetInstall option, that's beside the point)? Is it too much to assume that people have an internet connection these days - that, by the way, is not a rhetorical question. When answering the package management questions during install I was asked to choose an internet connection, one of which was a Firewire port (who the hell connects to the net via FW?? Just because it's possible doesn't mean you should list it as an option) and the other my actual Ethernet card, neither of which were connected to the internet. I wasn't given an option to specify that I didn't have an internet connection (yet) and I found it unreasonably onerous to continue without specifying a valid one - if the assumption is that people invariably have internet connections in the year 2007, why include so much software in the distribution?
I know I will have everything running smoothly soon and I hate to be so critical of my (still) favourite distribution, but god what an anti-climax. There has been a huge amount of good work done but I'm sure people were expecting more from these guys after such a long wait. Ubuntu raised the bar for desktop Linux and Debian has failed to clear it.
What do you guys think??
I think you know a lots more about Debian than I ever will but one thing we both know is that internet connection on Etch is needlessly fussy and that seems odd on recalling how Sarge and Debian derived distributions - say, Xandros or Suse - have straightforward ASDL or dial up items on their menus. It's not just you and I who find the mucking about a bind: for example, AlanL - on another thread of this site - has been trying to get his browser to connect to sites for days.
I think you know a lots more about Debian than I ever will but one thing we both know is that internet connection on Etch is needlessly fussy and that seems odd on recalling how Sarge and Debian derived distributions - say, Xandros or Suse - have straightforward ASDL or dial up items on their menus. It's not just you and I who find the mucking about a bind: for example, AlanL - on another thread of this site - has been trying to get his browser to connect to sites for days.
Frommacau
I run ADSL on my computers. I have never had issues with getting an Internet connection in any version of Debian I've used.
I have read that some people are having issues with getting wireless to work.
Just so everyone knows, I have had everything working perfectly on Etch for a while now and I'm loving it. I definately think that there are areas to work on (hardware detection being one of these) but otherwise it is brilliant.
One thing that frustrates me though is these damn UK cable modems locking themselves to a particular MAC address. This frustrated me for ages (thinking it was the distribution) and alarmed me when I discovered what it really was... who the hell do these people think they are trying to remove secondary markets for totally re-usable electronics? At lease I assume that's what they're trying to do...
That's not just a UK thing, I think it's pretty standard everywhere cable modems exist. For users with multiple computers, the typical solution is to use a router and configure MAC spoofing. To the outside world, the router mimicks the MAC address of the computer which is "officially" supported by the cable company. On the inside of the LAN, the router uses its own MAC address to ensure that the mimicked computer is still usable.
Etch, at least for me, was doomed from the start. I had used Potato, Woody, and Sarge for years. For some ridiculous reason, I decide to move to etch, even though Sarge was working, with a few idiosyncracies quite nicely. I downloaded all iso's using jigdo. No problem. I realized they were only the release candidate, not the final version, so I decided to update the templates and jigdo files themselves, and then use the updated material to freshen the iso's, but deleted the iso's instead. I tried to upgrade using apt, but was left with an unworkable machine. I decided to try a netinstall. The system was not as reliable as the old Sarge. At some point I decided that the headache was not worth the effort right now. I'll try again at some point, but right now am too busy with work.
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